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#1 23-04-15 08:39:44

VandADI
Administrator
From: Coulsdon, Surrey
Registered: 29-02-04
Posts: 7,597

Driving Experience Specialists

There does seem to be a sudden influx of driving experiences for full licence holders on offer at the moment, in all different types of vehicles in all terrains. These experiences are great fun, very exhilarating and a lot can be learned from them.

These experiences are often led by  driving specialists who have extensive background knowledge and experience in that field but is not necessarily "teaching for reward" but  is telling the driver what to do rather than instructing or coaching them.

Do you think these driving specialists need to be ADIs to be able to offer this service, and if so. why?

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23-04-15 08:39:44

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Re: Driving Experience Specialists




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#2 23-04-15 09:53:41

kaf
Verified Member
From: Wiltshire
Registered: 05-08-07
Posts: 3,328
Website

Re: Driving Experience Specialists

Certainly not.

We are talking about qualified drivers, experienced drivers, exploring a new vehicle or environment in thier driving.

Totally different from the bread and butter of an ADI which is about safe road driving.

The level of teaching skills required for introducing someone to off road, single seat race cars, rally cars is way less than teaching learners.
But the level of car control skill is often much higher.
Lewis Hamilton does not need to be an ADI to educate a qualified driver on the best way to drive a race car around a track. Passing on higher skills to someone who already has mastered the basics is not rocket science.

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#3 23-04-15 13:10:08

ratty
Member
Registered: 05-02-11
Posts: 466

Re: Driving Experience Specialists

If money is involved, then they probably do.

If they are giving advise in the driving of a car and being paid or payment is being made, then they usually have to be ADI s. The law does not specify that the training has to be on road, or that the person receiving the training do not have to hold a full licence. From my contact with the then DSA, I was told that the only exemptions to this were if the training was being given to someone in a single seat car. However, things may well have changed since then. At that time, about 2000, training involved advise about how to control the speed and / or direction on the vehicle so, in theory, this would include off-road driving and driving on a circuit.

Just because Lewis Hamilton could help someone become a better driver, does not in itself necessarily mean that he does not have to be an ADI to actually do it.

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#4 23-04-15 14:30:39

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: Driving Experience Specialists

DVSA have no interest in anyone teaching driving ability unless it's learners.   Even the road traffic act is vague on whether teaching driving for reward applies to categories other than learners.

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#5 23-04-15 17:20:59

kaf
Verified Member
From: Wiltshire
Registered: 05-08-07
Posts: 3,328
Website

Re: Driving Experience Specialists

Very little of the RTA applies unless on a road.

As most of such training is done on private ground it might prove challenging to convince a court that it was intended,to cover such situations.

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#6 23-04-15 18:04:00

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: Driving Experience Specialists

I was referring more to the on road  advanced and defensive driving courses, of which there are many, where the non ADI  'trainer' is paid. 

For example:  http://www.ridedrive.co.uk/index.htm

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#7 24-04-15 19:27:16

ratty
Member
Registered: 05-02-11
Posts: 466

Re: Driving Experience Specialists

VandADI wrote:

There does seem to be a sudden influx of driving experiences for full licence holders on offer at the moment, in all different types of vehicles in all terrains. These experiences are great fun, very exhilarating and a lot can be learned from them.

These experiences are often led by  driving specialists who have extensive background knowledge and experience in that field but is not necessarily "teaching for reward" but  is telling the driver what to do rather than instructing or coaching them.

Do you think these driving specialists need to be ADIs to be able to offer this service, and if so. why?

It appears that some on here do think the instructors have to be ADI s, some do not!

Why don't you ring the DVSA, or whatever they are called, and ask what they think?

If they don't I can throw away my ADI badges and I will not have to pay for my CRB check! smile

It will be interesting to see what all of the organisations which offer post licence acquisition courses and the likes of Speed Awareness Courses would think of things if the DVSA said that being an ADI was not a requirement for this type of course which people pay for.

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#8 25-04-15 05:33:27

ralge
Verified Member
From: Sheffield
Registered: 10-01-07
Posts: 320

Re: Driving Experience Specialists

Roadmaster wrote:

I was referring more to the on road  advanced and defensive driving courses, of which there are many, where the non ADI  'trainer' is paid. 

For example:  http://www.ridedrive.co.uk/index.htm

I don't know about the example you give but I have worked on a good few of the Advanced and Defensive driving courses you speak of alongside fellow trainers.
I can tell you that the vast bulk are ADI's with a range of extra badges and qualifications over and above the green badge.  I haven't come across a single training company offering such on-road courses that would contemplate employing too many non-ADI's. 
IAM and RoSPA observers are unpaid volunteers.
Track and off-road work is different and there's a mix of trainer backgrounds in those contexts.

Edit: I went to the website you give and scrolled way down in the section "My Driving" and beyond the police driver training write-up there's a couple of disparaging lines about the writer's experience of gaining an ADI's badge.

Last edited by ralge (25-04-15 05:40:19)


DSA Fleet Trainer, RoSPA Dip, PTLLS, Safed for Vans, NDAC/Speed Awareness on-road trainer, RoSPA RoAD Test Examiner.

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#9 25-04-15 05:54:17

ralge
Verified Member
From: Sheffield
Registered: 10-01-07
Posts: 320

Re: Driving Experience Specialists

ratty wrote:
VandADI wrote:

There does seem to be a sudden influx of driving experiences for full licence holders on offer at the moment, in all different types of vehicles in all terrains. These experiences are great fun, very exhilarating and a lot can be learned from them.

These experiences are often led by  driving specialists who have extensive background knowledge and experience in that field but is not necessarily "teaching for reward" but  is telling the driver what to do rather than instructing or coaching them.

Do you think these driving specialists need to be ADIs to be able to offer this service, and if so. why?

It appears that some on here do think the instructors have to be ADI s, some do not!

Why don't you ring the DVSA, or whatever they are called, and ask what they think?

If they don't I can throw away my ADI badges and I will not have to pay for my CRB check! smile

It will be interesting to see what all of the organisations which offer post licence acquisition courses and the likes of Speed Awareness Courses would think of things if the DVSA said that being an ADI was not a requirement for this type of course which people pay for.

The suggestion that those who delivered on-road Speed courses were not ADI's is so far from the truth.
It is true, however, that the classroom element of this and other NDORS courses is going more and more to "behavioural change" specialists.  So you could expect, say, a Probation Officer to be delivering the workshop some time in the future rather than an ADI.


DSA Fleet Trainer, RoSPA Dip, PTLLS, Safed for Vans, NDAC/Speed Awareness on-road trainer, RoSPA RoAD Test Examiner.

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#10 25-04-15 06:14:43

kaf
Verified Member
From: Wiltshire
Registered: 05-08-07
Posts: 3,328
Website

Re: Driving Experience Specialists

Why on earth would an ADI be needed,to provide classroom education on something like speed awareness?

The skills needed are present in many people from all,sorts of disciplines.

There is nothing special about an ADI in that context. On road practical training is a different matter.

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#11 25-04-15 11:09:18

trunkmonkey
Member
Registered: 05-03-09
Posts: 747

Re: Driving Experience Specialists

Roadmaster wrote:

I was referring more to the on road  advanced and defensive driving courses, of which there are many, where the non ADI  'trainer' is paid. 

For example:  http://www.ridedrive.co.uk/index.htm

I did some work for Ride Drive between 2006 and 2008. It was fleet work.
I'd answered an email requiring retired Police Advanced Drivers/Instructors who held at least an ADI badge and preferably a Fleet badge. I don't know of anyone delivering on-road training for Julian that was a non-ADI. I will stand corrected if someone puts forward that evidence.

It was around that time (2005-6) that companies set up by retired police officers were getting a lot of business in the company sector, pushing the benefits of being 'coached' by drivers holding Class 1 qualifications. These companies tended to use terms such as 'assess', 'monitor' 'coach' and 'tutor' to create a grey area between what they were doing and 'instruction'. In my opinion, it was illegal then and is still today.

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#12 25-04-15 11:39:10

ratty
Member
Registered: 05-02-11
Posts: 466

Re: Driving Experience Specialists

kaf wrote:

Why on earth would an ADI be needed,to provide classroom education on something like speed awareness?

The skills needed are present in many people from all,sorts of disciplines.

There is nothing special about an ADI in that context. On road practical training is a different matter.


There is nothing special about being an ADI FULL STOP in my opinion!

However, lots of course providers only use ADI s for 'credibility'. They figure that an ADI should know what they are talking about as far as driving is concerned. From my own first hand experience of these courses, I have been embarrassed by what some some ADI s have said when presenting courses.

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#13 25-04-15 11:47:22

ratty
Member
Registered: 05-02-11
Posts: 466

Re: Driving Experience Specialists

trunkmonkey wrote:

It was around that time (2005-6) that companies set up by retired police officers were getting a lot of business in the company sector, pushing the benefits of being 'coached' by drivers holding Class 1 qualifications. These companies tended to use terms such as 'assess', 'monitor' 'coach' and 'tutor' to create a grey area between what they were doing and 'instruction'. In my opinion, it was illegal then and is still today.

I totally agree with this. (It was also strange how many 'class 1 s' appeared. In my experience the class 1 qualification was quite rare, but all of a sudden all ex-police officers were suddenly 'class 1'. It can be quite handy when qualifications can not be checked!)

If someone is passing on knowledge, it doesn't matter what words people hide behind, they are giving instruction.

In my view the people who do try to hide behind different words and descriptions are usually those who are not qualified to do it in the first place.

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