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#51 09-03-11 08:25:33

daz6215
Verified Member
Registered: 07-06-08
Posts: 449

Re: Class 1 police driving test

The gentleman who assessed me told me he had attended Cardington on behalf of the police, that might not be the policy where tou are but he had been there, or of course he might be lying which I strongly doubt, drivetech do use inhouse but they use ex class 1 so whats the issue there?

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09-03-11 08:25:33

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Re: Class 1 police driving test



#52 09-03-11 10:57:42

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: Class 1 police driving test

A Cardington DSA advanced test and a Roadcraft advanced test would be tested differently as they are being tested on two different styles of driving

As both are progressions from the basic test then it is just a matter of choice of style for the driver who wants to progress

There are many who have done both and those would be the ones who can tell what the differences are far better than I can





IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#53 09-03-11 11:31:01

daz6215
Verified Member
Registered: 07-06-08
Posts: 449

Re: Class 1 police driving test

I think we are going round in circles now, Im not talking about a Cardington driving test, Im talking about the body who checks examiners.

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#54 09-03-11 13:07:17

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: Class 1 police driving test

I think we are going round in circles now, Im not talking about a Cardington driving test, Im talking about the body who checks examiners.

Just like the DSA examiners, the police examiners test each other


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#55 09-03-11 13:11:13

daz6215
Verified Member
Registered: 07-06-08
Posts: 449

Re: Class 1 police driving test

no they dont, If someone is a trained delegated examiner testing to DSA standards they will check tested by DSA as are the army!

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#56 09-03-11 16:44:00

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: Class 1 police driving test

no they dont, If someone is a trained delegated examiner testing to DSA standards they will check tested by DSA as are the army!

I think that is what I said - the DSA are checking themselves


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#57 09-03-11 16:51:41

daz6215
Verified Member
Registered: 07-06-08
Posts: 449

Re: Class 1 police driving test

no the DSA check external bodies also. An Army examiner is not a DSA employee are they!

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#58 09-03-11 18:21:32

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: Class 1 police driving test

no the DSA check external bodies also. An Army examiner is not a DSA employee are they!

No they are not but they did exactly the same course and tests to examine on behalf of the DSA

What about the examiners directly employed by the DSA - who tests them?


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#59 09-03-11 18:35:59

daz6215
Verified Member
Registered: 07-06-08
Posts: 449

Re: Class 1 police driving test

Well I think you know the answer to that!


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#60 11-03-11 07:41:42

metalmicky
Verified Member
From: Chesterfield
Registered: 10-01-11
Posts: 802
Website

Re: Class 1 police driving test

We then come to the RoSPA Gold and where it stands in the police grading system. As I stated earlier a Gold will be awarded where a driver shows he has the potential to do well on a police Advanced Course. In other words he can only ever be a Class 3, (being that 1 and 2 are only awarded on an Advanced Course). So, the ability of the Examiner is always higher than the candidate.

 

Whilst this statement is no doubt true in the majority of cases, it is actually factually inaccurate.  It merely proves to be, that the Examiner has attained a higher qualification than the Candidate can ever achieve unless the Candidate is a serving Police Officer. 

A higher qualification does not automatically mean a higher ability.


Just because I'm a driving instructor, it doesn't make me a dual control freak. 
www.way-ahead-driving.co.uk

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#61 11-03-11 07:54:24

ratty
Member
Registered: 05-02-11
Posts: 466

Re: Class 1 police driving test

1   I've explained that RoSPA Gold equates to a police Class 3 (Intermediate level).  RoSPA's policy is to only have holders of an Advanced certificate as examiners. RoSPA make the policy. It doesn't have anything to do with the police.

2   I personally believe it should remain as it is. Look at comments made on this and other forums about observer/tutors and their interpretation of the system.

3   The jury is still out on RoadTest and the use of DriveTech staff as examiners. It hasn't been the groundbreaking wonder that was publicised at the launch.

Regarding
1 Interesting to hear the variations on this. Some forces do / did regard the intermediate qualification a class 5. Class 4 being a station van driving qualification and class 3 being a PSU qualification.

2 Here here.

3 I don't think Roadtest really caught on at all. Where possible RoSPA examiners were used anyway as opposed to the in house instructors. By the way, I've heard that Drivetech are about to introduce their own advanced driving test, it will be interesting to see what it is about and who examines.

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#62 11-03-11 08:23:23

ADI Education
Verified Member
From: Lincolnshire
Registered: 31-08-09
Posts: 351
Website

Re: Class 1 police driving test

trunkmonkey wrote:

We then come to the RoSPA Gold and where it stands in the police grading system. As I stated earlier a Gold will be awarded where a driver shows he has the potential to do well on a police Advanced Course. In other words he can only ever be a Class 3, (being that 1 and 2 are only awarded on an Advanced Course). So, the ability of the Examiner is always higher than the candidate.

 

Whilst this statement is no doubt true in the majority of cases, it is actually factually inaccurate.  It merely proves to be, that the Examiner has attained a higher qualification than the Candidate can ever achieve unless the Candidate is a serving Police Officer. 

* red,2,300

The criteria for attaining a class 1 or class 2 Police Advanced certificate is in a much higher league than that of attaining a Rospa gold.

So I think I would have to disagree with your statement.* red,2,300


I am a former Police Driving Instructor and Ex DSA ADI examiner. My qualifications include: BTEC Level 4 Police Driving Skills, BTEC Level 3 in Teaching Advanced driving, NVQ A1 Assessors awrard, DIAmond advanced test, RoSPA gold, Cardington A. I am a grade 6 DSA Instructor, fleet trained and a Class 1 Police Driver. www.janeclarkedrivinginstructortraining.co.uk

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#63 11-03-11 08:44:15

metalmicky
Verified Member
From: Chesterfield
Registered: 10-01-11
Posts: 802
Website

Re: Class 1 police driving test

Interesting that you disagree with a statement that is impossible to prove in favour of your statement. 

A higher qualification, no matter what field it is in DOES NOT automatically prove a greater ability in each and every case.  In the vast majority of cases yes it will mean the examiner has a greater ability, I am not trying to suggest otherwise.  But I am stating that it is "POSSIBLE" for a Candidate to have a greater ability than the Examiner.  Qualifications are graded and based on ability, so if I have a Gold rating at RoSPA, does that mean my driving can not be as good or better than the Examiner because he or she has a qualification I can never be given. 
A point you could not prove in court or anywhere else without giving me the opportunity to gain the said grade of Police Class 1 driver, which as a civilian I am unable to get.


Just because I'm a driving instructor, it doesn't make me a dual control freak. 
www.way-ahead-driving.co.uk

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#64 11-03-11 09:14:21

ratty
Member
Registered: 05-02-11
Posts: 466

Re: Class 1 police driving test

I have to agree with this actually.

I've often heard the formula 1 commentators saying 'these are the best drivers in the world' etc. They may well be the best who have had the chance to prove their ability, that is not the same as actually being the best. There could be many who are faster but have not had the chance (financial backing?) to prove it.

I don't think people can argue with that.

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#65 11-03-11 10:36:21

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: Class 1 police driving test

Page 47 of the book Mind Driving sets out a good description of the various stages


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#66 11-03-11 20:15:16

trunkmonkey
Member
Registered: 05-03-09
Posts: 747

Re: Class 1 police driving test

Interesting that you disagree with a statement that is impossible to prove in favour of your statement. 

A higher qualification, no matter what field it is in DOES NOT automatically prove a greater ability in each and every case.  In the vast majority of cases yes it will mean the examiner has a greater ability, I am not trying to suggest otherwise.  But I am stating that it is "POSSIBLE" for a Candidate to have a greater ability than the Examiner.  Qualifications are graded and based on ability, so if I have a Gold rating at RoSPA, does that mean my driving can not be as good or better than the Examiner because he or she has a qualification I can never be given. 
A point you could not prove in court or anywhere else without giving me the opportunity to gain the said grade of Police Class 1 driver, which as a civilian I am unable to get.

I don't doubt that is the case, after all we aren't born as Class 1's and I was a Class 3 on my first course at 19 which in my day was cars up to 2 litre.
I have often said that I am a Class 1 purely because I was fortunate to be in a position to get it - something the majority can't do. And I don't mean that disrespectfully.
There are a lot of Class 3's that would perform well on an Advanced Course, but equally there are those who I wouldn't let drive sheep.

The major difference I've noticed when testing for RoSPA is when I get an ex-police advanced driver. Everything is effortless. For years he has had to adapt to the rigours of police driving as per Roadcraft  -  multi-tasking, alertness,attention distribution,situational awareness anticipation,planning, making judgements. The performance is relaxed and efficient, making it appear that he has all the time in the world.

It's all about perception and reality. The perception is that everyone given the chance can be an Advanced driver, the reality is actually the opposite.
I have assessed drivers who have all the talent on show, temperament, skill, ability. Then take them out of their comfort zone and see how they react.

You only get one chance to do an Advanced assessment.

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#67 06-03-17 17:07:58

tomstevens
Member
From: Liverpool
Registered: 06-03-17
Posts: 1

Re: Class 1 police driving test

Hi this is my first post, great to be on the forum.
My experience was in Merseyside in the 70s and 80s.  There was a notoiceable difference between Class 1 and Class 2, so the examination process was definitely selecting on the basis of a real difference.  In my experience, a Class 2 was a competent class 3 but with further training. Class 1's were at a level beyond. You could tell, operationally, the difference was real.  There were class 3's (and even 4's in the 70s) who had superb potential but didn't get the opportunity for further training. So, some Class 3's were better than Class 2's (for sure).  I think it was a mistake to remove the Class 1 / Class 2 distinction and just have 'Advanced Pass'.  The pressure to achieve Class 1 induced the right kind of culture to bring out the best you could possibly be.  I'd also add however, that in my day, Class 3 drivers drove under much higher sustained pressure than most Traffic Officers and did so answering far more emergency calls and pursuits.  Paradoxically (perhaps) the fact that they did this in lower powred cars driven always on the limit, sharpened them and made them far better Advanced candidates.  No other profession or occupation has to drive under this kind of presure, nothing comes even remotely near it. Those who have done it know what I mean.

Last edited by tomstevens (06-03-17 20:27:45)

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