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#1 08-03-04 23:35:04

jonks
Guest

Learner fined after fatal crash

I have been looking through some news archives on the BBC news website and I came accross this...

See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/linc … 164261.stm

Is it just me or am I right to think that the Instrucor is responsible for safety whilst teaching?

How can someone on his fifth lesson be charged with driving without due care and attention?

Whilst sad that the instructor died, can any accident in a dual controlled car really be blamed on the pupil?

Perhaps I am wrong, I would like to hear your opinions .

08-03-04 23:35:04

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Re: Learner fined after fatal crash




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#2 08-03-04 23:54:30

DSE
Verified Member
From: North East England and Scotlan
Registered: 03-03-04
Posts: 113
Website

Re: Learner fined after fatal crash

In law the driver of any vehicle has responsibility and will be the person charged with any offence committed.  A person supervising a learner driver can be charged with aiding and abetting that offence. (Whether or not the vehicle has dual controls)

Of course in this case the instructor did not survive so we will never know if he would have faced such charges himself.

As regards the tyre problem, the instructor has a moral and a professional responsibility to ensure his car is safe and roadworthy but in law the ultimate responsibility is with the person sitting behind the wheel.

As this poor instructor was killed and is not here to defend himself it would be unfair, and I see no point in discussing the rights and wrongs of his actions or look to aportion any blame. We should all just learn from it and do all we can to keep ourselves and our pupils safe on the road.


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#3 09-03-04 00:05:10

pageant
Guest

Re: Learner fined after fatal crash

Interesting one. I'm not certain but I believe the driver always has to be held accountable in some way but a supervising passenger(i.e. instructor) is equally liable to prosecution for aiding and abetting if not carrying out their supervisory role with due diligence. In this instance the instructor tragically died therefore the learner was the only person open to punishment. The penalty for him was actually fairly light and I would suspect this was due to the blame for the accident being considered lagely if not wholly resting on the instructor's shoulders. Seems a little unfair on the learner of course to suffer the psychological scars of both the accident and being held accountable in some way for it for it. There was probably not enough evidence to totally remove blame from him.

#4 09-03-04 00:06:13

jonks
Guest

Re: Learner fined after fatal crash

Absolutely, This particular case was very unfortunate and its a tragedy that any instructor should loose his life whilst doing his job. I'm not suggesting for one minute that we should discuss whether or not he was to blame for this accident.

My point, answered well in your reply, is whether a pupil should be held accountable for an accident that happens during a lesson.

#5 09-03-04 00:28:04

pageant
Guest

Re: Learner fined after fatal crash

I agree that it is seems generally unfair that a learner should be held accountable at all for an accident but there are certain issues relating to braking and steering whereby should a person deliberately and suddenly surprise the instructor with bad driving practise then there are possible circumstances where little can be done to avoid a hazardous situation developing. Though we cannot know and should not speculate it does appear pretty obvious by the circumstances(especially tyre) and subsequent punishment that the implied blame lay more with the instructor.


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#6 09-03-04 15:46:27

rachdrive
Member
From: wirral
Registered: 08-03-04
Posts: 149
Website

Re: Learner fined after fatal crash

Hi

I know this is a totally different question, But if a learner gets done for speeding whilst in your care, He/she will also get the blame and points and we would get done on aiding and abetting!! This seems a tad unfair on the learner I think as WE have duals and can easily slow them down if they ignore a verbal request to do so!!!

Rach  8)

ps very sad what happened to Mr Ward.


Driving is for life.........Not just for xmas!!!!!

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#7 09-03-04 17:14:59

pageant
Guest

Re: Learner fined after fatal crash

Good point Rach. 100% instructor responsibility and a perfect example of the law 'stinking'. How the hell a learner can be held liable in those circumstances is beyond me.

#8 09-03-04 17:32:24

DSE
Verified Member
From: North East England and Scotlan
Registered: 03-03-04
Posts: 113
Website

Re: Learner fined after fatal crash

The law must cover every situation where a learner is driving, ie not only when with a professional instructor in a dual controlled vehicle but also when practising with family and friends who only have verbal means of control.

Surely if a learner chooses to ignore requests or instructions to slow down then they deserve to face the consequences.


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Register of Fleet Driver Trainers

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#9 09-03-04 17:38:41

rachdrive
Member
From: wirral
Registered: 08-03-04
Posts: 149
Website

Re: Learner fined after fatal crash

Hi

No Problem with consequenses for the pupil, but not my expense!!!

If they choose to break the law with thier own family and friends then that is up to them.

The Instructor SHOULD have control of the situation at ALL times!!!

Maybe you mis-read it Dougie.

Rach  8)


Driving is for life.........Not just for xmas!!!!!

www.boydsdrivertraining.co.uk

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#10 09-03-04 17:46:08

rachdrive
Member
From: wirral
Registered: 08-03-04
Posts: 149
Website

Re: Learner fined after fatal crash

OOPs Sorry Adrian

only just read the other message!!!


Driving is for life.........Not just for xmas!!!!!

www.boydsdrivertraining.co.uk

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#11 09-03-04 18:50:38

pageant
Guest

Re: Learner fined after fatal crash

Then the law needs to exercise flexibility DSE as it does on many occations. The quoted example should be totally the fault of the instructor who has both the duals and no excuse. Of course the instructor can argue that the pupil deliberately went faster but then it was within the instructor's capabilities and responsibilities to put an immediate stop to the action.

#12 10-03-04 22:18:48

kev146g
Member
From: portsmouth
Registered: 29-02-04
Posts: 58
Website

Re: Learner fined after fatal crash

is the adi at fault if you tell pupil to slow down more and they hit the gas pedal by mistake just as it activates the camra and you do not have time to use dual brake??


kev
w w w.drivingschool.me.uk

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#13 11-03-04 08:21:53

Liesa
Guest

Re: Learner fined after fatal crash

Good point Kev146g

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