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#1 23-04-15 13:16:28

ratty
Member
Registered: 05-02-11
Posts: 466

Driving a mini bus in France.

Hello

Can someone tell me the rules about driving a mini but in France please?

I'm sure that I remember from somewhere that a driver has to have more than just a 'grandfather rites' D1 to do this. When my team decided to go to France some years ago I was the only one who had a full PSV licence so I was the only one who could drive. I know that a tacho has to be fitted and used, but I'm wondering about the licence.

If a school decided to go on a trip to France does the teacher / driver have to have passed a full D or D1 test with medical etc? Would it make any difference if the driver was not a teacher but a parent?

Thanks very much

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23-04-15 13:16:28

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Re: Driving a mini bus in France.



#2 23-04-15 15:36:14

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: Driving a mini bus in France.

The rest of the EU does not recognise codes over 99 so the 101 means nothing and it gets taken as D1 without any code

Same EU tacho regs apply if a commercial thing but exempt if private


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Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#3 23-04-15 17:53:34

RobC
Verified Member
From: Nr Ormskirk Lancs
Registered: 28-01-09
Posts: 765
Website

Re: Driving a mini bus in France.

If driving a minibus abroad in France or a EU country, you must be certain you are not driving for hire or reward and even if driving for private use, you must use a Tachograph, Speed limiter, Own Account Certificate or EU Journey Form (Waybill) and comply with Driver’s Hours Regulations.

It may be possible to drive in another EU country if the minibus is not being used for hire or reward but depends on how the trip is being paid for. You must be certain that passengers are not contributing to the cost of their trip in any way, even if part of a larger charge for a holiday. In reality this seldom applies. If passengers are contributing then all drivers must have full D1 or D entitlement, obtained by passing a PCV D/D1 driving test.

a/Where the operation of a minibus is genuinely not for hire or reward, drivers with D1 (101) may drive abroad. Drivers aged 70 or older have to pass a PCV medical and apply to the DVLA to retain their D1 101 entitlement, this will then be shown on their licence as a D1 120 or D1 79 (NFHR).

b/ Drivers who only have category B entitlement on their licences (ie licences issued 1st January 1997 onwards) must NOT drive a minibus abroad, even if it is not being used for hire and reward.

c/ On old style 'pink or green' driving licences issued before 1st June 1990, 'A' rather than 'D1' is shown on the licences. Drivers intending to visit other EU countries should have at least one year’s experience of driving a minibus, as required by EU Regulation 3820/85.  In such cases, drivers are required to obtain an INTP5, a certificate of experience of driving a minibus from their Local Traffic Area Office

If you are not operating for hire or reward this does not exempt you from all the other requirements for driving abroad
Even if your trip is a private one for your own family, if it is in a minibus (9 to 16 passenger seats) it will still come under the rules that govern international journeys by bus and coach. This still applies even if there are less than 8 passengers travelling in the minibus. This means that the requirements that still apply include:
 Tachograph
 Speed limiter
 Own Account Certificate or EU Journey Form (Waybill)
 Driver’s Hours Regulations.

Links here Driving a minibus abroad

Hire or Reward?

Last edited by RobC (23-04-15 20:20:25)


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#4 24-04-15 06:44:59

ratty
Member
Registered: 05-02-11
Posts: 466

Re: Driving a mini bus in France.

Thanks very much for these two replies, although they do appear to be a bit contradictory ?

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#5 24-04-15 07:00:36

RobC
Verified Member
From: Nr Ormskirk Lancs
Registered: 28-01-09
Posts: 765
Website

Re: Driving a mini bus in France.

As you can see from the links the law is quite complicated. You cannot drive on a 101 restricted DI for hire or reward which almost all non family trips are. Even family trips require a tacho and there are different rules for non EU countries.


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#6 24-04-15 09:56:42

ratty
Member
Registered: 05-02-11
Posts: 466

Re: Driving a mini bus in France.

I knew it was complicated and, frankly, more bother than it's worth.

Thanks again.

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#7 25-04-15 14:37:41

Fulton
Member
Registered: 19-02-15
Posts: 27

Re: Driving a mini bus in France.

RobC wrote:

As you can see from the links the law is quite complicated. You cannot drive on a 101 restricted DI for hire or reward which almost all non family trips are. Even family trips require a tacho and there are different rules for non EU countries.

Why would a family trip require a tacho as its not for hire or reward ? smile

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#8 25-04-15 17:44:10

pegasus
Verified Member
From: north west
Registered: 25-02-05
Posts: 3,297

Re: Driving a mini bus in France.

Hi
I believe ALL minibuses in the rest of Europe  are required to have tachos and their drivers have to have vocational licences, even if the vehicle is only used as a private vehicle.

Last edited by pegasus (25-04-15 17:44:58)

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#9 25-04-15 17:48:57

RobC
Verified Member
From: Nr Ormskirk Lancs
Registered: 28-01-09
Posts: 765
Website

Re: Driving a mini bus in France.

Outside of the UK  EU Regulations require a tachograph to be installed on ALL minibuses (9 to 16 passenger seats) and used for international journeys and you will be required to comply with the EC Drivers' Hours Rules. For trips abroad, a tachograph must be used from the start of the journey in the UK, with a new disc for each day, continuing until the end of the return journey to the UK. There must be one chart per driver per driving day. There are heavy fines for failing to install and correctly use a tachograph. Deliberate falsification of a tachograph can also result in imprisonment.

You can still drive a Minibus in EU countries on a D1 101 for private use but in reality you would need a large extended family to require 9 to 16 passenger seats, so for most purposes a full D or D1 licence would be required.

Further information is also available from the Road Haulage Division, Department for Transport, Zone 2/11 Great Minster House, 76 Marsham Street, London, SW1P, 4DR.

Last edited by RobC (25-04-15 18:29:07)


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#10 26-04-15 13:28:25

ratty
Member
Registered: 05-02-11
Posts: 466

Re: Driving a mini bus in France.

Does anyone still use discs / charts?

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#11 26-04-15 17:11:02

RobC
Verified Member
From: Nr Ormskirk Lancs
Registered: 28-01-09
Posts: 765
Website

Re: Driving a mini bus in France.

ratty wrote:

Does anyone still use discs / charts?


Discs are for pre May 2006 Minibuses, after May 2006 digital ‘smart card’ are used. There are still quite a lot of pre 2006 minibuses around though
.
To download the driver’s hours information from the smart card you will need a card reader, a download tool and a software package to analyse the data. You will also need to train the driver in using the new tachographs and train someone in the office to download and store the data.


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