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#1 06-08-16 17:55:05

Lady-Hynarc
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Registered: 09-04-12
Posts: 646

Turn in the Road

Just out of interest do you teach pupils to turn the wheel to the left at the end of the first leg in preparation for the second leg?  I don't teach this because I believe it to be an old technique negated by power steering but I still see pupils being taught it so thought I'd ask.

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06-08-16 17:55:05

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Re: Turn in the Road



#2 06-08-16 18:51:24

pegasus
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From: north west
Registered: 25-02-05
Posts: 3,295

Re: Turn in the Road

Hi
Surely power steering only negates it if you dry steer.
I always taught the narrower the road the more useful counter-steering is.

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#3 06-08-16 19:12:40

kaf
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From: Wiltshire
Registered: 05-08-07
Posts: 3,321
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Re: Turn in the Road

Counter steering is unecessary.

It was indeed needed for non power steering cars.

But if you think of the logic, the earlier turn you get on the reverse leg, is negated by the loss of turn at the  end of the forward leg.

I've tried it both ways on narrow roads and found they work the same.

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#4 07-08-16 06:46:59

Triplea35
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Registered: 28-09-12
Posts: 496

Re: Turn in the Road

I agree with Kaf, counter steering is unecessary and makes no difference. No need to dry steer, it's just that power steering makes turning from full right lock to full left lock much easier and quicker.

When I trained to be an ADI six years ago I was told I needed to teach counter steer for Part 2 & 3 and was shown reference points, two on the first forward leg, point of counter steer and point of stop, two again on the reverse leg, and then one on the last leg to ensure not hitting the kerb. Hard enough for me as an experienced driver but when started to teach it found it far too complicated and confusing for real learners.

When I discovered it wasn't needed and started to teach without it it was totally evident how much easier it is for pupils. Less stress/focus on steering gives more time to concentrate on other requirements such as foot control, accuracy and observations.

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#5 07-08-16 09:35:14

Evan
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Registered: 27-12-09
Posts: 2,058

Re: Turn in the Road

A lot of pupils we get in the car now are not the best with coordination, in fact some struggle like hell! I tend to try and make it as easy as possible for them, those who are very good at multi tasking I will teach both ways and let them decide which suits them, those who struggle I just teach lock to lock steering!

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#6 07-08-16 11:28:20

kaf
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From: Wiltshire
Registered: 05-08-07
Posts: 3,321
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Re: Turn in the Road

For students with poor coordination, counter steering creates a problem.
At the start of the next leg, which way do I turn the wheel?

Without counter steering there is no issue, it will only go one way!

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#7 07-08-16 12:03:29

Evan
Administrator
Registered: 27-12-09
Posts: 2,058

Re: Turn in the Road

Exactly right Kaf

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#8 31-08-16 19:00:48

Macallan
Member
Registered: 31-01-14
Posts: 10

Re: Turn in the Road

I thought point of countersteering/unwinding when you near the curb is to help you do the manoeuvre in as few movements as possible?

otherwise surely for the first part of the second or any consecutive movements when you move away from the curb in the opposite direction to how you arrived, if you havent unwound the steering a little you will (for the first few seconds) move back into same place you have just come from, thereby making it more difficult for yourself in a tight road?

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#9 01-09-16 06:36:23

Triplea35
Verified Member
Registered: 28-09-12
Posts: 496

Re: Turn in the Road

But you have already gained more turn in the first place by not counter steering so balances itself out and there is no difference.

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#10 02-09-16 19:41:25

kaf
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From: Wiltshire
Registered: 05-08-07
Posts: 3,321
Website

Re: Turn in the Road

Exactly, simple trigonometry.

Swings and roundabouts.

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#11 02-09-16 20:04:38

pegasus
Verified Member
From: north west
Registered: 25-02-05
Posts: 3,295

Re: Turn in the Road

Hi
I notice that nobody has mentioned the effect of the camber of the road. Where I was working we had some very severe cambers and counter steering avoided A) finishing the first move with a straight drop down towards the kerb, but putting the front wheels on less of a slope this then resulted in a less severe uphill start to the reverse. A similar effect is then achieved between the reverse and the next forward move.

Last edited by pegasus (02-09-16 20:05:12)

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#12 04-09-16 19:07:10

kaf
Verified Member
From: Wiltshire
Registered: 05-08-07
Posts: 3,321
Website

Re: Turn in the Road

Surely, counter steering makes the effect of camber worse, the wheels, instead of pointing at an angle to the far kerb, will be pointing more directly at them.
On the reverse leg, the wheels will be on the crown of the road, so less affected by any camber anyway.

Of course much depends on the angle achieved with the car in any case.

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