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#1 27-11-14 17:08:14

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

DVSA consider changes to driving test

This is to inform you that DVSA has commissioned initial research to review the content of the practical driving test. The agency will be conducting a preliminary trial to explore how the test could better reflect real life driving.
We want to ensure that young drivers feel it is worth investing in good training so that they are well prepared for driving on their own.

The trial will explore the following changes:

* within the current test timing, extending the ‘independent driving’ section of the test, and asking candidates to follow directions on a satnav, as an alternative to following road signs
* replacing the ‘reverse around a corner’ and ‘turn in the road’ manoeuvres with  more realistic everyday manoeuvres, such as reversing out of a parking bay,  or pulling up on the left or right before re-joining the flow of traffic
* asking one of the two vehicle safety questions while on the move instead of at the start of the test, for example requiring candidates to show how they would  operate the rear heated screen while driving

These options have been developed for consideration by the agency working in conjunction with key stakeholders, including Approved Driving Instructor Associations and Road Safety Charities.
DVSA will be recruiting around 1,000 learner drivers to take part in the trial in a  number of locations across the country. Any future changes to test content would be subject to full public consultation.

Last edited by Roadmaster (27-11-14 17:53:49)

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27-11-14 17:08:14

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Re: DVSA consider changes to driving test




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#2 27-11-14 18:20:57

kaf
Verified Member
From: Wiltshire
Registered: 05-08-07
Posts: 3,325
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Re: DVSA consider changes to driving test

You couldn't make it up could you!

How many people have been killed or seriously injured because the driver was putting the rear screen heater, or when reversing out of a parking bay (which, incidentally I thoroughly discourage!). They already pull up on the left and rejoin traffic.

Seriously, it's things like this that make me want to quit the whole business because they don't have a clue and just meddle in an attempt to justify their salarys.

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#3 27-11-14 19:34:05

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: DVSA consider changes to driving test

kaf wrote:

.....reversing out of a parking bay (which, incidentally I thoroughly discourage!).

Hang on .... that's real life

99% of cars have to park nose to nose in supermarket bays in order to load the boot


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#4 27-11-14 19:37:31

ralge
Verified Member
From: Sheffield
Registered: 10-01-07
Posts: 320

Re: DVSA consider changes to driving test

They could start with ensuring that all trainees are exposed to the need for a (reverse) bay park and the logic for reversing into a space AND are given a script (and understanding) on SMTM of the function of tyre tread and when it stops working.
- I took my L-test in 1977 and my parts 2 and 3 (2003/4) at the very same TC. At no time in this process was I ever required to carry out a reverse bay park or train a 'pupil' to do so
- judging by the number of instructors I see dump their vehicle forwards into a parking space only to have to reverse out suggests they aren't passing on the logic or benefits of "reverse in, drive out" to their pupils
- the DVSA's suggestion here that a pupil might be asked to reverse out of a space just proves that I and a few others are up against it (and suggests the DVSA are stuck in physical manoeuvring skills as distinct with the softer risk management approach to driving)
- without additional knowledge about tread function the industry is committing to the roads another generation (like Mum and Dad) that mostly haven't a clue about the four points of contact with the road surface.
(I spoke to the Dsa about this years ago. They acknowledged the shortcomings of the current SMTM script but what have they done about it?  You got it.)

Last edited by ralge (27-11-14 19:57:12)


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#5 27-11-14 19:43:58

ralge
Verified Member
From: Sheffield
Registered: 10-01-07
Posts: 320

Re: DVSA consider changes to driving test

(ROG) wrote:
kaf wrote:

.....reversing out of a parking bay (which, incidentally I thoroughly discourage!).

Hang on .... that's real life

99% of cars have to park nose to nose in supermarket bays in order to load the boot

Yes and real life ends up in a huge number of reversing bumps and scrapes.
Have to?
Does the driveway take the drivers to the fridge or larder unit?

Last edited by ralge (27-11-14 19:44:47)


DSA Fleet Trainer, RoSPA Dip, PTLLS, Safed for Vans, NDAC/Speed Awareness on-road trainer, RoSPA RoAD Test Examiner.

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#6 27-11-14 19:56:07

kaf
Verified Member
From: Wiltshire
Registered: 05-08-07
Posts: 3,325
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Re: DVSA consider changes to driving test

ralge wrote:
(ROG) wrote:
kaf wrote:

.....reversing out of a parking bay (which, incidentally I thoroughly discourage!).

Hang on .... that's real life

99% of cars have to park nose to nose in supermarket bays in order to load the boot

Yes and real life ends up in a huge number of reversing bumps and scrapes.
Have to?
Does the driveway take the drivers to the fridge or larder unit?


Exactly what I say to my students.

Reversing out of parking bays is as stupid as reversing from minor to major.

I get them to try both, 90% tell me they found it easier to reverse IN !

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#7 27-11-14 19:57:45

kaf
Verified Member
From: Wiltshire
Registered: 05-08-07
Posts: 3,325
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Re: DVSA consider changes to driving test

(ROG) wrote:
kaf wrote:

.....reversing out of a parking bay (which, incidentally I thoroughly discourage!).

Hang on .... that's real life

99% of cars have to park nose to nose in supermarket bays in order to load the boot


Real life also involves, not signalling at roundabouts, speeding, parking on junctions, tailgating, ...........

Strangely,,I discourage those as well.

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#8 27-11-14 20:15:29

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: DVSA consider changes to driving test

In real life I drive into a bay so I can load up the boot easily.   Reversing out is simple if you do it slowly and with good obs.
Sometimes you have to park forwards http://goo.gl/maps/eiILU

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#9 27-11-14 20:32:12

martin Williams
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Registered: 26-06-09
Posts: 1,144

Re: DVSA consider changes to driving test

Do they not know the dangers involved when moving off from being parked on the right?

What's next changing the channel on the radio while eating a banana?

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#10 27-11-14 20:51:30

kaf
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From: Wiltshire
Registered: 05-08-07
Posts: 3,325
Website

Re: DVSA consider changes to driving test

Anyway, however we park, does anyone seriously think any of these issues will have any ipact on the effectiveness of the test as an instrument in road safety?

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#11 27-11-14 21:33:57

MGM
Verified Member
From: Surrey
Registered: 24-10-11
Posts: 861

Re: DVSA consider changes to driving test

Is this a hoax? I can't find it on the DVSA website.

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#12 27-11-14 21:41:34

ralge
Verified Member
From: Sheffield
Registered: 10-01-07
Posts: 320

Re: DVSA consider changes to driving test

kaf wrote:

Anyway, however we park, does anyone seriously think any of these issues will have any ipact on the effectiveness of the test as an instrument in road safety?

No.
Because they seem intent on accepting second-best as the norm - hence my examples of the DVSA's view of bay parking and the limitations of their view of what pupils need to know about tyre tread.
The first broadly gives us one of the three leading crash scenarios (and insurance claims) however easy reversing out is most of the time.
The second allows another generation of drivers on the road that will opt for "driving to the conditions" without passing "Go" in understanding the basics.
Safe (incident-free) driving for life?

Last edited by ralge (27-11-14 21:42:54)


DSA Fleet Trainer, RoSPA Dip, PTLLS, Safed for Vans, NDAC/Speed Awareness on-road trainer, RoSPA RoAD Test Examiner.

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#13 27-11-14 21:53:21

christhedrummer
Verified Member
Registered: 18-10-06
Posts: 1,163
Website

Re: DVSA consider changes to driving test

I would like them to add driving down an unlit, NSL country road with 3 of their mates in the back at 2am.

That would be good real life!

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#14 28-11-14 07:23:34

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: DVSA consider changes to driving test

MGM wrote:

Is this a hoax? I can't find it on the DVSA website.

No hoax MGM, it was sent by email to all the associations yesterday by Lesley Young Chief Driving Examiner.   You'll probably read it in the association's newsletters in a couple of months.

From: "Young, Lesley" <Lesley.Young@dsa.gsi.gov.uk>
Date: 27 November 2014 15:00:09 GMT
Subject: #2711 Driving Test Research

Interesting to note that the 'associations' are involved, yet they haven't asked their membership for any input once again.

Last edited by Roadmaster (28-11-14 08:14:25)

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#15 28-11-14 16:56:25

Loopy Lou
Verified Member
From: Berkshire
Registered: 03-11-07
Posts: 554

Re: DVSA consider changes to driving test

It's made the Daily Mail so it must be true  wink

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … -axed.html


It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful...

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#16 28-11-14 18:34:41

Joe24
Verified Member
Registered: 18-05-12
Posts: 308

Re: DVSA consider changes to driving test

Ha ha next they will be telling us learners will be allowed on motorways next.......... Never happened! mad

We get these headlines "big learner shake up" blah blah blah every year. Rarely does anything actually happen. Been the same for at least 12 years. So if the government say somethings gonna change------ mad Its usually lies hmm  Give it 24 hours and it will have been forgotten about. Mark my words cool

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#17 28-11-14 18:51:57

Coasting Mart
Verified Member
Registered: 11-06-09
Posts: 967

Re: DVSA consider changes to driving test

Nowt wrong with TIR - it can be useful and involves core control and reversing skills.  RRC I could happily live without. Very few folk will ever do it and finding good corners to practice it on is actually quite hard.  It's also quite risky with folk screaming up to the end of the minor road and not expecting to find a car reversing at them!

I agree about Tread, Raige.  I've been doing a survey of people on CBTs.
"Why do we want tread?"
"Grip!"
"Excellent.  How does it give us grip?"
....
95% of people (many middle age car drivers, not all 16 ped boys) have no idea about why! (And thus why there's a legal min.)  It is a huge gap in knowledge out there.
The best answer I've had is 'how does it give us grip'? - "suction!"  cool

Most of the 'press release' just seems entirely daft! Seriously, these are the 'best' proposals they can come up with to consult on? Just makes them look fairly stoopid IMHO.

Last edited by Coasting Mart (28-11-14 18:52:49)


"I swear I found the key to the universe in the engine of an old parked car"

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#18 28-11-14 20:13:10

pegasus
Verified Member
From: north west
Registered: 25-02-05
Posts: 3,297

Re: DVSA consider changes to driving test

Hi
Lesley Young may have sent out the email but the decision makers at DVSA ie the board does not have single DSA side member on it, they are all from the VOSA side or broughrt in from outside.

Incidently  RM if the email was sent out yesterday how can the associations have already asked their members, have you asked DIB yet?

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#19 28-11-14 20:21:31

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: DVSA consider changes to driving test

pegasus wrote:

Incidently  RM if the email was sent out yesterday how can the associations have already asked their members, have you asked DIB yet?

Have a read of the op pegasus - These options have been developed for consideration by the agency working in conjunction with key stakeholders, including Approved Driving Instructor Associations............

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#20 28-11-14 20:28:04

kaf
Verified Member
From: Wiltshire
Registered: 05-08-07
Posts: 3,325
Website

Re: DVSA consider changes to driving test

Except we know what thier idea of consultation is.

DVSA -We thought we could do this......

ADIs - this would be better......

DVSA  - glad you agree with us, we shall do just what we suggested then

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#21 29-11-14 09:51:53

robcooling
Verified Member
From: Nottingham
Registered: 02-04-09
Posts: 1,451
Website

Re: DVSA consider changes to driving test

I get them to try both, 90% tell me they found it easier to reverse IN

Totally agree, I teach both but reversing IN is so much easier - in real life I'll always reverse in rather than out. I think they should start the test reversing OUT (because sometimes you have to due to car park design or needing good access to your boot) then finish test reversing IN.


Rob

http://www.appledriving.co.uk - Driving Lessons in Nottingham

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#22 29-11-14 23:50:08

MAZ
Verified Member
From: N/Wales, Cheshire
Registered: 13-06-06
Posts: 838

Re: DVSA consider changes to driving test

Well I am all for making the test "real life" or at least as near as posible, but I don't want to have to spend a higher percentage of pupils tuition time teaching manoeuvres. Hopefully they will remove left reverse to accommodate reversing out of the bay, as I think the TIR needs to be kept in particularly with extra I.D. and the higher chance of candidates going "the wrong way" necessitating the need to turn around.

However, if reversing out of the bay just becomes another manuover "option", then I fear we will end up "mostly" teaching manoeuvres while the test becomes more I.D. based, so will be counter productive and push the hours tuition requirements to around 60-70 hours. So much for "cutting  the cost of learning to drive" by knocking £6 off the theory test.

Maz.

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#23 30-11-14 14:35:56

Coasting Mart
Verified Member
Registered: 11-06-09
Posts: 967

Re: DVSA consider changes to driving test

and asking candidates to follow directions on a satnav, as an alternative to following road signs

Can I just ask - who provides the sat nav?  Us or the DVSA!
I don't have one, except on my phone. Find them very distracting, and following signs is a lot easier.

I guess we could just replace the examiner with a sat nav for the route directions.  Bit like the old bike test - drive round this route, and if you come back in one piece, you must be able to ride/drive!  (and I'll jump out in front of you for the Estop!)  cool


"I swear I found the key to the universe in the engine of an old parked car"

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#24 30-11-14 18:52:37

Daveyboy
Verified Member
From: Nr Alford, Lincolnshire
Registered: 25-01-09
Posts: 377

Re: DVSA consider changes to driving test

They will need to bring a charged sat nav as my camera is plugged into the 12v socket.

I have heard of one DE complaining about the brightness of camera screens, this is all going to look quite good with all the electronic gadget’s stuck to inside of the front screen.

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#25 01-12-14 07:35:35

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: DVSA consider changes to driving test

So we get a satnav to teach them how they work (I have a factory installed one in my clio)  and then on test day the examiner brings the DVSA standard one out, and pupil doesn't know how to work it because it's different from the one in the car.

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