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#1 11-06-15 17:25:17

CantThinkofaName
Verified Member
Registered: 01-01-12
Posts: 294

Driving standards, is it just me?

Driving standards seem to be declining everyday but I notice some things road users are doing more and more and wonder is it just me more aware of it or do others notice?

People jumping red lights long after red and even creeping through treating them more like a give way. Want to turn right but can't be bothered waiting in traffic so drive on wrong side of the road for a considerable distance to get into the junction. Cyclists going against the traffic flow in on road cycle lanes; today we were behind a cyclist who was going the correct way then one comes the opposite direction and swerves into our path to pass him. Pedestrians who think it's smart to just walk out without looking and expect you to stop even when there's a crossing on a few metres.


DKL Driving School Belfast www.drivinglessonsbelfast.co.uk

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11-06-15 17:25:17

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Re: Driving standards, is it just me?



#2 11-06-15 18:33:32

Mentor
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Registered: 22-10-05
Posts: 387

Re: Driving standards, is it just me?

No it's not just you. Everything you have listed I see almost every day plus an increase in speeding, parking just anywhere with no regard for other road users, tailgating, lane hogging, ignoring Stop signs and a general lack of courtesy. Pedestrians so glued to a mobile phone that they have zero awareness of anything around them. I really don't know why people still want to learn to drive given the poor state of driving today, yet the demand is higher than it has ever been. Give me back the 1970s and my Ford Escort Sport, a time when driving was a pleasure.

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#3 11-06-15 19:09:26

kaf
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From: Wiltshire
Registered: 05-08-07
Posts: 3,328
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Re: Driving standards, is it just me?

Definitely not just you!

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#4 11-06-15 20:25:45

Evan
Administrator
Registered: 27-12-09
Posts: 2,058

Re: Driving standards, is it just me?

To be honest the job is a lot harder now, idiot behaviour from "qualified" drivers and a lack of effort from quite a few pupils.
Damn this attitude of lack of responsibility, accountability and making allowances for people who choose to be idiots. The whole of society not just driving is a mess, because everyone has to tread on eggshells around thicko's who are streetwise but actually know very little of any worth, make the most noise about their rights when they cock up and blame everyone but themselves!

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#5 11-06-15 23:45:07

Zipper
Verified Member
From: Darwin, Northern Territory Aus
Registered: 20-08-04
Posts: 2,695
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Re: Driving standards, is it just me?

Nicely said, Evan.
The situation down here is the same - modern society's moral standards are slipping, and respect for other people is decreasing.
Western society is following the USA's lead in adopting a fast-paced lifestyle while chasing the almighty dollar/pound/whatever.

South Australia has a lot of ex-pat Brits and is generally more polite and orderly than the NT which is a genuine "wild frontier".
When I first arrived here from S.A. I immediately noticed the aggressiveness and impatience of the macho male drivers in their Toyota, Nissan or Jeep4WD's with massive bullbars (in the days before airbags), yet once outside their vehicle they were usually friendly and obliging.
What worries me is that NT females drivers are now just as bad as their male counterparts.

It wasn't that long ago a front page photo in the local paper showed a man leaning through the window of a car and punching the elderly male driver because he was too slow reversing into a parking bay.
prior to that was a verbal altercation between a 4WD driver and a moped rider in Darwin city.
During the argument the 4WD driver told the rider that he he should have run over him, the rider replied "go ahead then" and got back onto his moped.
The driver hopped into his 4WD and did just that, putting the rider in hospital - scary isn't it.
Road rage is getting much worse here, and is more likely to go from assault to actual battery - do you think the situation in the UK is the same?


Zipper ("G'Day Mate!")
I'm not 65! I'm only $59.95+tax
www.drivingnt.com

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#6 12-06-15 06:57:15

Robbie
Verified Member
From: Shrewsbury
Registered: 29-02-04
Posts: 1,230
Website

Re: Driving standards, is it just me?

No I see this every day and more.
Still a considerable amount of people driving while on phone and without seatbelts.
Not signaling on roundabouts, and incorrect lanes
Parking on zigzags outside schools.
Turning right at no right turn junctions when the paving has been modified to prevent it.

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#7 12-06-15 10:31:37

Evan
Administrator
Registered: 27-12-09
Posts: 2,058

Re: Driving standards, is it just me?

People seem to think the have they right to not conform and break the rules. The fall out is cock ups and accidents, give a fool too much rope and they invariably hang themselves and or someone else!

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#8 12-06-15 10:55:53

Lady-Hynarc
Verified Member
Registered: 09-04-12
Posts: 650

Re: Driving standards, is it just me?

So, if driving standards are dropping - and I see it as well, every day - how is it that the KSI stats are also dropping?  We know that technology has an impact as does road design but if more road traffic law is being broken (which our recent experiences suggest it is) and if those laws make sense (which, admittedly, is questionable), then KSI should be on the increase, shouldn't it?

The government takes great delight in pointing at the reduction in accidents to justify their approach and that actually decreasing on-road police presence is not having a detrimental effect on driving standards.  In these days of results based government activity it doesn't matter how dangerous it gets out there on the roads, if the stats support their policy, that's all that matters.  For example, the award that the government won for the introduction of the hazard perception test was used as a justification for their action even though there was no actual proof that it made any difference at all.

At the moment the examples of bad driving we all see are just that, examples, but as more and more inexperienced drivers get on the roads and begin to copy those examples, even more badly, the effect is going to be massive and horrendous.  We are going to see an explosion of very serious town-centre based incidents and, by that time, fixing the problem may be totally beyond us.

Legislation makes people stupid - "If no-one tells me I can't do it, then I can".  No consideration for the possible consequences at all.  Furthermore, not enforcing legislation makes people unaware that what they are doing is wrong, selfish and potentially dangerous.

Unfortunately it doesn't matter how good we are as ADI's and how well we teach our pupils we are going to be swept away in the tsunami of bad driving that is coming... and it is coming!

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#9 12-06-15 15:05:06

Evan
Administrator
Registered: 27-12-09
Posts: 2,058

Re: Driving standards, is it just me?

Let's be honest everybody is making a fuss about the dangers on the road, the incidence of accidents regarding young people etc.
What role are the parents taking in all of this, when I was a young teenager my father gave me a man to man talk about not breaking the law, not bringing the police to the door, not getting a girl pregnant, the fact that if I wanted to live in his house when I left school I had to get a job, pay my mother board and lodge and become a responsible law abiding person with respect for others and the law.
It worked my friends fathers all gave them the same kind of talk, we complied or got dealt with severely.

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#10 12-06-15 18:34:30

Lewinpeter1
Verified Member
From: Morpeth,Northumberland
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 803
Website

Re: Driving standards, is it just me?

Hi
Evan for next Prime Minister.
big_smile
I remember that conversation.
Peter


Dont press that,oh @@##!

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#11 12-06-15 18:36:20

Robbie
Verified Member
From: Shrewsbury
Registered: 29-02-04
Posts: 1,230
Website

Re: Driving standards, is it just me?

Agree with thar totally Evan,
My parents were same with me, but why is it not acceptable to do the same with our children now ?

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#12 12-06-15 20:06:05

kaf
Verified Member
From: Wiltshire
Registered: 05-08-07
Posts: 3,328
Website

Re: Driving standards, is it just me?

KSI reductions are to a great extent down to secondary safety improvements in vehicles, improved medical techniques and faster collision to hospital times.

Driving standards are better assessed by looking at the number of collisions. Might find a different story there.

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#13 13-06-15 06:31:27

Evan
Administrator
Registered: 27-12-09
Posts: 2,058

Re: Driving standards, is it just me?

Robbie wrote:

Agree with thar totally Evan,
My parents were same with me, but why is it not acceptable to do the same with our children now ?


What upset the all knowing, the pampered, the pouting Prince and Princesses, the ones who must only be given praise and go off in a strop if they are challenged, the ones who know it all, but struggle to write a paragraph and punctuate it properly, can't add up, subtract or multiply, and are so besotted with themselves that they constantly take selfies to remind everyone how wonderful they are? Well we can't have a straight talk to them can we?
I talked to a pupil about his AS exams yesterday, he told me he would rather spend his time working with past exam papers. That speaks volumes to me, just learn the answers, not the reasoning or theory behind the question, exactly what a lot do with the theory test, the worst of it is they are being schooled to think and learn in exactly this fashion, when they get into a car and start learning lots struggle.
When I was training to be an instructor one of the paths taught was taking a pupil from the known to the unknown and using previous experience, many have had life experience and situations stifled by over protective parenting, of course Johnny is bound to be good at driving, he is studying for his A levels and wants to go to Uni and get a degree! So he won't need more than 10 hours of lessons to pass will he?

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#14 13-06-15 08:05:34

johnp
Verified Member
From: Dorset
Registered: 04-03-06
Posts: 2,636

Re: Driving standards, is it just me?

Great post Evan !!
They are reactive in their thinking.
Needs must.
It is a waste of their time / effort  to plan or think ahead.

Last edited by johnp (13-06-15 08:06:12)


Driving is books-
1. "safe and responsible INDEPENDENCE."
2. "DISABILITY into ABILITY" 
3. "PSYCHOLOGY than SYSTEMS.
www.drivingincludesu.co.uk

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#15 13-06-15 09:11:39

Zipper
Verified Member
From: Darwin, Northern Territory Aus
Registered: 20-08-04
Posts: 2,695
Website

Re: Driving standards, is it just me?

Selfies! The modern penchant for taking selfies sums up the modern attitude: it's all about moi.

Last edited by Zipper (13-06-15 13:24:19)


Zipper ("G'Day Mate!")
I'm not 65! I'm only $59.95+tax
www.drivingnt.com

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#16 13-06-15 20:15:36

Robbie
Verified Member
From: Shrewsbury
Registered: 29-02-04
Posts: 1,230
Website

Re: Driving standards, is it just me?

Agreed totally Evan.

Sometimes I wander with some if mummy still lays their clothes on bed each morning for them to wear for college or work, and makes their breakfast etc .
As for theory, I tell them they need to read and study the Driving skills workbook, which I lend then ,and highway code ,but they didn't need to do that as they can answer questions on apps.

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#17 13-06-15 23:26:38

Zipper
Verified Member
From: Darwin, Northern Territory Aus
Registered: 20-08-04
Posts: 2,695
Website

Re: Driving standards, is it just me?

Slightly off topic but do you think it's better to get the theory out of the way before they're allowed on the roads (as in Australia)?
The way I see it - it's easier to teach driving skills if the learner already has a good idea of their give-way obligations and the meaning of signs & road markings.  As we go along, I reinforce their existing knowledge and add stuff they don't know or had forgotten.
On the other hand, learning road rules (esp. defensive driving) is harder because they can't relate to what they're being taught without the on-road experience.

Last edited by Zipper (14-06-15 00:04:35)


Zipper ("G'Day Mate!")
I'm not 65! I'm only $59.95+tax
www.drivingnt.com

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#18 14-06-15 07:16:17

Evan
Administrator
Registered: 27-12-09
Posts: 2,058

Re: Driving standards, is it just me?

If the theory is studied properly Zipper yes, if you consider the scenario I had yesterday with a pupil who has passed his theory test recently, has had 15 hours with a previous instructor and 17 hours with me.
Entering a NSL dual carriageway, question " what is the speed limit on this road?" answer "50, 60, 70 mph" he didn't know which, compounded by the fact that we travel back on the same road most lessons.
He told me before he went for his theory he would probably fail, he scraped through memorising answers, exactly how he has been taught to do so throughout his schooling.
When the powers that be want to raise questions over why accidents are happening on our roads, they need to take a lateral look at what is happening with the raw material (pupil) in other areas.
Interestingly research carried out recently suggests that whilst individuals may leave school with qualifications, many are unemployable because of gaps in basic knowledge, the other factor is that many just cannot apply themselves or concentrate for any length of time.
Some get out of the car at the end of a lesson more interested in who has been texting them over the last two hours then listening to targets for the next lesson, exactly the attitude that renders them unemployable and a risk on the road.
Consider the fact that it is illegal to use a phone whilst driving, add the publicity surrounding accidents that happen due to their use whilst driving, but many still continue to do it feeling it is more important to prioritise a text message then keeping a ton of metal with wheels safe on the road! I see many young drivers who must have passed their test fairly recently judging by their ages texting and talking on the phone whilst driving, ADI's don't encourage this, the law frowns upon it, but they ignore the advice because they think they know better, add the fact that the ability to multi task is abysmal now, and there is recipe for an accident.
I even bought £30 worth of Highway Code books last year and gave them out to pupils to study, rather than use the discs and apps, however they prefer the easy route!

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#19 14-06-15 18:25:36

CantThinkofaName
Verified Member
Registered: 01-01-12
Posts: 294

Re: Driving standards, is it just me?

Evan wrote:

Consider the fact that it is illegal to use a phone whilst driving, add the publicity surrounding accidents that happen due to their use whilst driving, but many still continue to do it feeling it is more important to prioritise a text message then keeping a ton of metal with wheels safe on the road! I see many young drivers who must have passed their test fairly recently judging by their ages texting and talking on the phone whilst driving, ADI's don't encourage this, the law frowns upon it, but they ignore the advice because they think they know better, add the fact that the ability to multi task is abysmal now, and there is recipe for an accident.

Here in NI we have the 'R' plate for drivers who have passed their test less than a year so the new drivers are easy to spot and it is shocking how many I see using mobiles and speeding, often at the same time. Last week I drove passed a car displaying an 'R' plate sitting front end wrecked in the middle of a busy 30mph road and a central reservation bollard demolished. He must have hit the kerb at some speed, no other cars where involved so how do you do that unless not paying attention.


DKL Driving School Belfast www.drivinglessonsbelfast.co.uk

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#20 15-06-15 10:13:29

Evan
Administrator
Registered: 27-12-09
Posts: 2,058

Re: Driving standards, is it just me?

In the last 3 years locally we have had three 17 year olds killed in dreadful accidents, these accidents have been widely publicised on TV and the newspapers, but this doesn't seem to influence how people drive.

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#21 15-06-15 11:57:06

Zipper
Verified Member
From: Darwin, Northern Territory Aus
Registered: 20-08-04
Posts: 2,695
Website

Re: Driving standards, is it just me?

Evan wrote:

If the theory is studied properly Zipper yes, ...

I can usually tell during the first few lessons if the learner has done one of my theory classes, or classes run by other instructors, or were self-taught (often the worse).
I take my theory seriously, I spent a lot of time designing each session and developed a set of graphic-intensive PowerPoint presentations, which the authorities adopted as official training material and distributed it to the other theory providers.
Most don't use it, the feedback I get is that they stand up front and read from the Road User's Handbook (not a great bit of classroom kit in itself).
And, even when students know they got some final test answers wrong, they found out they were marked correct anyway (no-one fails these classes, you see).
All the others do the course over 6 hours or less, I can't find a way of doing in less than 9 without feeling bad that I've skipped too much material.

I also offer private tuition for those who've failed their written test for the NT Learner Licence, they aren't all that successful and it's obvious why they failed their first attempt(s), they don't apply themselves.
I've only had success with mature adults.

Evan wrote:

... these accidents have been widely publicised on TV and the newspapers, but this doesn't seem to influence how people drive.

No, shocking people doesn't seem to work.
I don't know why, but it seems to me that even when confronted with shocking reality, drivers might consider the message, but forget it all when they get behind the wheel.
When I was young (early seventies) I escorted a young lady to a "police lecture" evening at the local theatre, mandatory for people committing certain traffic offences.
She asked me to go with her because they showed some very gruesome real-life close up colour movies of American dead & dying crash victims (I think they were taken by people first at the scene who thought they couldn't assist, but thought to film it roll ).
It was horrible! Yet after a few years the authorities admitted it didn't seem to affect driving behaviour and they were stopped.

Last edited by Zipper (15-06-15 22:24:01)


Zipper ("G'Day Mate!")
I'm not 65! I'm only $59.95+tax
www.drivingnt.com

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#22 15-06-15 21:04:16

Evan
Administrator
Registered: 27-12-09
Posts: 2,058

Re: Driving standards, is it just me?

If people are that stupid that they don't realise they need to know the rules, signs and road markings, and think that they can take chances in a car and will always get away with it, maybe they are beyond help. Old saying about horse to water, springs to mind!

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#23 17-06-15 12:38:08

la.monikita
Verified Member
From: SE LONDON / KENT
Registered: 12-03-05
Posts: 3,064

Re: Driving standards, is it just me?

Evan wrote:

In the last 3 years locally we have had three 17 year olds killed in dreadful accidents, these accidents have been widely publicised on TV and the newspapers, but this doesn't seem to influence how people drive.

I put a link on one of the FB ADI forums; https://www.facebook.com/pages/1st-Lond … 3193544266 "As driving instructors what do you do to stop this from happening?"

As usual I seem to have had abuse. No one seems to want to take responsibility.


"What is necessary to change a person is to change his awareness of himself."
Abraham Maslow

21st Century Women http://www.loisontheloose.com/my-advent … /the-team/

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#24 17-06-15 15:29:16

Lady-Hynarc
Verified Member
Registered: 09-04-12
Posts: 650

Re: Driving standards, is it just me?

la.monikita wrote:
Evan wrote:

In the last 3 years locally we have had three 17 year olds killed in dreadful accidents, these accidents have been widely publicised on TV and the newspapers, but this doesn't seem to influence how people drive.

I put a link on one of the FB ADI forums; https://www.facebook.com/pages/1st-Lond … 3193544266 "As driving instructors what do you do to stop this from happening?"

As usual I seem to have had abuse. No one seems to want to take responsibility.

I don't think you've had abuse as such.  As people we all have different values, concerns and fears.  Expressing a harsh view (if that's what it is) is something that some people don't like and therefore defend against.  Being definitive in an opinion is obviously something you feel comfortable with but there will inevitably be those that don't feel so comfortable when confronted by such an opinion.  As for me I think it is important to try to confront dangerous behaviour and as such I do tend to call a spade a spade.  However, I also recognise that without the full facts it is impossible to know who should carry responsibility for this tragedy and therefore who should be blamed.  It is possible, although unlikely, that no-one was directly to blame but until such time as that information becomes known, if indeed it ever does, we cannot make definitive assumptions...

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#25 17-06-15 21:02:40

la.monikita
Verified Member
From: SE LONDON / KENT
Registered: 12-03-05
Posts: 3,064

Re: Driving standards, is it just me?

Lady-Hynarc wrote:
la.monikita wrote:
Evan wrote:

In the last 3 years locally we have had three 17 year olds killed in dreadful accidents, these accidents have been widely publicised on TV and the newspapers, but this doesn't seem to influence how people drive.

I put a link on one of the FB ADI forums; https://www.facebook.com/pages/1st-Lond … 3193544266 "As driving instructors what do you do to stop this from happening?"

As usual I seem to have had abuse. No one seems to want to take responsibility.

I don't think you've had abuse as such.  As people we all have different values, concerns and fears.  Expressing a harsh view (if that's what it is) is something that some people don't like and therefore defend against.  Being definitive in an opinion is obviously something you feel comfortable with but there will inevitably be those that don't feel so comfortable when confronted by such an opinion.  As for me I think it is important to try to confront dangerous behaviour and as such I do tend to call a spade a spade.  However, I also recognise that without the full facts it is impossible to know who should carry responsibility for this tragedy and therefore who should be blamed.  It is possible, although unlikely, that no-one was directly to blame but until such time as that information becomes known, if indeed it ever does, we cannot make definitive assumptions...

The unfortunate cases of crashes have the usual reason of driving too fast for conditions with nil understanding of how gravity is going to affect the car and the possible consequences.  No one really wants to cause death and injury, but so many have no idea why it happens that they lose control and crash. This is the road https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Bro … 9d43?hl=en

This is the story; http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/broml … s/?ref=rss

I have had so many "second hand" pupils who, thank god failed tests and ended up driving with me. Their lack of knowledge and understanding was dreadfully appalling.

I, personally feel that is up to me to make sure that knowledge is understood. It's my moral responsibility to create thinking drivers.

I don't believe learning is done after the test, all foundations have to be set well before, so experience is built on solid knowledge and understanding. Not on haphazard experimentation coupled with peer pressure. 

Too many people try and put the blame on young age and inexperience. Most young drivers have no idea of gravitational cornering forces, as no one has ever taught them. 

Do people know why you should wear seatbelts in the back? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … crash.html
One instructor mentioned  a tragic accident. Rear passenger wasn't wearing a seat belt, driver clips a grass verge, flips the car. The back passenger kills the driver by pushing her out. "Tragic accident"? All avoidable if people understood what happens without the rear seatbelt, and understood what the car does on a country lane.

Manslaughter charge should be in place for a driver who kills his passenger due to driving dangerously. http://www.roadpeace.org/change/chargin … c_charges/
Currently there are no deterrents for those who are ignorant of the consequences of their behaviour behind the wheel. 

Unfortunately, the real facts don't often make it into the public domain after the event. So we can never show what really happened as if it had become a taboo, or maybe it just does not make it worth publishing. Does anyone want to know the truth?


"What is necessary to change a person is to change his awareness of himself."
Abraham Maslow

21st Century Women http://www.loisontheloose.com/my-advent … /the-team/

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