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#1 09-03-06 16:41:45

evan
Guest

PINK LICENCE

Is it true they are phasing out the trainee licence, it seems to have been mentioned a few times on the forum, and I wondered if this is true or is it a rumour.

09-03-06 16:41:45

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Re: PINK LICENCE



#2 09-03-06 19:35:09

luchell
Guest

Re: PINK LICENCE

Apparently its true but i wish i could read something concrete on how it will be done once that happens. I suppose they havent worked that out yet maybe?

#3 09-03-06 19:55:36

evan
Guest

Re: PINK LICENCE

I think I'll have a word with the SE in the local test centre next time I'm down there luchell, seems a lot of rumours going around about it. I'll keep you all posted. Ev

#4 09-03-06 20:07:57

1stdrive
Guest

Re: PINK LICENCE

Been on the cards for a while, maybe it'll be confirmed soon. I can think of one national school who are gonna lose alot of income if it does happen, I'm sure they must be leading the que to object.


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#5 09-03-06 22:04:25

Andi
Member
Registered: 21-10-05
Posts: 1,382

Re: PINK LICENCE

I would imagine several national companies seeing a massive drop in profits! Things need a big shake up, the pink is just so abused it is untrue ( by various training establishments)

Me thinks they will protest.

Andi


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#6 09-03-06 22:15:02

markA.d.I
Guest

Re: PINK LICENCE

I think the pink is a good way of learning the ropes if supervised closer, and customers are given an option of green/pink and perhaps a reduction in lesson fees.

I trained on a pink, i honestly don't think i would have passed my part 3 1st go with out it.

You do get a fair share of pdi's saying they are not earning enough ..... that goes to show that the pink is being mis-used, and pdi's are being lead down that road for the wrong reasons.

I get fed up with people slamming the "pinkies", i always wave, always chat at the test center, and always help if advice is needed.

I can remember being treated like a leper when i first started, the way other adis looked at your badge ... not nice.

I would like the pink to stay, but controlled a lot tighter,.

It will be interesting to see how much say the big national company has in all this, they stand to loose a huge chunk of cash!


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#7 09-03-06 22:18:44

bcsom
Verified Member
From: Sheffield
Registered: 15-10-05
Posts: 103
Website

Re: PINK LICENCE

The fact is (according to DSA) there's no evidence to show that PDI's on a Trainee Licence have a greater chance of passing part 3, than those without one.

Read into that what you will!


Russ Green DSA ADI
BLUE CAR School of Motoring
Sheffield

ORDIT 1, 2 & 3 Approved 1-2-1 Pay-As-You-Go Driving Instructor Training

DIAmond Advanced Tests
DIAmond Special Tests

www.blue-car.co.uk (thanks Jonks!)

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#8 09-03-06 22:30:14

evan
Guest

Re: PINK LICENCE

It's what makes you feel confident that count's. If a person feels that going on a pink licence is going to give them more chance of passing why not. As Mark says above there can sometimes be a little bit of a sneer towards people on a pink. It is worth remembering whether you go out on a pink or straight to green. The training you receive to get to the green will have been the same. It's all the same course you are learning, same 3 tests you have to pass. The pity is people do get taken for a ride on a pink, but then that is not their fault, they are just trying to learn the ropes.

#9 09-03-06 22:33:18

bcsom
Verified Member
From: Sheffield
Registered: 15-10-05
Posts: 103
Website

Re: PINK LICENCE

People do get taken for a ride on a pink, definately.

The Trainee Licence is good for some pupils, but not all.  The problem is, it's pushed to PDI's as the norm.


Russ Green DSA ADI
BLUE CAR School of Motoring
Sheffield

ORDIT 1, 2 & 3 Approved 1-2-1 Pay-As-You-Go Driving Instructor Training

DIAmond Advanced Tests
DIAmond Special Tests

www.blue-car.co.uk (thanks Jonks!)

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#10 10-03-06 00:45:17

cooster
Member
Registered: 10-03-06
Posts: 10

Re: PINK LICENCE

the pink is just so abused it is untrue ( by various training establishments)

What an inaccurate and misleading comment.

The vast majority of abuse of the 'pink' comes from those who are on it (not all of them, of course) and not the trainers. People choose that route because they can earn money sooner, even though that is completely against the whole ethic of the 'pink'.

One of the reasons the 'pink' is being questioned is that with so many PDIs never making it to ADI, a great many learners trained by a 'pink' must be getting a bum deal. A dangerously bum deal.

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#11 10-03-06 01:14:44

Andi
Member
Registered: 21-10-05
Posts: 1,382

Re: PINK LICENCE

Firstly, hello and welcome cooster..??

Secondly, i will not justify my comment to you, because i dont need to!


The vast majority of abuse of the 'pink' comes from those who are on it (not all of them, of course) and not the trainers. People choose that route because they can earn money sooner, even though that is completely against the whole ethic of the 'pink'.

Really, im sure plenty who are actually on them (i am not) will be along shortly to tell you their experiences.


One of the reasons the 'pink' is being questioned is that with so many PDIs never making it to ADI, a great many learners trained by a 'pink' must be getting a bum deal. A dangerously bum deal.

Why do you think that is? Nothing to do with rubbish training in the first place, or just being left to get on with it by their chosen training establishment would it......who is really to blame, the pink licence holder or the sponsor?


Andi


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#12 10-03-06 01:55:49

cooster
Member
Registered: 10-03-06
Posts: 10

Re: PINK LICENCE

I like the way you don't justify your comments by justifying them at great length  ;D

So everything that is wrong with the 'pink' system is entirely down to the training establishments - and only the big, national ones, not any small, local ones? And it's the 'sponsor' now, is it? I'd just like to point out that the 'sponsor' isn't automatically the 'training establishment', and not all 'training establishments' are big national ones, except the way you say it.

The principle of the 'pink' is great. The reality is somewhat different overall, and the only reason that reality is different is because of the people on the 'pink'. If the 'pink' exists, training companies (national or local) will use it or not as it suits them. But your position seems to be that any national company will be abusing it if they use it without any qualification whatsoever. I had a look at some of your other posts and I can see what you are getting at: BSM, isn't it?

If the 'pink' is axed, all those who ever used it to make money first and train second should hang their heads in shame (but they won't). So, yes: overall it is the 'pink' holders who are to blame for the problems, not the sponsors. And especially not just sponsors who happen to be involved with 'big national companies'.

How on earth could the overall quality of the 'pink' be influenced more significantly by anything other than the overall quality and attitudes of the 'pink' licence holders? (note the word 'overall' in all of that).

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#13 10-03-06 02:03:05

Andi
Member
Registered: 21-10-05
Posts: 1,382

Re: PINK LICENCE

Sorry to dissapoint you, but i have no connection what so ever to B$M, nor do i have any axe to grind with them?

No i am not, nor have i ever recieved any training from them, your way off key...... lol lol lol

:mrgreen: :mrgreen:

5.gif4.gif

Andi


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#14 10-03-06 12:40:24

luchell
Guest

Re: PINK LICENCE

I went on a pink as it seemed if you didnt you were told you had no chance and it was the thing to do. I was told lies on statistics that that a minimal percentage pass without a pink which we all know is NOT true.

I had no intention of earning money i did not give a damn about that. If you want to earn money then do what my neighbours done enjoy it whilst it lasts then go get another job when you fail part three all 3 attempts :cry: I earnt enough to cover my franchise fee and that was about it. I knew once i got my green i could think about earning money.

Whilst on a pink help was minimal and numerous other things went on which im not talking about on a public board.

cooster i believe it is a two way process of course, there are trainees out there that start to do more and more and more lessons thinking that will help(and the money aspect must be ohhh so tempting although i never found that so) when actually you need to be studying and making EVERY effort to do better in your next lesson.

SOME large and small no doubt training companies do exploit the pink esp when i think i paid nearly 8 grand in franchise fees when i didnt have to have gone on the bleeding pink in the first place. Looking back i wish i had had fantastic quality training and gone straight for green but i had ok training and used the pink to top it up but not everyone uses it that was as ive said above. It was put across to me during my training that you were pretty bonkers to not take a pink out which i now strongly believe this to be incorrect. I used the pink to build my confidence as i felt i needed that but had i had some decent roleplay then i would have built confidence that way.

#15 10-03-06 14:57:38

althorpdt
Verified Member
Registered: 02-01-05
Posts: 223

Re: PINK LICENCE

BSM would fight to the death to keep the trainee licence as without it they would struggle to attract ADIs with their whopping franchise fee. The pink is designed to help PDIs prepare for the part 3 but has been abused shockingly for years as a franchise money making machine, DSA are making a lot of money out of the system so are laissez-faire in their attitude to it.

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#16 10-03-06 15:01:23

Andi
Member
Registered: 21-10-05
Posts: 1,382

Re: PINK LICENCE

Well Said!

Andi


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#17 10-03-06 20:05:09

cooster
Member
Registered: 10-03-06
Posts: 10

Re: PINK LICENCE

BSM would fight to the death to keep the trainee licence ... DSA are making a lot of money out of the system so are laissez-faire in their attitude to it.

It is the DSA who want to dump it, isn't it? The only thing stopping them is how many people they'd upset if they just cut it now.

The problems with the pink system are at grass roots level: the majority of those going on a pink never make it to ADI, so is it right that so many learners are being trained by such people? Also, a quick search of this site alone shows that many people considering the pink route think nothing of advertising themselves even though that is completely against the ethic of the system. Indeed, I found a couple of cases where ADIs were advising them how far they could go with that. It seems that the decision to go pink has at least as much to do with making money as it does with training oneself - and that is abuse of the system

Whether or not BSM make money out of it is irrelevant to how well the pink licence works. Even if it does work to their advantage in the long run, the money they make isn't directly out of the pink but several levels removed, and the same is true of anyone who is involved with the pink.

The problems are at the simplest level: with the pink licence holders. It certainly isn't BSM who are messing it up.

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#18 10-03-06 21:16:38

markA.d.I
Guest

Re: PINK LICENCE

Do you not think the PDIS are having to push themselves for money because of the extortionate franchise fees ?

Could they not offer cheaper more affordable fee's, so the Pdis can put into practice there new found skills and study ?

If the vetted the applicants more honestly, gave them the best possible chance of studying and teaching part time, i think they would be more likely to hold onto decent instructors once they have that green.

lets face it, anyone with a few quid, a slight interest in being an adi, will be taken on, doesn't matter if they smell of BO, or if they can string a sentence together, they will take on who ever for the money.

Surely if there was more honesty towards unsuitable applicants, the pass rates would be higher?

Pink is abused by large and small schools, more than its abused by PDIs in my honest opinion, and lets face it, all these posts are just opinions.


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#19 10-03-06 21:43:52

cooster
Member
Registered: 10-03-06
Posts: 10

Re: PINK LICENCE

Do you not think the PDIS are having to push themselves for money because of the extortionate franchise fees ?

Possibly. But the people asking about it on this site are not with BSM - they're looking to go solo. And the ADIs advising them how to advertise without going too far are also not with BSM. Therefore, I would conclude that the specific BSM angle on this is a complete red herring. The pink is abused across the board and not just because of the existence of BSM.

BSM's franchise fees are a separate and unrelated issue. Obviously they're not so high that you don't get loads of decent ADIs working on a BSM franchise and making a decent living into the bargain.

I agree that more honesty would be better at the outset, but in this modern age it is a pipe dream and is unlikely to happen. After all, who is to say the person making the judgement is correct when they destroy someone's proposed career path? How would you decide who is suitable and who isn't? What a can of worms that would be.

I maintain that the fundamental problem with the pink is not the abuse aspect per se, but the fact that people who haven't a cat in hell's chance of becoming an ADI - over 75% of PDIs at that stage, maybe - are out there training learners. Abusing the system by advertising or making money is just peripheral.

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#20 10-03-06 21:56:17

markA.d.I
Guest

Re: PINK LICENCE

How does anyone vet anyone, for instance when holding job interviews?

I trained with a few PDis who really didn't have a cat in hells chance of passing part 1 or 2, they really where just seeing the £30,000 supposed wage, jumping out of there factory jobs, i think a series of aptitude test, perhaps even some in house tests for potential pdis if you follow me

People should be made a little more aware of whats involved, hopefully there would be a higher level of pass rates, and in the end a higher standard of adis on the road earning a little more cash!

#21 10-03-06 23:01:24

cooster
Member
Registered: 10-03-06
Posts: 10

Re: PINK LICENCE

I agree on the aptitude test idea. But I doubt that today's society would allow it - we've gone a long way away from aptitude-based criteria to determine suitability for a job. So far away that we'll never go back, more's the pity.

What worries me is that there is a sudden influx of what I think of as 'touchy-feely' people into this profession, probably for the same reasons you highlighted. It takes more than a nice smile to be good at things.

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#22 10-03-06 23:24:14

Andi
Member
Registered: 21-10-05
Posts: 1,382

Re: PINK LICENCE

What worries me is that there is a sudden influx of what I think of as 'touchy-feely' people into this profession, probably for the same reasons you highlighted. It takes more than a nice smile to be good at things.

Whats 'touchy feely' peeple?  :?

Andi


1.gif

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#23 11-03-06 19:09:28

evan
Guest

Re: PINK LICENCE

Not a good idea to be 'touchy feely' when teaching pupils to drive, definite No No.

#24 11-03-06 21:09:40

Andi
Member
Registered: 21-10-05
Posts: 1,382

Re: PINK LICENCE

i was thinking that Ev, cant think what this poster is trying to say at all.....

Mmmm

Andi


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#25 11-03-06 22:35:30

bcsom
Verified Member
From: Sheffield
Registered: 15-10-05
Posts: 103
Website

Re: PINK LICENCE

Just to clarify a couple of points:

1. 
At the ORDIT seminar last year, DSA discussed in some length the Trainee Licence.  I know that because of the issues related to scrapping the Trainee Licence, the 'back door' closure would be to make it 100% supervised.  This would make it uneconomic to operate, as things stand.  I believe this to be a serious possibility, as far as DSA are concerned.

2. Aptitude Tests were also considered at length, and I believe that DSA are consulting on them now, based onn other industries.

Without digging out my meeting notes, this is as much as I can recall, really.


Russ Green DSA ADI
BLUE CAR School of Motoring
Sheffield

ORDIT 1, 2 & 3 Approved 1-2-1 Pay-As-You-Go Driving Instructor Training

DIAmond Advanced Tests
DIAmond Special Tests

www.blue-car.co.uk (thanks Jonks!)

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