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#26 13-12-05 22:31:55

dth-adi
Verified Member
Registered: 19-09-04
Posts: 1,402

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

Without eaking this out longer and longer, I think the point has been made that the subject of insurance needs to be considered by self-employed ADIs to ensure that they have the necessary insurance covers in place.

They should seek reliable professional advice as to what they need. They are free to make their own decisions and will then deal with any consequences.

I'm glad someone has been prompted to consider Professional Indemnity of which they were, perhaps, previously unaware so they can make their decision on it.

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13-12-05 22:31:55

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Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability




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#27 13-12-05 22:46:50

la.monikita
Verified Member
From: SE LONDON / KENT
Registered: 12-03-05
Posts: 3,064

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

Dave, as driving instructors do we not teach; WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF.....just because it hasn't yet happen it does not mean it won't, or does it?
that's why insurance companies exist, would you not agree?
never say never!!


"What is necessary to change a person is to change his awareness of himself."
Abraham Maslow

21st Century Women http://www.loisontheloose.com/my-advent … /the-team/

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#28 13-12-05 22:54:24

DAVE-ADI
Guest

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

Insurance companies exist to make money.  They cover impossible situations because they make money from it.

WHAT IF  you have a heart attack while driving tomorrow.  Do you have insurance to cover the event?

You could go on and on  finding what if situations.

Save your money, put it on the lottery.  You have more chance of benefitting from it.

My offers stand.  Provide proof that any ADI has ever needed  PI cover and I'll pay out.


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#29 14-12-05 09:50:19

Colin Martin
Verified Member
From: Southsea
Registered: 21-01-05
Posts: 2,465
Website

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

dth-adi wrote:

Quote:
But if you......drop the bonnet on their fingers doing show me tell me etc. (you can see where this goes) then you can be sued for big money.

That would be assault. Are you on something?

No, it's not assault! Assault is a positive plan to hurt someone and this hardly fits that category.

The above situation could easily happen if, for instance, the candidate opens the bonnet and tries to put the stay into the hole or hook or whatever and there is a fault with the mechanism that can be proved to have been there previously.

If the bonnet falls and as a result, the candidate (who is a 22 year old plumber in London with wife and kids etc), loses the use of his working hand, then these days, he would be likely to sue someone for the loss of earnings which would be considerable.

So who would he sue? The owner of the car and or the ADI that's who.

This example could be ridiculed but tell me 100% that such a scenario is impossible and I'll cancel my cover through a trade body.

At the test centre recently the senior examiner came in holding the bonnet stay from an instructors car that had fallen off during show me tell me. We had a laugh but apparently this happens a lot on this make of car. Could have been worse.


Colin Martin
The Bright Red L http://thebrightredl.com
Instructor Apps http://drivinginstructorapps.co.uk
Apps Video channel https://www.youtube.com/colinbythesea

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#30 14-12-05 10:33:25

DAVE-ADI
Guest

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

So who would he sue? The owner of the car and or the ADI that's who.

He wouldn't sue anyone.  It's covered in public liability section of car insurance.   It isn't negligence.  You are so confused.

#31 14-12-05 12:37:41

lindaj
Member
From: Ayrshire
Registered: 25-11-05
Posts: 60
Website

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

What's the web address of the DIA?


Linda

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#32 14-12-05 13:04:04

Colin Martin
Verified Member
From: Southsea
Registered: 21-01-05
Posts: 2,465
Website

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

lindaj wrote:

What's the web address of the DIA?

0208 - 665 5151

Safety House
Beddington Farm Road
Croydon
CR0 4XZ


Colin Martin
The Bright Red L http://thebrightredl.com
Instructor Apps http://drivinginstructorapps.co.uk
Apps Video channel https://www.youtube.com/colinbythesea

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#33 14-12-05 13:12:15

Badger
Guest

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

""He wouldn't sue anyone""

Its the same thing -  if you make a claim against a driver you are suing him and he passes it on to to his insurance company.

Your statutory vehicle insurance covers your liability and protects your third parties in the event of a third party claim. Everyone understands that.

Your voluntary professional indemnity insurance covers you in the event of a professional aberration that could result in a client claim,  i.e you forget to teach your pupil how to do an emergency stop and they fail the test for not doing it correctly.

They then put in a fat claim for hurt feelings, retesting, more lessons, lost work, cancelled holidays, bus/train  fares telephone calls, stamps and anything else that a solicitor can dream up.

Clearly this is not covered by third party liability

There was a case recently where a girl claimed that an ADI had not warned her to get her car as far off the road as possible if it broke down. She broke down and left the car in the road on a bend with no warning lights and someone smashed into it.  She lost her case because she couldnt prove that he had not told her.

The question that I have not found an answer to is who the third party is in the vehicle  when your pupil is driving?  Is it him or you?

B


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#34 14-12-05 13:56:36

DAVE-ADI
Guest

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

There was a case recently where a girl claimed that an ADI had not warned her to get her car as far off the road as possible if it broke down. She broke down and left the car in the road on a bend with no warning lights and someone smashed into it.

Is that  just heresay or do you have details of where the case was heard?
People are very good at putting stories around, but not at being able to back it up with any detail.
The cost of even taking such a case to court is astronomical, and that has to be paid for by the plaintiff.     So it's extremely unlikely that the story above has any truth in it at all, because the plaintiff would have been advised at a very early stage that the chances of winning in a court would be nil.

She lost her case because she couldnt prove that he had not told her.

And that is my point.   Unless there is tangible, provable evidence, no case is ever going to be won.   So paying for insurance to cover such an event is a waste of money.


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#35 14-12-05 17:42:09

Colin Martin
Verified Member
From: Southsea
Registered: 21-01-05
Posts: 2,465
Website

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

Colin Martin wrote:
lindaj wrote:

What's the web address of the DIA?

0208 - 665 5151

Safety House
Beddington Farm Road
Croydon
CR0 4XZ

Sorry should read things slower

WEB ADDRESS IS http://www.driving.org/index.html


Colin Martin
The Bright Red L http://thebrightredl.com
Instructor Apps http://drivinginstructorapps.co.uk
Apps Video channel https://www.youtube.com/colinbythesea

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#36 14-12-05 17:54:59

Badger
Guest

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

""So paying for insurance to cover such an event is a waste of money.""

Therefore all insurance that doesnt pay out is a waste of money ?

Beware the advent of compulsory logbooks. A veritable nest of vipers waiting for the uninsured foot.

All I would say is that with the modern tendency of the public to cliam for everything, ADIs would do well to follow the examples of most professional groups and insure for professional indemnity. 

Nobody is perfect and we are all human and what you are insuring against is human error.

And it it can be offset against tax.

I thought DIDU was offering or going to offer Professional Indemnity Insurance for its members with their membership fees?

B


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#37 14-12-05 18:19:09

DAVE-ADI
Guest

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

I thought DIDU was offering or going to offer Professional Indemnity Insurance for its members with their membership fees?

The T&G insurers say it is a waste of money.  Better to offer something like sickness/critical illness cover


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#38 14-12-05 18:25:40

Colin Martin
Verified Member
From: Southsea
Registered: 21-01-05
Posts: 2,465
Website

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

DAVE-ADI wrote:

I thought DIDU was offering or going to offer Professional Indemnity Insurance for its members with their membership fees?

The T&G insurers say it is a waste of money.  Better to offer something like sickness/critical illness cover

What do their independant legal advisors say?


Colin Martin
The Bright Red L http://thebrightredl.com
Instructor Apps http://drivinginstructorapps.co.uk
Apps Video channel https://www.youtube.com/colinbythesea

Offline


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#39 14-12-05 20:25:14

dth-adi
Verified Member
Registered: 19-09-04
Posts: 1,402

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

DAVE-ADI wrote:

So who would he sue? The owner of the car and or the ADI that's who.

He wouldn't sue anyone.  It's covered in public liability section of car insurance.   It isn't negligence.  You are so confused.

The problem, Dave, is that you are too simplistic in your outlook. You clearly do not or cannot understand how negligence is occasioned even if someone thinks they have not been negligent. Neither do you appear to comprehend the basic premise by which the Courts judge the outcomes of civil and other claims.

You appear not to believe any insurance is worthwhile and that is a life choice of an individual. My main concern on here is that others know what decisions they are making and what the implications may be as a result of those decisions and do not simply go ahead 'blind'

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#40 14-12-05 20:41:40

DAVE-ADI
Guest

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

Well, I'm quite confident that I'll never poke my pupils eye out. 

But if others aren't so confident, then I can understand why they would  want to cover the risk.

#41 14-12-05 20:43:54

markA.d.I
Guest

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

I am often tempted too ...... when we are heading towards a lorry at 30mph and they decide too look which gear they are in ! lol


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#42 14-12-05 20:54:40

dth-adi
Verified Member
Registered: 19-09-04
Posts: 1,402

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

DAVE-ADI wrote:

Well, I'm quite confident that I'll never poke my pupils eye out. 

But if others aren't so confident, then I can understand why they would  want to cover the risk.

Fair enough!! lol

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#43 15-12-05 10:08:45

Colin Martin
Verified Member
From: Southsea
Registered: 21-01-05
Posts: 2,465
Website

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

I continue to read this thread, sometimes with horror, and have to add my conclusion.

I have sat in front of a solicitor regarding a situation that could have caused a claim on my indemnity insurance. It was a business situation not a teaching or car related one. The solicitor asked about my indemnity insurance because the situation could have lost me everything financially.

That is a scary moment which I wouldn't want anybody to face. I don't want to elaborate because its done and finished now and I have learnt a lot about what to commit to print. But its something any of you could do or may have already done and not know it.

Look at the TV and listen to the radio. There are people making big money taking on any sort of legal claim and winning them, otherwise they wouldn't do it. It's OK to laugh at the pen in eye scenario but I have 2 pen marks on the headlining of my car where I have reached into the back seat to get something, I didn't want to draw on the roof. You may enter a discussion with friends about how to drive witnessed by others and that advice could be the point argued in court in the event of a bad outcome. You may write a letter, put a note on a business card that could be bad advice or damage somebody elses reputation or good business name. There are plenty of forum posts that could easily cause a case, I saw one yesterday on another forum mocking an organisation and using their trade mark without permission. We all make errors of judgement.

This is a statement that probably won't go down well but think of your pupils and business associates. Pupils are paying you money for a service and if it all goes wrong they deserve compensation. If they have to bankrupt you to get it there might be no money left by the time solicitors, barristers and receivers have their share.

These things are happening daily. Look at the press, ask a solicitor or CAB both of whom are impartial. Its not fun finding out the hard way. Its ony about 50 quid a year to join a trade body and you will get a lot more than just insurance. When CPD starts you could save that on member discounts on training material and courses.

I just hope the luck of the uninsured holds out for the sake of them and their claimants.

Colin


Colin Martin
The Bright Red L http://thebrightredl.com
Instructor Apps http://drivinginstructorapps.co.uk
Apps Video channel https://www.youtube.com/colinbythesea

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#44 15-12-05 11:07:09

Badger
Guest

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

Again, good post Colin.

The newbies now have both sides and will be able to make up their own minds.

I would dearly love to lift £200 off the Deputy Chairman of DIDU  lol  but havent the time for the research !  Perhaps you could help me via pm?

B

#45 15-12-05 13:20:54

DAVE-ADI
Guest

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

It's here ready in cash.

#46 15-12-05 13:47:14

luchell
Guest

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

Good post colin. As a nurse i always had extra insurance just incase. You never know. Better to be safe than sorry i always say lol

#47 21-01-06 10:26:57

alys
Member
From: Preston
Registered: 02-08-04
Posts: 100
Website

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

Question for Dave-ADI -

If we take your advice, cancel our DIA membership and lose our Professional Indemnity Insurance and subsequently are are the subject of a claim, does that mean we can then sue you for bad advice?

Alys

PS Personally the membership fee is worth it for the peace of mind.


Alys smile
_______________________________________
Driving Instructor in Preston, Lancashire

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