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#1 20-03-06 15:03:55

Moominhater
Member
From: Birmingham
Registered: 12-01-06
Posts: 274

Advanced Driving - which is best

Hi all,

I'm thinking about taking the IAM advanced test and I was just wondering what the difference is between the IAM advanced test and the Diamond advanced test.

Which ones have you guys/gals taken and which do you think is better.

Liz


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20-03-06 15:03:55

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Re: Advanced Driving - which is best




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#2 20-03-06 17:01:49

Automan
Verified Member
From: West Yorkshire
Registered: 07-11-05
Posts: 36
Website

Re: Advanced Driving - which is best

The main difference is the syllabus used. 

The IAM Test lasts for about 90 minutes and uses the Road Craft System of Car Control. The drive should be based on the 5 S's of Advanced Driving, that is to say a safe systematic smooth drive making best use of speed at the same time showing plenty of sparkle or in other words flair and panache. It’s pretty much the some as RoSPA.


The DIAmond Advanced Test will take about an hour and uses the Driving Standards Agency’s syllabus. A maximum of six minor faults will be allowed so it is about as close to the part 2 test for ADI’s as you can get.


Take care,

Automan

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#3 20-03-06 18:06:49

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Advanced Driving - which is best

Which is best?  There isn't really a definate answer to that question.  What do you want out of it?  How far along are you now with your training?  Some would say do NOT do IAM or RoSPA, at least until you have completed part 2.  There is a strong argument to go for the DIA test while you are training for the part 2 because it is based on the DSA syllabus and follows a similar marking system - perhaps useful to use the DIA as a mock test before the part2?

Personally, I like the IAM and RoSPA style of driving and like to mix teaching learners with some fleet training for some variety.  There isn't a huge difference between the two styles - straightening roundabouts & positioning on bends are the only two things that really come to mind.

At the end of the day, they are both advanced tests (as is the part 2), but different.

How are you preparing for the IAM test?  Are you having observed runs with the local group?

If you think I can help further, pm me.

Good Luck

Nigel


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#4 20-03-06 20:25:04

Gizmotime
Administrator
From: Bolton Lancashire
Registered: 05-04-04
Posts: 1,963

Re: Advanced Driving - which is best

Hi Nigel, Can I just state that the IAM do NOT advocate straightning roundabouts, if that's what you meant, sorry if it's not :oops:
The only things you can fail the IAM test on are moving traffic offences, there is NO marking system as there is with Rospa,(well there is but not as strict)

Giz

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#5 21-03-06 08:04:13

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Advanced Driving - which is best

Hi Nigel, Can I just state that the IAM do NOT advocate straightning roundabouts, if that's what you meant, sorry if it's not :oops:

Depends who you talk to.  The public face no longer advocates it, but, behind the scenes, you don't tend to get marked down for it and some tutors will encourage it!

Gizmotime wrote:

The only things you can fail the IAM test on are moving traffic offences, there is NO marking system as there is with Rospa,(well there is but not as strict)

Giz

The RoSPA one needs to be stricter because it is graded whereas the IAM is a simple pass or fail.

You can fail the IAM test for reasons other than moving traffic offences.  There has been tale on the forums about people failing for brake/gear overlap!

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#6 21-03-06 10:34:12

Moominhater
Member
From: Birmingham
Registered: 12-01-06
Posts: 274

Re: Advanced Driving - which is best

Thanks guys, I think I'll do both - eventually. 

I haven't started the IAM test yet, I'm going to apply on pay-day (skint till then).  My local ADI association suggested it, they think it will help me with part 2.  I'm also putting in for my part 1 soon (bites nails even more!).  I think I've faffed around too much and it's time to pull my finger out.

I think, once I've got part 1 and the IAM test out of the way, I'll try for the Diamond - at least it will give me a practice run before I attempt part 2, without using a part 2 lifeline.

Liz


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#7 21-03-06 11:28:44

pegasus
Verified Member
From: north west
Registered: 25-02-05
Posts: 3,302

Re: Advanced Driving - which is best

hi
I know this is a bit late for moominhater, but as a tip for others who may be starting out on the, qualification for ADI, quest.
Why not do these other tests before you do the Instructors Theory Test?
Remember, that 2 yr clock starts ticking as soon as you pass the Theory.

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#8 21-03-06 13:31:06

Moominhater
Member
From: Birmingham
Registered: 12-01-06
Posts: 274

Re: Advanced Driving - which is best

Thanks Pegasus.  I haven't put in for my theory yet due to funds being tight (story of my life).  Definately looking into the IAM test at the end of the month.

Liz


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#9 21-03-06 15:41:48

Morgan
Verified Member
Registered: 10-06-05
Posts: 202

Re: Advanced Driving - which is best

Interesting that your ADI association advocated the IAM test to help with pt2

I asked that question on here last year and the overwhelming opinion was the the IAM training/test would be counter productive to my pt2 training. Far better to wait until you have passed pt 3 before doing IAM.

The DIAmond is the one to go for in terms of your pt2

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#10 21-03-06 22:30:21

Gizmotime
Administrator
From: Bolton Lancashire
Registered: 05-04-04
Posts: 1,963

Re: Advanced Driving - which is best

You can fail the IAM test for reasons other than moving traffic offences.  There has been tale on the forums about people failing for brake/gear overlap!

Nigel

We have just had a meeting with the Examiner, and this question was again asked, and the answer was NO you won't fail for that.

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#11 22-03-06 00:49:34

luchell
Guest

Re: Advanced Driving - which is best

Moomin, if i were you i would stick clear of iam and rospa until youve passed part two. Train for the DIA advanced as that is exactly the same as part two. Problem is the iam and rospa use the roadcraft system of driving which is very similar but it would be best i think personally to stick with the Dsa MSPSL was of doing things if you see what i mean. If you go and pass your Iam or rospa you will then need to do your training for part 2 . Im sure someone else will help me with what im trying to say here cos im not getting on too well! :oops:

#12 22-03-06 06:54:05

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Advanced Driving - which is best

Gizmo,

Depends on the examiner then.  If I remember rightly, Mr BassMan failed his IAM for brake/gear overlap.  Personally I think that was extremely harsh.

Hayley,

Training for the IAM/RoSPA is likely to be a lot cheaper than training for the DIA test.  If you actually compare the System of Vehicle Control with MSPSL there is little difference, in fact MSPSL is just a more rigid implementation of it so souldn't really cause any problems.

Nigel


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#13 22-03-06 08:40:56

Gizmotime
Administrator
From: Bolton Lancashire
Registered: 05-04-04
Posts: 1,963

Re: Advanced Driving - which is best

Hi Nigel,

I think it was Mr BasMan that said he's failed for that, and at the time I couldn't understand why and I think I said it was unfair then neutral ALL the Examiners are supposed to work exactly the same way, this is why I questioned it last night.

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#14 22-03-06 19:54:14

ADI349
Verified Member
From: East Yorkshire
Registered: 24-01-05
Posts: 193

Re: Advanced Driving - which is best

You may find that if the brake/gear overlap has caused other problems ie late braking, going round a corner too fast, late steering then you could fail an IAM test.  If brake gear/overlapping has not caused any of the above and was part of a planned approach then you would not fail.

Steve W


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#15 22-03-06 21:30:22

Gizmotime
Administrator
From: Bolton Lancashire
Registered: 05-04-04
Posts: 1,963

Re: Advanced Driving - which is best

Yes that's right Steve, I was meaning that sorry I didn't make myself clearer.

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#16 28-03-06 06:28:04

CarlatPUK
Verified Member
From: Worcestershire
Registered: 28-03-06
Posts: 323
Website

Re: Advanced Driving - which is best

At the end of the day an advanced driver applies the system of car control as described in Roadcraft, if the system is adhered to such things like overlapping can not present a problem. Approach speed will line up with the appropriate gear change and a smooth controlled manoeuvre will follow.

By the way, as far as advanced training for ADI pt 2 is concerned there is only one which will help and thats the DIAmond as stated by many on this forum Roadcraft does not sit comfortably with the DSA way of life.

Personally i would qualify before going down the Roadcraft road and do Cardington before that!

Hi Nigel, didn't know you had time for these forums!

Carl


PROGRESSIVE-UK Driver Development
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We also train driving instructors

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#17 28-03-06 07:15:16

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Advanced Driving - which is best

....
By the way, as far as advanced training for ADI pt 2 is concerned there is only one which will help and thats the DIAmond as stated by many on this forum Roadcraft does not sit comfortably with the DSA way of life.

There isn't that much in Roadcraft that upsets the DSA style, but, yes, the DIA tests will prepare drivers better for the DSA test.  I still don't regret doing RoSPA before part 2 though.

Carl wrote:

Hi Nigel, didn't know you had time for these forums!

Carl

??????????????????


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#18 28-03-06 07:46:42

pegasus
Verified Member
From: north west
Registered: 25-02-05
Posts: 3,302

Re: Advanced Driving - which is best

Hi
If you haven't previously done any further driver training plus taken an advanced test, before considering becoming an instructor.
What commitment/interest in improved driver standards have you shown?

Why don't the DSA insist that you must have demonstrated some such interest before they even send you the info about the register?

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#19 28-03-06 14:05:59

CarlatPUK
Verified Member
From: Worcestershire
Registered: 28-03-06
Posts: 323
Website

Re: Advanced Driving - which is best

I guess the answer to that is the public see the profession as an easy way of earning money first and teaching `a skill for life` is nothing more than a moto.
I agree that higher entry qualifications could deter the less than serious candidate but it would have to be more than just one advanced qualification.
I reckon the biggest mistake so far is allowing the major training arganisations to run away with the training, giving the impression via clever advertising that the job is all glitz and glory.


PROGRESSIVE-UK Driver Development
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#20 28-03-06 15:16:19

msdarcy721
Member
Registered: 04-06-05
Posts: 1,674

Re: Advanced Driving - which is best

I guess the answer to that is the public see the profession as an easy way of earning money first and teaching `a skill for life` is nothing more than a moto.

that seems like a pretty big generalisation there, CarlatPUK. In our local paper, just for a start there are so many adverts promoting the 'financial benefits of a 30 k plus earning to be made as an adi and i see very few, if any, local advanced driver training groups adverts making the general public aware of the possibilities open to them to improve their safety standards and ability on the roads. i can't really blame joe public, who opens the paper, to be attracted by the glitz and glam of potential earnings, work as your own boss etc etc particularly if driver instructor training is to be sold in this way. If 'safe driving for life' or advanced driver training does not widely circulate around communities, how can the public be to blame? i know people are very capable of finding details which will put them in good stead for a possible career move, but if info isn't altogether published in a widely accessible way, then, is joe public entirely at fault himself for not being aware of exactly what is involved in becoming an adi? I feel some driver organisations, especially local ones, could be doing more to educate the public about the importance of 'safe driving for life', and providing those who are interested in joining this profession with some more factual information rather than placing an emphasis on financial gain that many training companies do to entice anyone more or less who they can lay their hands on. (i know not all trainer organisations operate in this way, and may be those that do advertise like this, are reputable) it's just how the information is presented that i think misleads rather than serves to inform.

I think if it is true, what you say about the general public seeing the motto which says driving is 'a skill for life' as nothing more than a motto then i think, again at large the public is not ultimately responsible for the scarcity of sound/useful information regarding this career path; and advanced driving at large, if they have few opportunities to engage with road safety issues and support for all matters driving on a daily basis; not due to ignorance but out of a lack of awareness.

There are some very informative sites on the internet with lots of useful information for advanced drivers/people who are considering entering into the profession; this being one of them, but just how widespread are they?

i'd like to see a bit more of this sort of thing happening in my local area, so safe driving for life really does become a priority.

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#21 28-03-06 19:09:16

pegasus
Verified Member
From: north west
Registered: 25-02-05
Posts: 3,302

Re: Advanced Driving - which is best

Hi msdarcy

i see very few, if any, local advanced driver training groups adverts making the general public aware of the possibilities open to them to improve their safety standards and ability on the roads.

Certainly in my area of Lancashire the local RoSPA group have an article in the local press abouty every 6 weeks.
They run weekly meetings, and have a rolling 6 wk programme of theory sessions covering the principles of Roadcraft, so the articles are about a week or 10 days before each start date.
When you join the group you get a years membership and if because of work or other commitments you can't do the sessions on consecutive weeks you can go along to catch up in a later set.
Of course you can also go along for a repeat of a session as well if you want to. 
On these Tuesday evening sessions they also make arrangements for the Sunday observed drives.

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#22 28-03-06 19:45:06

msdarcy721
Member
Registered: 04-06-05
Posts: 1,674

Re: Advanced Driving - which is best

i'll have a look out...defo. see what i can find out there  big_smile

i've not long left lancashire, (preston) but wasn't driving myself at the time. hoping to return there in september, so might have a look at different advanced driving groups. Always thought the RoSPA advanced driver training was slightly more difficult than the IAM? Particularly how the test is marked? Fancy trying out IAM first i think, when i've gained some more experience, and am more confident. my adi spoke to me of the possible routes briefly as we ended pass plus course. so know there's stuff out there, just a bit of a shame there's hardly any mention/coverage of advanced driving or even general driving in local press. bit more coverage in press would be a good thing.

I've got roadcraft book, so am doing a little bit of self-study, but i don't think it beats joining a group.


your local RosPA group sounds flexible. defo tempted to see what we've got in our area and see about joining one  8-)





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#23 28-03-06 20:20:04

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Advanced Driving - which is best

msdarcy,

Look into both groups.  Often you will find in a particular area one of the groups is more active than the other.  See if you can go along to at least one of the evenings for each group and see which one you feel most comfortable at.

I wouldn't say IAM is harder than RoSPA or vice-versa.  The main difference is that IAM is pass once with no sort of grade at all whereas the RoSPA test grades you and you have to re-test every 3 years.

Good Luck whichever way you go

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#24 31-03-06 06:12:00

zebb
Guest

Re: Advanced Driving - which is best

Hi guys
just about to start training for DIAmond special test, anyone else done this one as i believe its alot harder than cardington so im told, 2 minors only? any advice/help appreciated.

zebb


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#25 31-03-06 07:58:25

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Advanced Driving - which is best

Hi guys
just about to start training for DIAmond special test, anyone else done this one as i believe its alot harder than cardington so im told, 2 minors only? any advice/help appreciated.

zebb

A lot harder than Cardington?  As I understand it there is very little difference between the two.  Cardington allows 3 minors, DIA 2 minors.  No repeats of the minors are allowed on either test.

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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