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#1 12-12-05 18:46:02

Natalie
Member
From: Leeds, West Yorkshire
Registered: 03-03-04
Posts: 176

Sickness Cover and Public Liability

Hi people

Just wanted to pick your brains.  Is there a particular company I could contact with regards to sickness cover?  Am I being thick? :oops:

Also when you get car insurance does it cover public liability.

If you haven't guessed I am going to be working for myself and want to make sure I get whatever is necessary.

I will ask about public liability when I get insurance quotes but will feel a birk if I am asking the wrong people.

Nats

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12-12-05 18:46:02

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Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability




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#2 12-12-05 19:00:14

Lynne
Verified Member
From: Essex
Registered: 05-03-04
Posts: 925

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

Natalie have you thought about joining the DIA?

You at least get free public liability and professional indemnity.
http://www.driving.org/dia_membership.html

Lynne

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#3 12-12-05 19:01:08

Natalie
Member
From: Leeds, West Yorkshire
Registered: 03-03-04
Posts: 176

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

Thanks

There are so many names and companys I read in the ADI News and things I get confused.

Nats

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#4 12-12-05 19:01:27

Lynne
Verified Member
From: Essex
Registered: 05-03-04
Posts: 925

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

Natalie have you thought about joining the DIA?

You at least get free public liability and professional indemnity.
http://www.driving.org/dia_membership.html

Lynne

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#5 12-12-05 19:16:43

petersull
Guest

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

Natalie

We have our school insurance with Waveney and the policy automatically gives you £20 million Public liability. It also provides Driving Instructor liability (protects you against injury claims from a pupil undergoing lessons, who believes there is negligence on the part of the instructor following an accident)

Hope this helps in some way.

Marie

#6 12-12-05 19:26:44

Natalie
Member
From: Leeds, West Yorkshire
Registered: 03-03-04
Posts: 176

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

Thanks for that funnily enough I got there number off a friend to call for a quote, looks like im on the right track.

Nats

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#7 12-12-05 20:00:20

DAVE-ADI
Guest

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

All car insurance includes public liability cover by law, so you don't need any other cover. 
In fact any other cover would be invalid in a claim because you cannot be covered twice.

#8 12-12-05 20:10:20

Natalie
Member
From: Leeds, West Yorkshire
Registered: 03-03-04
Posts: 176

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

So how do you get on with sickness cover, is it just good saving skills for the day you have to be off?

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#9 12-12-05 21:11:09

sparkle
Guest

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

I try and save for a broken leg & arm...but i never get far lol  lol  9not the worlds best saver...too many nice handbags about..oops)

#10 12-12-05 21:36:54

DAVE-ADI
Guest

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

Problem with sickness benefit for the self employed is that most of it doesn't kick in until after the first seven days.

Unless it's serious, most self employed don't have so much time off.
So you might be better instead of paying premiums to just put a little away each week.

#11 12-12-05 21:40:02

Natalie
Member
From: Leeds, West Yorkshire
Registered: 03-03-04
Posts: 176

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

My thoughts exactly.

Thanks guys

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#12 12-12-05 21:46:26

dth-adi
Verified Member
Registered: 19-09-04
Posts: 1,402

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

DAVE-ADI wrote:

All car insurance includes public liability cover by law, so you don't need any other cover. 
In fact any other cover would be invalid in a claim because you cannot be covered twice.

Does the above mean that the canny insurance companies rate the risks of a claim for liability from a professional driving instructor no higher than for a private individual?

What further information is there to support this statement? And in what specific ADI work situation are we saying we do or don't need anything other than that provided by a normal car insurance policy?

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#13 12-12-05 21:55:53

DAVE-ADI
Guest

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

What further info do you want?  If you don't believe me contact your insurance company for confirmation

#14 12-12-05 21:57:02

sparkle
Guest

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

Ive dropped the DIA...

Waste of money.


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#15 12-12-05 22:14:13

dth-adi
Verified Member
Registered: 19-09-04
Posts: 1,402

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

DAVE-ADI wrote:

What further info do you want?  If you don't believe me contact your insurance company for confirmation

You made the statement. I'm just asking for further information. Are you able to supply it?

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#16 12-12-05 22:15:32

DAVE-ADI
Guest

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

I've already asked, what further info do you want?


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#17 12-12-05 23:15:37

dth-adi
Verified Member
Registered: 19-09-04
Posts: 1,402

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

If you look at this link

http://www.liabilityquotes.co.uk/busine … rance.html

appreciating it is an advert, the explanation for Public Liability does not seem to be what the average car insurance would cover. I'm simply asking what the explanation is that convinces you that the car insurance is sufficient for an ADI.

For those that ditch the DIA, don't they still need any Professional Indemnity cover.

Insurance can be a very complicated subject and people new to the profession ought to look into it for themselves rather that believing what they read on the internet. If people offer advice, is it not reasonable and helpful, if requested, to provide additional information if they can?

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#18 13-12-05 08:04:06

DAVE-ADI
Guest

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

If you read your policy you will find a section about public liability.  Don't take my word.

As for professional indemnity,  there has never been a case in English law of any ADI being sued,  for a number of reasons, including the enormous costs of even bringing a case to court, and the impossible task of proving negligence.

(No doubt some gullible person will now post one the very old and very silly stories which were invented by those trying to flog the insurance).

Some professions certainly do need the cover, where there is tangible and accountable evidence of proven  negligence, but in our situation that can't apply.

It's all hype, and it isn't even free.  You pay for useless insurance cover through membership fees.   There's more chance of winning the lottery than needing this type of cover as an ADI.

You are better off, and much more likely to benefit, by putting the money into sickness or critical illness insurance, or even a pension fund.


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#19 13-12-05 19:20:09

Colin Martin
Verified Member
From: Southsea
Registered: 21-01-05
Posts: 2,465
Website

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

DAVE-ADI wrote:

If you read your policy you will find a section about public liability.  Don't take my word.

I rarely read these forums and have not written for some time. But this is important. Yes, your motor policy will cover public liability in the case of a motor accident. But if you turn around and poke a pupils eye out with a pen, slam their hand in the door, break their toes using the duals, cut themselves on a sharp part of the car, drop the bonnet on their fingers doing show me tell me etc. (you can see where this goes) then you can be sued for big money.

As for professional indemnity,  there has never been a case in English law of any ADI being sued,  for a number of reasons, including the enormous costs of even bringing a case to court, and the impossible task of proving negligence.

I have heard a solicitor explain some of the many cases taken up in our increasingly litigious society where he represented the clients. One six figure claim where an examiner claimed a whiplash injury whilst on test when the instructor was in the test centre. This was an injury because the pupil braked too hard, not an emergency stop so the action was that the Instructor taught braking incorrectly. This one was thrown out eventually because the examiners consultant could not prove a definite injury, but I personally wouldn't want months of hell waiting for a case to fall on a technicality. A more positive injury, broken bones, is easier to prove.

Without insurance this sort of claim, if won, could mean bankruptcy. Last time I consulted a business solicitor he cost £175 per hour so even losing can cost if you don't get costs awarded.

(No doubt some gullible person will now post one the very old and very silly stories which were invented by those trying to flog the insurance).

Some professions certainly do need the cover, where there is tangible and accountable evidence of proven  negligence, but in our situation that can't apply.

It's all hype, and it isn't even free.  You pay for useless insurance cover through membership fees.   There's more chance of winning the lottery than needing this type of cover as an ADI.

You are better off, and much more likely to benefit, by putting the money into sickness or critical illness insurance, or even a pension fund.


These are not silly stories they are happening. We run a driving school and take these things seriously because of a brush with legal matters that was none of our doing. Consequently, we insist our instructors have Liability and Inndemnity insurance so we don't get sued when a case comes up and they don't have insurance because they could turn round and then sue us because we provided the pupil.

To anybody out there who doesn't believe me ask somebody like the citizens advice bureau or pay for half an hour of solicitors time. These things are too important to leave to chance.

Carry on - I won't respond further so don't try and make me.

Colin


Colin Martin
The Bright Red L http://thebrightredl.com
Instructor Apps http://drivinginstructorapps.co.uk
Apps Video channel https://www.youtube.com/colinbythesea

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#20 13-12-05 19:35:06

Natalie
Member
From: Leeds, West Yorkshire
Registered: 03-03-04
Posts: 176

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

Im confused now  :oops:   Do I need both Liability and indemnity insurance?

Nats

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#21 13-12-05 19:52:51

Colin Martin
Verified Member
From: Southsea
Registered: 21-01-05
Posts: 2,465
Website

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

Natalie wrote:

Im confused now  :oops:   Do I need both Liability and indemnity insurance?

Nats

Yes

Liability for loss or injury caused to another whilst carrying out your business.

Professional Indemnity for errors due to your professional negligence, i.e. giving bad advice and that advice being used when somebody is driving whilst your not there which causes an incident.

Sorry if I confused.

You get these insurances along with loads of other services with the professional bodies - DIA, MSA and others. Or, you can just buy a policy from an insurance broker but you will find it very expensive compared to membership of a trade body.

Colin


Colin Martin
The Bright Red L http://thebrightredl.com
Instructor Apps http://drivinginstructorapps.co.uk
Apps Video channel https://www.youtube.com/colinbythesea

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#22 13-12-05 20:09:48

Badger
Guest

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

Good post Colin,  thank you.

Newbies take note !!

B


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#23 13-12-05 20:28:04

DAVE-ADI
Guest

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

These are not silly stories they are happening

If you can provide the case notes from a succesful case of an ADI in this country being sued  for professional negligence I'll donate £200 to a charity of your choice.

One six figure claim where an examiner claimed a whiplash injury whilst on test when the instructor was in the test centre. This was an injury because the pupil braked too hard, not an emergency stop so the action was that the Instructor taught braking incorrectly

What the hell has that got to do with ADI professional indemnity?
That would be covered under the car insurance, personal injury.

But if you turn around and poke a pupils eye out with a pen, slam their hand in the door, break their toes using the duals, cut themselves on a sharp part of the car, drop the bonnet on their fingers doing show me tell me etc. (you can see where this goes) then you can be sued for big money.

That would be assault.   Are you on something? 

Keep it reasonable.  Poke a pupils eye out??????  What the hell would you be waving a pen near someones eyes for?????


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#24 13-12-05 22:07:37

dth-adi
Verified Member
Registered: 19-09-04
Posts: 1,402

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

Quote:
But if you......drop the bonnet on their fingers doing show me tell me etc. (you can see where this goes) then you can be sued for big money.

That would be assault. Are you on something?

No, it's not assault! Assault is a positive plan to hurt someone and this hardly fits that category.

The above situation could easily happen if, for instance, the candidate opens the bonnet and tries to put the stay into the hole or hook or whatever and there is a fault with the mechanism that can be proved to have been there previously.

If the bonnet falls and as a result, the candidate (who is a 22 year old plumber in London with wife and kids etc), loses the use of his working hand, then these days, he would be likely to sue someone for the loss of earnings which would be considerable.

So who would he sue? The owner of the car and or the ADI that's who.

This example could be ridiculed but tell me 100% that such a scenario is impossible and I'll cancel my cover through a trade body.

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#25 13-12-05 22:10:13

DAVE-ADI
Guest

Re: Sickness Cover and Public Liability

This example could be ridiculed but tell me 100% that such a scenario is impossible and I'll cancel my cover through a trade body

Show me a case when PI has been needed and I'll pay your membership for the next three years.

I've just e mailed the insurance co. to ask how much it would cost to cover me for poking my pupil's eye out.  I'll post the answer if I get one lol

If the bonnet falls and as a result, the candidate (who is a 22 year old plumber in London with wife and kids etc), loses the use of his working hand, then these days, he would be likely to sue someone for the loss of earnings which would be considerable.

That is covered under public liability which, as already mentioned is included in your motor insurance.

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