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#51 18-04-06 21:38:55

dth-adi
Verified Member
Registered: 19-09-04
Posts: 1,402

Re: Continued Professional Development

Mr B - no they can't. Or at least they would be limited to an extent that would strangle their business

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18-04-06 21:38:55

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Re: Continued Professional Development




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#52 18-04-06 21:40:29

Jed
Guest

Re: Continued Professional Development

I can understand that gas fitters and sparkies need to keep up to date and check their work because their environments change very quickly.

Doesn't ours then?

No.    But of course if you can give us some examples.................


The fact that the checktest is not doing the job is due to the failing standards agency, not us.  Who's to say they aren't going to b ugger up CPD just as inefficently?


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#53 18-04-06 21:42:21

MrBassMan
Verified Member
From: Ceredigion, West Wales
Registered: 10-05-04
Posts: 669
Website

Re: Continued Professional Development

Mr B - no they can't. Or at least they would be limited to an extent that would strangle their business

So they can !

Not doing CPD is bad for business, we know that, but that should be our choice we should not be forced into it.


Learn 2 Pass
Driving lessons in and around Ceredigion in West Wales  http://www.L2P.co.uk

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#54 18-04-06 21:45:00

Jed
Guest

Re: Continued Professional Development

Not doing CPD is bad for business, we know that,

I've managed 20 years without doing it, so it hasn't been bad for me big_smile


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#55 18-04-06 21:47:11

MrBassMan
Verified Member
From: Ceredigion, West Wales
Registered: 10-05-04
Posts: 669
Website

Re: Continued Professional Development

Not doing CPD is bad for business, we know that,

I've managed 20 years without doing it, so it hasn't been bad for me big_smile

So you have never attended a meeting, sat in on a test, looked at driving websites?

Of course you have - that is all relevant CPD.


Learn 2 Pass
Driving lessons in and around Ceredigion in West Wales  http://www.L2P.co.uk

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#56 18-04-06 21:51:31

Jed
Guest

Re: Continued Professional Development

Aye, plenty.   But that isn't proper CPD.   The real stuff costs money and you get certified at the end.

#57 18-04-06 21:56:31

MrBassMan
Verified Member
From: Ceredigion, West Wales
Registered: 10-05-04
Posts: 669
Website

Re: Continued Professional Development

It's good enough for those plumbers and electricians, they just need to keep a record of it all and present the log to get their "I've done CPD" badge.


Learn 2 Pass
Driving lessons in and around Ceredigion in West Wales  http://www.L2P.co.uk

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#58 18-04-06 22:00:14

dth-adi
Verified Member
Registered: 19-09-04
Posts: 1,402

Re: Continued Professional Development

The problem with these discussions is that some people have a 'dog in a manger' attitude.

They believe their driving is still at a good standard but have never put it to the test for reasons of fear, lack of funds, lack of interest or combinations of all of these and more.

I have much experience of the sort of things ADIs have or haven't covered, done or haven't done for pupils who have subsequently been with me for even an hour or two.

If an ADI hasn't opened his/her horizons it is impossible for them to know just how dire some of them are out there and I'm not referring to anyone on this forum.

Equally, I don't pretend I'm perfect but some of the things I know go on are a disgrace to the profession.

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#59 18-04-06 22:02:15

Jed
Guest

Re: Continued Professional Development

They believe their driving is still at a good standard but have never put it to the test for reasons of fear, lack of funds, lack of interest or combinations of all of these and more.

So you are advocating a driving test be included in CPD?

Will that have a pass/fail element?

#60 18-04-06 22:12:05

dth-adi
Verified Member
Registered: 19-09-04
Posts: 1,402

Re: Continued Professional Development

What I'm saying is that there are a large number of ADIs whose driving is appalingly sub-standard in terms of what their skills should be given they are regarded as being experts by the buying public. They believe, however, that their skills are good but have never had them validated in any way. They simply think that having passed Part 2 x or y years ago, their driving must still be good now. It doesn't necessarily follow and in some instances definitely doesn't follow.

A good example today; large school car parked 2/3 feet from the kerb on a road that is quite narrow anyway making traffic have to wait to pass when a proper park required by the pupil would have resolved it. As it was, the situation was a very bad advert for the school in question. Often ADIs who only teach learners and never have their skills validated, lapse into the learners environment and fail to recognise their faded skills.

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#61 18-04-06 22:22:01

Silvercar
Verified Member
Registered: 19-08-04
Posts: 327

Re: Continued Professional Development

What I'm saying is that there are a large number of ADIs whose driving is appalingly sub-standard in terms of what their skills should be given they are regarded as being experts by the buying public. They believe, however, that their skills are good but have never had them validated in any way. They simply think that having passed Part 2 x or y years ago, their driving must still be good now. It doesn't necessarily follow and in some instances definitely doesn't follow.

A good example today; large school car parked 2/3 feet from the kerb on a road that is quite narrow anyway making traffic have to wait to pass when a proper park required by the pupil would have resolved it. As it was, the situation was a very bad advert for the school in question. Often ADIs who only teach learners and never have their skills validated, lapse into the learners environment and fail to recognise their faded skills.


So what about people like me that keep their driving to the upmost but would not let some part time "observer" critique my driving. I would rather show it to the DSA however that would only encourage them to bring in requalifying. I have seen the type of thing you mention above and personally I would rather commit hari kari than be associated with examples like the above. I keep my driving to a high standard because I take pride in what I do and also it makes teaching correct procedure more easy. However In my experience around my neck of the woods such ADI's are in the minority. Why should I pay for the sins of my brother ADI.

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#62 18-04-06 22:35:42

dth-adi
Verified Member
Registered: 19-09-04
Posts: 1,402

Re: Continued Professional Development

However In my experience around my neck of the woods such ADI's are in the minority.

Well, that seems to confirm what I said earlier.

As far as the IAM or RoSPA is concerned, some of these 'observers' can teach some ADIs a thing or two from what I've seen. But do you assume that these 'amateurs' will be the ones that validate your skills if those organisations are a CPD option?

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#63 18-04-06 22:41:13

Silvercar
Verified Member
Registered: 19-08-04
Posts: 327

Re: Continued Professional Development

However In my experience around my neck of the woods such ADI's are in the minority.

Well, that seems to confirm what I said earlier.
But do you assume that these 'amateurs' will be the ones that validate your skills if those organisations are a CPD option?


So the UNQUALIFIED validate the QUALIFIED something not quite right DTH who the hecks checking these people. Personally I have never liked the ROSPA or roadcraft system of driving or so called advanced I'm a purist.  ;D

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#64 18-04-06 22:44:45

luchell
Guest

Re: Continued Professional Development

Please remember we have observers that are part of this forum. By all means state your views but bare that in mind.

#65 18-04-06 22:49:24

blindspot
Guest

Re: Continued Professional Development

The geezer who did my last RoSPA update was no partime observer. He was a highly qualified Police Class 1 Driver/ Instructor.  He gave me invaluable advice and although I thought my driving was good, above average even, he unearthed several little areas for improvement.

You never stop learning in my opinion and the best way to learn is to have someone else look at what you are doing.

Also without periodic assessment standards slip bit by bit often unnoticed and bad habits creep in shortcuts are taken and skills go stale.

This human factor is noted by all the significant professions and continuous development and update is taken by all of them.

Why are some ADIs so arrogant that they feel that they are above all this and are always perfect. Without referring to anyone on this forum of course!

B'spot

#66 18-04-06 22:49:47

luchell
Guest

Re: Continued Professional Development

Just to add im also a fan of the dsa way of doing things. I have done the Iam a long while ago and i must admit my observer was very good, i hadnt long passed my L test and she was brilliant and a pleasure to be 'observed by' and it was free! Brill stuff. However yes i suppose it must feel a little awkward being supervised by someone who is not an Adi, i suppose you need to be prepared to become a little humble as the shoe is on the other foot so to speak. This could be very hard for some, personally i would rather combine my thoughts with my 'observer' and share in others knowledge than dismiss it but thats me lol

#67 18-04-06 22:52:59

dth-adi
Verified Member
Registered: 19-09-04
Posts: 1,402

Re: Continued Professional Development

Do you really think the DSA would let an 'amateur' observer from the IAM or RoSPA validate a qualified ADI for CPD?

Perhaps some personal CPD investigations into what these organisations have to offer and how they do it would open up the horizons I mentioned.

Which is exactly what I said earlier. wink

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#68 18-04-06 22:58:55

blindspot
Guest

Re: Continued Professional Development

""Who's to say they aren't going to b ugger up CPD just as inefficently?""

Which doesnt mean what you meant it to mean.

If you mess something up properly you mess it up efficiently   ;D

B'spot


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#69 18-04-06 23:19:18

Silvercar
Verified Member
Registered: 19-08-04
Posts: 327

Re: Continued Professional Development

Do you really think the DSA would let an 'amateur' observer from the IAM or RoSPA validate a qualified ADI for CPD?

Perhaps some personal CPD investigations into what these organisations have to offer and how they do it would open up the horizons I mentioned.

Which is exactly what I said earlier. wink

Well either their is a book standard of driving or it's purely subjective. I know that I implement the book I teach it and drive by it. It's the subjective that bothers me when it comes to letting so called "observers" give their tuppence worth on my driving these things are a matter of opinion. Besides this my driving is of sufficent standard to do my job as an ADI. I'll leave Phd's in driving to the "experts".  wink

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#70 19-04-06 05:30:38

pegasus
Verified Member
From: north west
Registered: 25-02-05
Posts: 3,303

Re: Continued Professional Development

Hi silvercar

Well either there is a book standard of driving or it's purely subjective.

The testing of the standard of someones driving is always going to be subjective, so long as the books contain words like reasonable, suitable etc. After all, they don't contain detailed instructions on how to do very much, what they do contain is guidance.

It can only be a totally objective test if every possible combination of circumstances is catered for and detailed instructions given to deal with each and every one of those variation jointly and severally.

Taken to the extreme even parking could only be judged by using a measurement to assess the accuracy.

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#71 19-04-06 06:05:43

MrBassMan
Verified Member
From: Ceredigion, West Wales
Registered: 10-05-04
Posts: 669
Website

Re: Continued Professional Development

The problem with these discussions is that some people have a 'dog in a manger' attitude.

They believe their driving is still at a good standard but have never put it to the test for reasons of fear, lack of funds, lack of interest or combinations of all of these and more.

Are you including me in that comment - if so I would gladly PM you the reasons why you are wrong.

However, you are probably right in your statement when applied to all ADIs. But what business is that of yours?

Why should they be forced to go back to school to learn a job they have been doing for years? or have recently finished training for? OK, they may be able to do better but so could we all - even after CPD.


Learn 2 Pass
Driving lessons in and around Ceredigion in West Wales  http://www.L2P.co.uk

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#72 19-04-06 06:13:44

MrBassMan
Verified Member
From: Ceredigion, West Wales
Registered: 10-05-04
Posts: 669
Website

Re: Continued Professional Development

Do you really think the DSA would let an 'amateur' observer from the IAM or RoSPA validate a qualified ADI for CPD?

Perhaps some personal CPD investigations into what these organisations have to offer and how they do it would open up the horizons I mentioned.

I did this and I was very disappointed with what I was being told to do, or rather not to do in relation to signalling. (Not signal when approaching a roundabout). Other things I was told to do with the gearbox flew in the face of eco-driving. The skill level of the observers I had was not good. I am not saying all observers are, I am just commenting on my experiences.

Did I benefit from the experience - Yes!

Could I have continued with my job as a competent ADI without doing it - Yes!


Learn 2 Pass
Driving lessons in and around Ceredigion in West Wales  http://www.L2P.co.uk

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#73 19-04-06 06:36:25

blindspot
Guest

Re: Continued Professional Development

""However, you are probably right in your statement when applied to all ADIs. But what business is that of yours?""

Anything that affects the public perception of a profession is the business of ALL the members of that profession.

There is a row going on at the moment in my city between the residents in a certain area and ADIs and the local press is involved.

There is a bunch of idiot ADIs, mostly PDI and newly qualified,  who use a particular test route zone for practising TIR and PP. 

At times there are up to four cars all doing simultaneous manoeuvres in a cul-de-sac about 200 metres long.

When asked to cool it a bit by the residents they give abusive replies and make stupid statements about public roads etc.

As a result of this brainless activity and the ensuing publicity all ADIs here are experiencing a resentful attitude from the public.

Who do we blame for this ?

First of all the stupid ADIs who are supposed to be teaching people to drive in such a way as to minimise inconvenience to other road users.

Secondly the ADI trainers who are so engrossed in PSTs that they ignore the wider world of driving.

Third the DSA who dont have a means of instant communication with ADIs (except for email which they dont use effectively enough yet).

What has this got to do with CPD?  Everything in my book.  Behaviour by ADIs as described above is unprofessional and can easily be addressed by inclusion basic training and CPD training

B'spot


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#74 19-04-06 06:43:17

MrBassMan
Verified Member
From: Ceredigion, West Wales
Registered: 10-05-04
Posts: 669
Website

Re: Continued Professional Development

What has this got to do with CPD?  Everything in my book.  Behaviour by ADIs as described above is unprofessional and can easily be addressed by inclusion basic training and CPD training

I am afraid I disagree with this statement - A trained idiot is still an idiot. Send him on as many courses as you like and he will act in his nature in a pressure situation.

You said yourself these were mostly PDIs, this behaviour is indicative of a poor ADI selection and training system rather than anything else.


Learn 2 Pass
Driving lessons in and around Ceredigion in West Wales  http://www.L2P.co.uk

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#75 19-04-06 07:21:48

Jed
Guest

Re: Continued Professional Development

What I'm saying is that there are a large number of ADIs whose driving is appalingly sub-standard in terms of what their skills should be given they are regarded as being experts by the buying public.

Is here any evidence to back this up, or is it just yet more propaganda and assumptions from DSA?

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