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#1 04-09-14 08:37:02

johnp
Verified Member
From: Dorset
Registered: 04-03-06
Posts: 2,636

Speed Violation ???

My son got zapped by a police camera in his Z350
He got a prosecution notice for doing 38 in a 30.
He does not think he was over 30.

He has now received an apology from the police and told it was a 'clerical error' and no action will be taken.

Quite relieved, but what is a clerical error in this scenario??


Driving is books-
1. "safe and responsible INDEPENDENCE."
2. "DISABILITY into ABILITY" 
3. "PSYCHOLOGY than SYSTEMS.
www.drivingincludesu.co.uk

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04-09-14 08:37:02

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Re: Speed Violation ???



#2 04-09-14 13:45:21

martin Williams
Verified Member
Registered: 26-06-09
Posts: 1,144

Re: Speed Violation ???

Was it a fixed camera or hand held?

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#3 04-09-14 15:09:31

johnp
Verified Member
From: Dorset
Registered: 04-03-06
Posts: 2,636

Re: Speed Violation ???

Hand held.
He saw the policeman with it as he came round the corner, but looked down and thought he was OK.


Driving is books-
1. "safe and responsible INDEPENDENCE."
2. "DISABILITY into ABILITY" 
3. "PSYCHOLOGY than SYSTEMS.
www.drivingincludesu.co.uk

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#4 05-09-14 19:57:07

trunkmonkey
Member
Registered: 05-03-09
Posts: 747

Re: Speed Violation ???

Rather than shooting from the hip and blaming it on a calibration fault, I spoke to someone in the Central Ticket Office and asked what a 'clerical error' might be.
The officer submits his report and it is transcribed onto the prosecution notice. The clerical assistant may  mistakenly type in the wrong time, day, date, speed, location, vehicle details. There may be a problem with the speed limit as in signage, TRO in existence,or the 14 day time limit for sending out the NIP(as its known) has past.
Rather than lose  a case at court on those points, and you would lose, it's the correct action to withdraw all NIP's.
Question by me  "What's the most you've had to cancel?"
"600 and it cost someone her job"
Is faulty calibration a clerical error?
"No, that's equipment fault. It's recorded by the Camera enforcement Unit and stays there for audit purposes."
What about operator error?
"The same, we only get the ones going for process. I've only had one incident get through this far. The officer had used the equipment on the day the clocks went back , so every letter that went out showed the wrong time of offence. One driver contacted us saying he wan't on the road at that time. The officer checked the log and sure enough his records showed the correct time, the camera the wrong time. Every NIP cancelled.

Were those drivers speeding?
The evidence would say Yes, but the procedure has to be followed correctly and withdrawing the NIP was the right decision

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#5 05-09-14 20:49:37

johnp
Verified Member
From: Dorset
Registered: 04-03-06
Posts: 2,636

Re: Speed Violation ???

Well thanks for that TM.

I knew you would take my enquiry seriously and give an informed answer.

Thanks I believe he was lucky and he knows that.

He admits he was distracted as he left the roundabout
and the trouble with powerful cars is that you can easily exceed the limit very quickly.

Lesson learnt I hope.

Does the PC write it down? How does he give it to the clerk?

Last edited by johnp (05-09-14 21:05:14)


Driving is books-
1. "safe and responsible INDEPENDENCE."
2. "DISABILITY into ABILITY" 
3. "PSYCHOLOGY than SYSTEMS.
www.drivingincludesu.co.uk

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#6 15-09-14 19:11:43

trunkmonkey
Member
Registered: 05-03-09
Posts: 747

Re: Speed Violation ???

I've gained a little bit more information John.
You say the camera was hand-held. In those circumstances the driver is normally stopped at the time and the device is shown to him. Pretty cut and dried really. From personal experience (allbeit years ago) if you couldn't get after the car and stop it then you might as well forget it as the driver has not been shown evidence of the allegation.

I'm now told that some equipment is used outside and next to the camera van. So it is hand-held, but a recording is made and the driver doesn't need to be stopped. The first he knows is when the brown envelope lands on the mat.

Going back to the hand-held. The officer now completes a TORS (Traffic Offence Report). The details are taken of the time,day,date,location and offender, vehicle etc and the offence and a brief summary is entered on the back. The driver is told he may be reported and to wait and hear.
The TORS is submitted by the officer to the CTO and the decision maker. If it goes for process then the NIP is sent out.

This form now includes a multitude of offences and allows the officer to recommend a diversionary course  - What's Driving Us or Driving 4 Change.

Only time will tell if it's successful.

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#7 15-09-14 19:27:17

MGM
Verified Member
From: Surrey
Registered: 24-10-11
Posts: 861

Re: Speed Violation ???

trunkmonkey wrote:

I've gained a little bit more information John.
You say the camera was hand-held. In those circumstances the driver is normally stopped at the time and the device is shown to him. Pretty cut and dried really. From personal experience (allbeit years ago) if you couldn't get after the car and stop it then you might as well forget it as the driver has not been shown evidence of the allegation.

I'm now told that some equipment is used outside and next to the camera van. So it is hand-held, but a recording is made and the driver doesn't need to be stopped. The first he knows is when the brown envelope lands on the mat.

Going back to the hand-held. The officer now completes a TORS (Traffic Offence Report). The details are taken of the time,day,date,location and offender, vehicle etc and the offence and a brief summary is entered on the back. The driver is told he may be reported and to wait and hear.
The TORS is submitted by the officer to the CTO and the decision maker. If it goes for process then the NIP is sent out.

This form now includes a multitude of offences and allows the officer to recommend a diversionary course  - What's Driving Us or Driving 4 Change.

Only time will tell if it's successful.

That seems to be the system now used by a number of forces.

What is eventually sent out by the CTO however surely isn't a NIP - the driver has already had that at the roadside - but just the offer of a course or fixed penalty.

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#8 15-09-14 21:34:56

trunkmonkey
Member
Registered: 05-03-09
Posts: 747

Re: Speed Violation ???

This force always send out a S.172. 

I suppose it's a 'cover all bases' and gets rid of an accusation that the driver didn't understand what he was being reported for. There has always been a suggestion that the driver must know its been served AND understand what it means.

My old force - different to this one - used to accept the verbal NIP and go straight to process.

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