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#1 09-08-05 16:18:03

BassGirl
Verified Member
Registered: 13-03-05
Posts: 191

help with psts

on pst 5 and 6 do you need to give a briefing on mirrors and signals or do you just do Q + A on the drive to the site?

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09-08-05 16:18:03

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Re: help with psts



#2 09-08-05 19:26:37

luchell
Guest

Re: help with psts

no briefing as they already have knowledge on it. ask some to the point recap questions and get them moving for mirrors. signals again check knowledge then go on to link it with pedestrian crossings


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#3 09-08-05 20:33:53

Calex
Member
From: Kent
Registered: 03-03-04
Posts: 11

Re: help with psts

Bass Girl

Listen to the word picture given to you at the start of the phase.

With the signals they quite often ask you to give them some "practical instruction on the use of signals by indicator and arm", so no briefing just Q& A.

The PST sheets give you a clue as to what you might Q & A him on, you will probably be asked to teach him how to do arm signals, this can be done at the side of the road you will need to go through the main three i.e Left, Right and Slowing down/Stop, make sure he winds the window all the way down and checks his right door mirror before sticking his arm out (MSM & safety) and watch him like a hawk to make sure he gets it correct.

Calex

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#4 10-08-05 07:57:14

BONNY1708
Member
Registered: 10-06-05
Posts: 97

Re: help with psts

Listen to the word picture given to you at the start of the phase.

I fully agree with this piece of advice:

I sat in the back of a part 3 pst 5 and the examiner said that he had only covered coordination skills so far and had not done much with mirrors. He was looking for a full briefing on the subject.

Soon after this, I had an ORDIT inspection. The student that I had was going to need this pst covering. I ran through my plan, (just coordination done), with my head of training who said that they never do it that way up here. (Pontefract) And to play the role of someone who only needs a Q+A session on it. Different examiners have their own view on what they are looking for in the part 3.

BONNY1708

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#5 10-08-05 09:03:27

dashdriving.com
Member
From: Yorkshire, Lincolnshire and Hu
Registered: 29-11-04
Posts: 148
Website

Re: help with psts

BONNY1708,

Couldn't agree with you more.

In the last few weeks, I've sat in on a few part 3's. It was interesting to get pst 6 with two different SE's . . .

The first said he needed brushing up on Reverse Park, and that his instructor had gone on holiday.

The second (a few days later) said that he'd never done reverse park before.

Thankfully, both trainees had listened carefully to the word picture and did very well.

Now, there's one to shock a few trainee's . . . a phase 2 where the SE had never done the subject before. Scary. This won't happen on any other pst (oops! there goes another can of worms)

In reality, it's dead simple. Just do what you should always do. Establish prior skills and build on them. Trainee asked the SE about reverse left/right and turn in the road. Briefly explained how to do the reverse park and then got on with it. Briefing lasted about 2 minutes, and even then the SE was getting bored.

Listen to what you are told, a few questions to establish what level of skill and knowledge the SE has, then teach the rest to fill any gaps.

By the way, almost every single time I've sat in on a signals pst, the SE has wound the window down and wanted to wave their arm out into the path of an oncoming truck.

Use it as a golden opportunity . . . it's a fault!!

Control the SE by anticipating this one and stopping them. Then identify and analyse it, by telling the SE that what they were going to do is dangerous and why.  Then remedy it, by getting them to check the blind spots before waving their little pinkies out the window.

The analysis is quite simple really . . . they either never knew not to do this, or forgot to check the blind spot. Either way, the SE will be happy that you simply stop them and tell them how to do it properly.

Cheers,

Dave H


Dave Hartley
ADI Trainer for Dash driving

www.dashdriving.com

you never do anything wrong,
you just find new ways of not doing it right.

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#6 10-08-05 21:44:09

jeni
Verified Member
From: Poole Dorset
Registered: 05-10-04
Posts: 444
Website

Re: help with psts

Hi All

Yes agree with Dash here

WHAT should you do BEFORE you signal (by arm or indicator?)

MIRRORs Please

So dont forget that while getting carried away getting the SE to do the arm signals and of course check the blind spots

So easy when you think about it - but easily forgotten

Regards

jeni


Jeni Holland ADI Driving Instructor Trainer (Passed Ordit 2006) Pay as you go trainer
www.abfabdec.co.uk

Poole Dorset 01202 259382

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#7 10-08-05 22:21:23

BONNY1708
Member
Registered: 10-06-05
Posts: 97

Re: help with psts

Hi All,

Has anyone heard this scenario before?

PST 6, phase 2 reverse park: "I have been banned from driving and ordered to take a re-test. I have had a few refresher lessons, but the instructor couldn't fit me in this week, so he suggested you, and said to cover the parallel park exercise".

In the Q+A it turns out that he had been driving for 20 years before his ban and was given 12 points for having 4 bald tyres. My student asked the clever question "have you ever done this before?" "two or three times a day for twenty years!" was the answer.

How would you handle this one then?

BONNY1708

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#8 10-08-05 22:36:27

Calex
Member
From: Kent
Registered: 03-03-04
Posts: 11

Re: help with psts

Hi Bonny1708

Used to get the reverse park phase as "Passed my test a number of years ago in an automatic, want to get a manual licence, when i did my test the reverse park was not part of it".

Ask him how he would do it, maybe very quick discusion about anything he's not mentioned, then ask him to demo it, watch him for faults and anyway that deviates from how he said he was going to do it and apply the core comps to it.

Don't ignore what he already knows and set about teaching him your fool proof method, there looking for flexability in how you adapt to the pupil.

Think that makes sense

Calex

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#9 10-08-05 23:01:25

dashdriving.com
Member
From: Yorkshire, Lincolnshire and Hu
Registered: 29-11-04
Posts: 148
Website

Re: help with psts

Bonny,

I'd be over the moon with this one. It's a doddle.

Just do what should be done at the start of every lesson - establish prior skills, a few knowledge check Q and A's, and teach any knowledge gaps if necessary. Teach from the known to the unknown.

A lesson is just a lesson. It doesn't matter who you're teaching or even what the subject is.

I'd be asking which obs they'd do and when, such as right shoulder check before swinging the car out etc.

Then get the driver to do a reverse park whilst you assess them, keeping the car safe and controlling the lesson. I'd do that by telling the driver (not asking) to do the exersise quite slowly first time out.

Point out any problems . . . more practice. Use core comp's on any faults. Over and done with.

I guess an SE using this scenario would probably introduce attitude to road safety as a fault. Needs analysing and remedial action, just like all the rest.

Has this been done on a part 3?

Never come across it, but I think it would be easier to deal with than a learner.

regards,

Dave H


Dave Hartley
ADI Trainer for Dash driving

www.dashdriving.com

you never do anything wrong,
you just find new ways of not doing it right.

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#10 11-08-05 00:26:25

T
Guest

Re: help with psts

Yes, definately listen to the word picture. On my phase 2 the SE stated that he had done the manoeuvre and just needed it brushed up. Silly me, went into full brief didn't i but luckily i came to my senses and said to him that since he has done it perhaps he could carry it out and i will see where i can help him. Salvaged a 5 for that. On the phase 1, doing the arm signals the SE said "but what if it's raining" i told him it was perfectly ok to bring a towel with him to dry off afterwards. Only got a 4 there, should've had a better joke.

#11 11-08-05 08:13:02

BONNY1708
Member
Registered: 10-06-05
Posts: 97

Re: help with psts

Dave H,

I sat in the back for this scenario, took me by surprise at the time. It was an examiner who was visiting Plymouth from Southampton, I believe.

My student thought about what to do, then just got him to do one.

The car was in reverse before he stopped going forwards!! :shock: He came back at (at least) 100mph whilst palming the wheel round. He then shunted back and forth twice to get in. He did this with NOT ONE look around at all.

My student, then proceeded to give him more or less a full briefing and they got it right second time.

The examiner only wanted a very quick rundown of the faults and then an opportunity to use his experience to put it right on his own.

Good news was that my student passed it but only with a 4. lol

BONNY1708

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#12 11-08-05 08:36:47

dashdriving.com
Member
From: Yorkshire, Lincolnshire and Hu
Registered: 29-11-04
Posts: 148
Website

Re: help with psts

Bonny,

Ha! The 100 mph bit is what I'm sure you'd expect as much as I would. That's why I'd tell him to do it slowly first time. Not that they'd take much notice! Sometimes I think being an SE must be a laugh a minute, some of the stunts they can pull.

It's interesting, and I'm going to have to keep this in mind, as I might have a part 3 test at Southampton in the next two weeks. It's one I've definitlely not seen done before.

regards,

Dave H


Dave Hartley
ADI Trainer for Dash driving

www.dashdriving.com

you never do anything wrong,
you just find new ways of not doing it right.

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