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#1 19-06-15 17:52:36

trunkmonkey
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Registered: 05-03-09
Posts: 747

B+E licence

From a caravan mag.
Guy with a post 97 licence wants to take his BE test. He holds C and C1 having passed the C test.
He has been told, this is confirmed by DVLA, that his C1 licence allows him to tow a combination up to 7.5 tonnes. He does not need to sit the B+E test.
New one on me and it doesn't seem right, but with DVLA confirmation?

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19-06-15 17:52:36

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Re: B+E licence



#2 20-06-15 09:28:13

reddragonbus
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From: Edinburgh
Registered: 05-02-06
Posts: 1,656

Re: B+E licence

C and C1 licence holders can tow up to 750kg behind those vehicles without sitting another test.

I have presented plenty of people for B+E tests who hold category C entitlement.

If passing a category C rigid test upgraded to B+E it should show on the licence and or prevent someone booking a B+E test.

But if it is in a magazine it must be true.


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#3 20-06-15 11:05:13

trunkmonkey
Member
Registered: 05-03-09
Posts: 747

Re: B+E licence

It was in the letters column so the caravan mag is hardly culpable.

Your first paragraph is correct. However The Transport Managers Handbook gives legal examples regarding combinations:
5tonnes drawing vehicle towing a 2tonnes trailer is legal without sitting a C1E test.
What the test allows is towing a combination up to 12tonnes

The correspondent is citing this as his reason, DVLA agree, the legal section of the mag don`t agree and have written to DVLA.
I don't agree as C1 relates to goods vehicles whilst B+E is passenger.

Last edited by trunkmonkey (20-06-15 11:07:15)

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#4 20-06-15 11:28:58

reddragonbus
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From: Edinburgh
Registered: 05-02-06
Posts: 1,656

Re: B+E licence

Not sure where the transport managers handbook get their information?

This is the information the DVLA have been pumping out for years:

Medium-sized vehicles
Category C1

You can drive vehicles weighing between 3,500 and 7,500kg (with a trailer up to 750kg).

Category C1+E

You can drive C1 category vehicles with a trailer over 750kg, but the trailer - when fully loaded - can’t weigh more than the vehicle.

The combined weight of both can’t exceed 12,000kg.


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#5 20-06-15 11:52:07

trunkmonkey
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Registered: 05-03-09
Posts: 747

Re: B+E licence

It's the "combination" that throws people.

I was delivering CPC last year and a lad presented his licence C1E (107). During the morning he said he used a crew cab tipper plated at 6.5 tonnes towing a trailer plated at 4 tonnes. I pulled him up on that, and explained the illegality, No licence and No Insurance.
Took it to the Transport Manager and had a meeting with VOSA. They said if we could get the combination to below 8250kgs it would be legal and not require two tests.
We couldn't do that so now I have six drivers to sit C1 and then C1E

Last edited by trunkmonkey (20-06-15 11:52:57)

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#6 20-06-15 12:05:02

reddragonbus
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From: Edinburgh
Registered: 05-02-06
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Re: B+E licence

Yes he had C1E

a lad presented his licence C1E (107)

Not towing on C1


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#7 20-06-15 12:13:16

reddragonbus
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From: Edinburgh
Registered: 05-02-06
Posts: 1,656

Re: B+E licence

Full category held     New test passed         Upgrading
B, C1                            C1+E                         B+E

Last edited by reddragonbus (20-06-15 12:14:15)


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#8 20-06-15 12:15:03

reddragonbus
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From: Edinburgh
Registered: 05-02-06
Posts: 1,656

Re: B+E licence

If you have a licence with entitlements for vehicle categories B and C1 and then pass the C1+E test, you’ll not only get entitlement to drive C1+E vehicles, but will also be automatically upgraded to drive B+E category vehicles.


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#9 20-06-15 12:17:58

trunkmonkey
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Registered: 05-03-09
Posts: 747

Re: B+E licence

He had a 107 restriction.

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#10 20-06-15 12:23:15

reddragonbus
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From: Edinburgh
Registered: 05-02-06
Posts: 1,656

Re: B+E licence

I get the 107 restriction, but he held a +E entitlement.

We were discussing C1 upgrading B+E?

The DVSA believe you need to sit the C1+E test to upgrade to B+E


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#11 20-06-15 12:44:09

(ROG)
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From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: B+E licence

reddragonbus wrote:

I get the 107 restriction, but he held a +E entitlement.

We were discussing C1 upgrading B+E?

The DVSA believe you need to sit the C1+E test to upgrade to B+E

Sort of true

Passing C1+E will also give B+E

I reckon its how the question was asked to the DVLA

Was the DVLA answer given verbally or by email ?


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#12 21-06-15 20:28:22

trunkmonkey
Member
Registered: 05-03-09
Posts: 747

Re: B+E licence

reddragonbus wrote:

If you have a licence with entitlements for vehicle categories B and C1 and then pass the C1+E test, you’ll not only get entitlement to drive C1+E vehicles, but will also be automatically upgraded to drive B+E category vehicles.

Hi,
I'm aware of all of that and prior to yesterday I would have said that was that.

Your comment You can drive vehicles weighing between 3,500 and 7,500kg (with a trailer up to 750kg)
I have always looked at it just like that. But both VOSA and the handbook state that the 750kgs is only relevant when the drawing vehicle weighs 7500kgs (7500 + 750 = 8250).
If the drawing vehicle weighed 6500kgs, then a trailer weighing 1750kgs can be towed (6500+1750 = 8250).


He is using the fact that he can drive any combination up to 8250kgs on his C1 and that will cover him for any car and caravan combo because he'll always be under that figure.

Do I agree? No, but I'm interested as to DVLA's reasoning.

He said he'd had this confirmed by DVLA. The legal section of the magazine said they would write to DVLA and publish a reply next month.

Last edited by trunkmonkey (21-06-15 20:31:15)

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#13 21-06-15 20:46:26

reddragonbus
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From: Edinburgh
Registered: 05-02-06
Posts: 1,656

Re: B+E licence

That does not make any sense at all:

C1E Vehicles between 3500kg
and 7500kg with a trailer
over 750kg

How does that work with D1 ?

There is no weight limit on a minibus.


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#14 21-06-15 21:26:19

reddragonbus
Verified Member
From: Edinburgh
Registered: 05-02-06
Posts: 1,656

Re: B+E licence

I trawled through the road traffic act, not been in there for while.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1999 … ule/2/made

C1    A sub-category of category C comprising motor vehicles having a maximum authorised mass exceeding 3.5 tonnes but not exceeding 7.5 tonnes, including any such vehicle drawing a trailer having a maximum authorised mass not exceeding 750 kilograms.

C1+E   
A sub-category of category C+E comprising combinations of a motor vehicle and trailer where:

(a)the tractor vehicle is in sub-category C1,
(b)the maximum authorised mass of the trailer exceeds 750 kilograms but not the unladen weight of the tractor vehicle, and
(c)the maximum authorised mass of the combination does not exceed 12 tonnes.


B   
Motor vehicles, other than vehicles included in category A, F, K or P, having a maximum authorised mass not exceeding 3.5 tonnes and not more than eight seats in addition to the driver’s seat, including:

(i)a combination of any such vehicle and a trailer where the trailer has a maximum authorised mass not exceeding 750 kilogrammes, and
(ii)a combination of any such vehicle and a trailer where the maximum authorised mass of the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes and the maximum authorised mass of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the tractor vehicle.


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#15 22-06-15 07:06:04

(ROG)
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From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: B+E licence

Have you also got the amendments to that act which occurred on 19/01/2013 where the max mass MAM for B+E is now 7000 kg by default
3500 vehicle
3500 trailer

The new amendment states that any trailer over 3500 now need a C1+E - unlikely to affect many me thinks as trailers over 3500 must have more than just over-run brakes


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