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#1 02-12-14 13:38:33

MAZ
Verified Member
From: N/Wales, Cheshire
Registered: 13-06-06
Posts: 838

Test Candidates Data.

Today on test, examiners came into the waiting room, our examiner (the first to enter the room) came straight to us directly and stated the candidates name. There were three male candidates taking a test, the car park nor the waiting room is visible from the examiners room, this examiner has not tested this candidate before.

I am assuming that in readiness for the "no paper counterpart" on 1st Jan, that the examiners have now got Full Details including a photo on their screens before entering the room.

What also struck me is, now with all this immediate info to hand, can examiners readily pull up previous copies of DL25 before meeting the candidate???

Maz.

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02-12-14 13:38:33

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Re: Test Candidates Data.



#2 02-12-14 22:56:37

ralge
Verified Member
From: Sheffield
Registered: 10-01-07
Posts: 320

Re: Test Candidates Data.

Not sure but I recall one pupil of mine presenting for his third test in Sheffield and met by the examiner's comment, "you've come back from Bristol, then ..."
His first test had been in Sheffield.  He had moved very quickly (the week after) to Bristol for a new job.  He failed his second test in Bristol.
He decided to return to Sheffield just for his third test.
It all happened so quick that he had not bothered to change his address with the DVLA/DSA. 
So how did the examiner have any knowledge of Bristol without some knowledge of previous test(s)?

Last edited by ralge (02-12-14 22:57:20)


DSA Fleet Trainer, RoSPA Dip, PTLLS, Safed for Vans, NDAC/Speed Awareness on-road trainer, RoSPA RoAD Test Examiner.

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#3 03-12-14 07:32:39

kaf
Verified Member
From: Wiltshire
Registered: 05-08-07
Posts: 3,328
Website

Re: Test Candidates Data.

Same examiner?
Maybe he mentioned it in conversation on his first test?

Everything I have seen and heard on tests suggests DE's have zero information on candidates past history.

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#4 03-12-14 07:37:48

Roadmaster
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Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: Test Candidates Data.

Maz, L test examiners don't have access to the DL25 records (nor the DVLA records because they don't need it).  But even if they did the DL25s are stored in date order, not by names.   And previous test history is not shown on an examiners journal (test list).

Last edited by Roadmaster (03-12-14 07:38:57)

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#5 03-12-14 08:44:52

ralge
Verified Member
From: Sheffield
Registered: 10-01-07
Posts: 320

Re: Test Candidates Data.

kaf wrote:

Same examiner?
Maybe he mentioned it in conversation on his first test?

Everything I have seen and heard on tests suggests DE's have zero information on candidates past history.

Definitely not the same examiner.  Like I said, I'm not sure it proves anything but there was some link, somehow, and I heard it myself.


DSA Fleet Trainer, RoSPA Dip, PTLLS, Safed for Vans, NDAC/Speed Awareness on-road trainer, RoSPA RoAD Test Examiner.

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#6 03-12-14 14:09:23

MAZ
Verified Member
From: N/Wales, Cheshire
Registered: 13-06-06
Posts: 838

Re: Test Candidates Data.

They will need DVLA info after 1st of Jan so they could be trying on beta, someone has got to.

Maz.

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#7 03-12-14 15:09:31

MGM
Verified Member
From: Surrey
Registered: 24-10-11
Posts: 861

Re: Test Candidates Data.

I'm not convinced they'll need the DVLA info in January.

If someone presented for test without his counterpart, and he had in fact been banned, what's the worst that could happen?  If the test went ahead he'd be committing an offence, but the examiner wouldn't.

In the event that he passed, presumably the DVLA would join up the dots and he wouldn't get a full licence, and they would probably initiate a police enquiry.

Only a complete idiot would try it, of course, but it seems there's no shortage of those.

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#8 03-12-14 15:46:02

Roadmaster
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Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: Test Candidates Data.

Examiners do not have access to the DVLA database, (data protection)  nor do they have time to check even if they did. 
It is solely the candidate's responsibility to ensure they are legal, just as they are re insurance.     If anyone who is banned passes, then it would be flagged at DVLA when the paperwork reaches there, and the test result would be voided.

Points on a licence are of no concern to an examiner.

Last edited by Roadmaster (03-12-14 15:46:42)

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#9 03-12-14 18:37:40

martin Williams
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Registered: 26-06-09
Posts: 1,144

Re: Test Candidates Data.

Is it not impossible to book a test if you are banned from driving?

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#10 03-12-14 19:52:40

pegasus
Verified Member
From: north west
Registered: 25-02-05
Posts: 3,302

Re: Test Candidates Data.

Hi

martin Williams wrote:

Is it not impossible to book a test if you are banned from driving?

Probably.
However it is possible to book a test then get a ban, and if it is a short period ban then their licence wont be taken from them.

For us, once we have done an initial licence check, it should be sufficient to have terms of business requiring the pupil to declare to us if they have received any subsequent points or ban, we can then show that we have taken "reasonable actions to ensure our pupil is licenced to drive".

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#11 03-12-14 21:10:36

MAZ
Verified Member
From: N/Wales, Cheshire
Registered: 13-06-06
Posts: 838

Re: Test Candidates Data.

So why so anal over paper counterpart for the last however many years - NO PAPER NO TEST.

So are you saying now as of 1st Jan it's no paper and no online check, it makes a mockery of all those that lost their paper being refused a test in the past.

I was lead to believe that officially interested parties would have on-line access to licence information. Official Interested parties might include ADI's, employers, employment agencies, police and one would suspect driving examiners would not be left out, as they have to sit next to this person often without dual controls.

Maz.

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#12 04-12-14 07:35:51

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: Test Candidates Data.

A system for checking licences is already in place   https://www.gov.uk/view-driving-licence.

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#13 04-12-14 21:21:30

MAZ
Verified Member
From: N/Wales, Cheshire
Registered: 13-06-06
Posts: 838

Re: Test Candidates Data.

Roadmaster wrote:

A system for checking licences is already in place   https://www.gov.uk/view-driving-licence.

The one in your link is only for checking your own personal details.






Organisations and businesses that check the driving licence counterpart


DVLA is developing a new digital enquiry service for launch later this year that will allow organisations and businesses (such as employers and car hire companies) to view information they can currently see on the driving licence counterpart.

This new service will be offered in addition to the existing services, but is designed for those who have a business need for real-time access to the information and may not wish to call DVLA or be in a position to use an intermediary.

Driving licence information via this service will only be made available to those who have a right to see it, and with the knowledge of the driving licence holder.


https://www.gov.uk/government/news/driv … ce-changes

Maz.

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#14 05-12-14 07:37:00

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: Test Candidates Data.

If you ask your pupil for their national insurance number you can check their details too. Easy enough.

The system you refer to is not yet operational, it was supposed to be live but the DVLA must be having problems with it.

The first checking site is free, but I wouldn't be surprised if there is a fee to sign up to the other one, if/when it does become live.

Last edited by Roadmaster (05-12-14 07:51:10)

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#15 05-12-14 21:23:44

MAZ
Verified Member
From: N/Wales, Cheshire
Registered: 13-06-06
Posts: 838

Re: Test Candidates Data.

Roadmaster wrote:

The system you refer to is not yet operational, it was supposed to be live but the DVLA must be having problems with it.

Now we have come full circle RM.
The point of my OP was that I suspect that the DVSA are testing the system for the DVLA, examiners are in the unique position of checking the data held on the database with the paper counterparts presented by candidates.
They do not need permission from the candidate as they are already offering this data freely as it is part of the condition of applying for the test.

Maz

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#16 01-07-15 21:17:51

metalmicky
Verified Member
From: Chesterfield
Registered: 10-01-11
Posts: 802
Website

Re: Test Candidates Data.

As has been previously mentioned: examiners have no access to any previous test information when a candidate is presented for test.  Any licence checks that need to be made are now made by the Central Booking Office in Newcastle.  Previously, examiners made checks on the counterpart of any recently added points or short term convictions. 

Examiners also have no time or inclination to go back through any old copies of DL25's in the limited 10 minutes between tests (if they're lucky) following the post test write up. 

It is however quite feasible the candidate was memorable to a particular examiner and they recalled which ADI brought him for test and was perhaps surprised to see him back from Bristol so quickly that th DE mentioned it to his colleague (who may have known the ADI), ergo knowing which candidate he was addressing. 

Also the DE may have taken all the others out on test previously and knew it was the one he didn't know. 

or it might just have been a coincidence that they were looking at the candidate when they called their name. smile smile smile smile


Just because I'm a driving instructor, it doesn't make me a dual control freak. 
www.way-ahead-driving.co.uk

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#17 02-07-15 05:36:38

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: Test Candidates Data.

metalmickey wrote:

Previously, examiners made checks on the counterpart of any recently added points or short term convictions.


Examiners at my tc have never checked for endorsements, it is of no interest to them.

Last edited by Roadmaster (02-07-15 05:38:06)

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#18 02-07-15 14:42:00

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: Test Candidates Data.

MAZ wrote:
Roadmaster wrote:

A system for checking licences is already in place   https://www.gov.uk/view-driving-licence.

The one in your link is only for checking your own personal details.






Organisations and businesses that check the driving licence counterpart


DVLA is developing a new digital enquiry service for launch later this year that will allow organisations and businesses (such as employers and car hire companies) to view information they can currently see on the driving licence counterpart.

This new service will be offered in addition to the existing services, but is designed for those who have a business need for real-time access to the information and may not wish to call DVLA or be in a position to use an intermediary.

Driving licence information via this service will only be made available to those who have a right to see it, and with the knowledge of the driving licence holder.


https://www.gov.uk/government/news/driv … ce-changes

Maz.

Load of rubbish is the need for a special code number as all the driver has to do is to give someone their NI number because they have the driver number and postcode on the licence


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Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#19 02-07-15 18:59:54

kaf
Verified Member
From: Wiltshire
Registered: 05-08-07
Posts: 3,328
Website

Re: Test Candidates Data.

The system using NI number is for checking ones own licence.

The code is provided to a third party in order for THEM to check details, the code is effectively providing permission to access details.  It eliminates the risks of providing another with their national insurance number.

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#20 03-07-15 16:25:37

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: Test Candidates Data.

kaf wrote:

The system using NI number is for checking ones own licence.

The code is provided to a third party in order for THEM to check details, the code is effectively providing permission to access details.  It eliminates the risks of providing another with their national insurance number.

Nothing to stop the NI number system being used by anyone


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#21 04-07-15 10:51:22

trunkmonkey
Member
Registered: 05-03-09
Posts: 747

Re: Test Candidates Data.

(ROG) wrote:
kaf wrote:

The system using NI number is for checking ones own licence.

The code is provided to a third party in order for THEM to check details, the code is effectively providing permission to access details.  It eliminates the risks of providing another with their national insurance number.

Nothing to stop the NI number system being used by anyone......................................... to go along with the name, address, date of birth and then open a mail order account.

That's why there are two systems - one for the driver and one for us.

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#22 04-07-15 15:12:36

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: Test Candidates Data.

trunkmonkey wrote:
(ROG) wrote:
kaf wrote:

The system using NI number is for checking ones own licence.

The code is provided to a third party in order for THEM to check details, the code is effectively providing permission to access details.  It eliminates the risks of providing another with their national insurance number.

Nothing to stop the NI number system being used by anyone......................................... to go along with the name, address, date of birth and then open a mail order account.

That's why there are two systems - one for the driver and one for us.

Input the NI number yourself on their PC

Every employer has all the info needed

Last edited by (ROG) (04-07-15 15:13:16)


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LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#23 04-07-15 18:24:16

trunkmonkey
Member
Registered: 05-03-09
Posts: 747

Re: Test Candidates Data.

I disagree, you have no reason to see their NI number. They input it and then show you the results screen.
Employers are different but there are Data Protection issues. Unless the employee signs a mandate you can't use his details to check his record.

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#24 04-07-15 20:19:36

kaf
Verified Member
From: Wiltshire
Registered: 05-08-07
Posts: 3,328
Website

Re: Test Candidates Data.

NI numbers should not be disclosed to anyone who doesn't need them. An ADI doesn't.

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#25 05-07-15 06:37:59

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: Test Candidates Data.

kaf wrote:

NI numbers should not be disclosed to anyone who doesn't need them. An ADI doesn't.

Do not need to divulge NI number to say a hire company

Hire company use driving licence number and postcode from driving licence

Hirer then puts in their own NI number

Driving licence details are now available to see on screen

No need for special code


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Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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