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#1 07-08-14 08:16:55

Marmalade
Member
From: Peterborough
Registered: 28-05-14
Posts: 21
Website

Opinions on the telematics device

Hello all

Opinions on the telematics device (black box) ?

Do you think it's good? Do you think it's bad?
Does it help the young drivers on their own once they have passed and have no instructor sat next to them?

Look forward to hearing all the response's.


We champion young drivers with award-winning low cost insurance for learner and new drivers and a great young drivers’ car scheme

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07-08-14 08:16:55

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Re: Opinions on the telematics device



#2 07-08-14 17:01:17

Lady-Hynarc
Verified Member
Registered: 09-04-12
Posts: 648

Re: Opinions on the telematics device

Hello Marmalade,

The short answer to your question is "I don't know".  Can you tell us more about the telematics device?  Apart from basic information such as time and day I believe it measures speed but don't really know beyond that.  Does it relate the driving style, if that is the correct term, to the location in which that driving style has been recorded?

I could guess what it does and I genuinely do want to answer the question but if you could give us some more information, it would make my response more meaningful.

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#3 07-08-14 18:03:49

kaf
Verified Member
From: Wiltshire
Registered: 05-08-07
Posts: 3,324
Website

Re: Opinions on the telematics device

It does have some advantages in making new drivers think more about how they drive.

My main concern is that I don't think the reduction in premiums makes it worthwhile.

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#4 07-08-14 19:50:58

Coasting Mart
Verified Member
Registered: 11-06-09
Posts: 967

Re: Opinions on the telematics device

I wonder how accurate the GPS is and especially when it relates to a speed limit database.  Looking at some of the reviews on some of the apps where you can simulate black box stuff, many reviews thought they were inaccurate or just plain wrong about the speed issue. (obviously, some of the users might be wrong too of course!)

I think generally, they are a good idea.  They help focus the mind on keeping the driving standards up and not being too reckless.  Helps establish a pattern of driving and form good habits while experience is gained.

My one specific criticism is presumably they in effect ban clients from practicing emergency stops!  The one thing that no one practices but that would be really useful.  How do you calibrate following distances, or speed into a bend if you don't know how much time and space it takes to stop!

As Lady-H I don't know the ins and outs of them precisely but in principle I think they are excellent.  Whether they can actually identify "good" driving from "bad" is another matter.  It's a bit like sitting in on tests - unless you were there and aware of the circumstances, how can you know whether that was too fast for the situation, or whatever.  Can they identify the trail of risks and close shaves left in someone's wake just by recording speed, braking and acceleration?  Some older drivers are very sedate in their style but not necessarily very safe or aware!

So yes, in principle a very good idea.  How the practice matches up I don't know.  I'd love to have one fitted to see if my excellent, smooth, aware and sometimes fast driving is recognised as amazingly brilliant!!   cool


"I swear I found the key to the universe in the engine of an old parked car"

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#5 07-08-14 20:30:22

christhedrummer
Verified Member
Registered: 18-10-06
Posts: 1,163
Website

Re: Opinions on the telematics device

I think all new cars should be fitted with one as well as in car cctv. Would make investigating accidents much easier.
Anyone found to have tampered with theirs faces fine / points / ban

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#6 07-08-14 20:54:45

pegasus
Verified Member
From: north west
Registered: 25-02-05
Posts: 3,297

Re: Opinions on the telematics device

Hi

kaf wrote:

It does have some advantages in making new drivers think more about how they drive.

My main concern is that I don't think the reduction in premiums makes it worthwhile.

Having heard a presentation from them at a conference in March I believe that the way Marmalade use the info from theirs is different when compared with other insurers.

I will leave it to the OP to tell you how it differs in case I get it wrong.

Last edited by pegasus (07-08-14 20:55:20)

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#7 07-08-14 21:36:57

Lynne
Verified Member
From: Essex
Registered: 05-03-04
Posts: 925

Re: Opinions on the telematics device

My granddaughter had one fitted for her first year and her insurance company sent a monthly email to her parents telling them that she was "a good driver".  Well I have to say I was going to complain (and I should have but never got round to it shame on me) as I'd experienced her driving and she was regularly going too fast into hazards and braking late etc., This feedback she was getting was totally misleading so was doing nothing to curb her driving behaviour.

To think I'd taught her to drive and she passed with one minor and that was for stopping at the top of a T junction.

Any device that provides feedback needs to be accurate!

Last edited by Lynne (07-08-14 21:37:45)

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#8 07-08-14 22:44:05

Lady-Hynarc
Verified Member
Registered: 09-04-12
Posts: 648

Re: Opinions on the telematics device

Lynne wrote:

My granddaughter had one fitted for her first year and her insurance company sent a monthly email to her parents telling them that she was "a good driver".  Well I have to say I was going to complain (and I should have but never got round to it shame on me) as I'd experienced her driving and she was regularly going too fast into hazards and braking late etc., This feedback she was getting was totally misleading so was doing nothing to curb her driving behaviour.

To think I'd taught her to drive and she passed with one minor and that was for stopping at the top of a T junction.

Any device that provides feedback needs to be accurate!

This is exactly my concern and is the reason I want to know what information they provide.  Hopefully Marmalade will oblige.

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#9 08-08-14 10:56:49

Marmalade
Member
From: Peterborough
Registered: 28-05-14
Posts: 21
Website

Re: Opinions on the telematics device

Hello & thank you for all the great questions and responses!! big_smile

All telematics (black box) policies interpret the data differently, with ourselves we record acceleration, braking, cornering and average speed on every journey made in the vehicle.
Our GPS in the telematics device will be able to locate the vehicle in the UK and know which speed limits are on which road and what the G force is during the journey in regards to the acceleration, braking and cornering.

With ourselves we offer the maximum discount up front on the premium, as the telematics box is used for insurance purposes to keep the premium as low as possible.

The policy is offered to provisional drivers as well as the qualified drivers, one emergency stop during a journey would not result in a bad journey.
Our journeys are monitored by the overall score of each journey, therefore the more incidents in a journey would have a greater impact on the score, potentially resulting in bad journeys.
We also do not take in to account any journeys that are recorded 2 miles or under as this is not a true reflection or a journey.

The telematics device is not meant to teach the young drivers how to drive (this is all down to you great people!!) it is only installed for insurance purposes.

Obviously there will be times in some journeys where you would need to make an emergency stop and this would not stand against you, however if you have made a few other incidents in the journey this could lead up to a low journey score.

As stated previously the telematics is not here to teach the drivers how to drive, it is only installed for insurance purposes.
Statistics do show that 1 in 4 drivers have a crash in the first 12 months in driving, however our statistics do show that ours is greatly improved by roughly 4-5 times that.

Obviously all insurers will be different in regards to the telematics and how they use their data, some offer lower premiums as a result of good driving and some have time restrictions.
Marmalade insurance products offer no time restrictions and also we offer the lowest premium possible at the start of the policy.

If the drivers do think there is an issue where the box is not recording correctly and the data is inaccurate we do always offer the young drivers the opportunity to have an engineer come to the home or work address to investigate the telematics device.

If it was up to you guys to record the data on the box would you do anything differently? e.g. Marmalade has no time curfews where as other insurers do, would you change this?

Thank you all again for the great replies!!


We champion young drivers with award-winning low cost insurance for learner and new drivers and a great young drivers’ car scheme

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#10 08-08-14 13:13:00

Lady-Hynarc
Verified Member
Registered: 09-04-12
Posts: 648

Re: Opinions on the telematics device

Hi Marmalade,

Thanks for the explanation.  I hope you won't mind if I dissect your response and answer in chunks!  I hope my fellow professionals will agree with my comments...

Marmalade wrote:

Hello & thank you for all the great questions and responses!! big_smile

All telematics (black box) policies interpret the data differently, with ourselves we record acceleration, braking, cornering and average speed on every journey made in the vehicle.
Our GPS in the telematics device will be able to locate the vehicle in the UK and know which speed limits are on which road and what the G force is during the journey in regards to the acceleration, braking and cornering.

This is pretty much what I expected and I suspect my fellow professionals did as well.  Whilst the telematics that you record give an indication as to the style of driving at a specific time through a specific set of roads, they do not (and cannot) take into account the dynamics caused by hazards, other road users and distractions, such as passengers or the dreaded mobiles.  We recognise, as professionals, that teaching learners to look, see and react in an appropriate way is the most difficult part of our job.  Telematics cannot take that into account.

With ourselves we offer the maximum discount up front on the premium, as the telematics box is used for insurance purposes to keep the premium as low as possible.

I understand that telematics is very much an insurance led and insurance beneficial system.  I can also see how it would be useful for post-accident investigation to establish some of the circumstances of the accident.  I don't know whether the police have access to the telematics you record?

The policy is offered to provisional drivers as well as the qualified drivers, one emergency stop during a journey would not result in a bad journey.

From an instructor's perspective, one emergency stop during a journey would indicate a bad journey, particularly on an ongoing basis.  An emergency stop should be a rare occurrence.  In my life, I have probably only emergency stopped a handful of times.  If a driver is reading the road correctly and anticipating problems before they occur then emergency stops should be a rarity.

Our journeys are monitored by the overall score of each journey, therefore the more incidents in a journey would have a greater impact on the score, potentially resulting in bad journeys.

This could be very useful in identifying weaknesses in a driver's knowledge.  For example, if an incident was to occur every time the driver encountered a large roundabout, it might show that the driver could do with additional training on large roundabouts.  With this information, an insurance company, if so inclined, could specify that the driver needs to undertake further training with an ADI to resolve this particular issue.  We work hard to encourage our pupils to take further training but there is no significant incentive to do so.  You are in a much better position.  Being quite brutal for a moment, something like this could be quite an incentive "We have identified that you could do with more training with an ADI in the area of roundabouts.  If you decline to take such training, we will have no alternative but to increase your insurance premium."  I appreciate that I am probably naive and this is totally inapproapriate but , hey, I'm an ADI not an insurance expert...

We also do not take in to account any journeys that are recorded 2 miles or under as this is not a true reflection or a journey.
I think it is still the case that a high percentage of accidents occur within 2 miles of home.  If that is the case, this policy may be flawed...

The telematics device is not meant to teach the young drivers how to drive (this is all down to you great people!!) it is only installed for insurance purposes.

Obviously there will be times in some journeys where you would need to make an emergency stop and this would not stand against you, however if you have made a few other incidents in the journey this could lead up to a low journey score.

See my comment above

As stated previously the telematics is not here to teach the drivers how to drive, it is only installed for insurance purposes.
Statistics do show that 1 in 4 drivers have a crash in the first 12 months in driving, however our statistics do show that ours is greatly improved by roughly 4-5 times that.

I think one of the concerns that we have is that the drivers likely to want or accept a telematics device will generally be those who don't have any really significant issues with their driving.  Those who need to be more heavily supervised will be those who wouldn't want a telematics device under any circumstances.

Obviously all insurers will be different in regards to the telematics and how they use their data, some offer lower premiums as a result of good driving and some have time restrictions.
Marmalade insurance products offer no time restrictions and also we offer the lowest premium possible at the start of the policy.

If the drivers do think there is an issue where the box is not recording correctly and the data is inaccurate we do always offer the young drivers the opportunity to have an engineer come to the home or work address to investigate the telematics device.

If it was up to you guys to record the data on the box would you do anything differently? e.g. Marmalade has no time curfews where as other insurers do, would you change this?

I think the curfew issue is a red herring.  Today's society demands much more flexibility in driving than probably any time in the past 50 years.  That said, if the telematics identified that the night driving of a specific individual is below that of their day-time driving, it may give an indication that more training would be of benefit.

Thank you all again for the great replies!!

In summary, whilst I understand that the primary concern of the insurance industry is to make money I believe that having a more proactive approach to improving young drivers road skills by working together with ADI's would be hugely beneficial in the long run.  You do a lot...I think you could do so much more.  Safety on the roads for everyone, young and old, is very important to me.  Whatever I can do to promote better trained drivers I will do.

I hope the above is helpful to you.  If you need any further information, even from a highly opinionated ADI, you only have to ask.

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#11 08-08-14 15:44:04

Marmalade
Member
From: Peterborough
Registered: 28-05-14
Posts: 21
Website

Re: Opinions on the telematics device

Thank you for the reply Lady-Hynarc!

You are correct in the terms that the data provided by the telematics device does not show the other road users/passengers or distractions etc, however as we all know you should be paying attention to the road and what is going on around you at all times so you can react accordingly to the situation at the time.
If for example a driver in front of you is behaving a little erratic then you would simply lower your speed and drop back to enhance the breaking distances etc.

The data is only provided to the law if they require this and this would have to be agreed to by the policy holder.

I agree if the driver is reading the road ahead and anticipation any situations then there should be no need for sharp breaking, however there will be times where perhaps you are driving on a back road by lots of forest area and something runs out in front of you and therefor you have no choice but to react to this situation in regards to sharp breaking and possibly sharp cornering.

In regards to the 2 mile and below journeys, we try and be as fair as possible so that then young drivers do not keep seeing premium increase's and we try and be flexible where we can to them.

In these circumstances these are the drivers that Marmalade wants as their policy holders, no insurance company would want drivers who would hold a high risk for a claim in the future for reckless driving.

To be as fair and as flexible as possible, Marmalade do not impose night time curfews, as some young drivers may work late in to the night or early hours of the morning.
Saying that we still expect to them to drive appropriately and take that extra bit of care when driving at night.

Thank you again for the reply and I look forward to hearing any further questions or responses.


We champion young drivers with award-winning low cost insurance for learner and new drivers and a great young drivers’ car scheme

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#12 08-08-14 17:28:42

Lady-Hynarc
Verified Member
Registered: 09-04-12
Posts: 648

Re: Opinions on the telematics device

I'm very disappointed in your reply.

In answer to your original questions.  Having a black box isn't good and it isn't bad.  I don't think it makes any difference.  My son completely ignored his and it had no effect on his driving whatsoever.

Does it help young drivers?  No.  Why would it?

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#13 08-08-14 17:36:24

Lewinpeter1
Verified Member
From: Morpeth,Northumberland
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 803
Website

Re: Opinions on the telematics device

Hi
I think black box tech. does influence driver behaviour and should be encouraged.
Night time curfews are unfair,I had a pupil who, after her test,got a low score because her journey straddled midnight(unavoidable)but who came back for extra training because she was getting marked down for her use of gas and gears.Her new car was a petrol and learnt in a diesil but she was overusing her gas pedal to compensate and then accelerating too fast.
Took half an hour(free)to put right.
Peter


Dont press that,oh @@##!

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#14 08-08-14 18:17:04

pegasus
Verified Member
From: north west
Registered: 25-02-05
Posts: 3,297

Re: Opinions on the telematics device

Hi Marmalade
Re your own telematics, am I right in thinking that the parents have to be included in the driving style reporting and that if there are problems your first actions are to recommend further training and it is only after a number (How many/) of bad reports that premiums go up?

Last edited by pegasus (15-08-14 17:03:36)

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#15 15-08-14 13:41:58

Marmalade
Member
From: Peterborough
Registered: 28-05-14
Posts: 21
Website

Re: Opinions on the telematics device

Hello Lady Hynarc, we find the feedback from many parents and young drivers is that it helps them be more aware of their driving style and understand which areas they needs to improve on. Obviously, every young person is different - for some it may not make a difference, but in general the feedback has been very good. smile


We champion young drivers with award-winning low cost insurance for learner and new drivers and a great young drivers’ car scheme

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#16 15-08-14 13:46:41

Marmalade
Member
From: Peterborough
Registered: 28-05-14
Posts: 21
Website

Re: Opinions on the telematics device

Hi Lewinpeter1 - we agree that nightime curfews are unfair! There is nothing worse than a young driver rushing home to meet there curfew as this increases the risk of them being involved in an accident - which is why we have no curfews on our New Driver policy! The good thing about these policies, in my opinion is that the learner can login and see where they need improvement. It is great to see your driver came back to you for further training!


We champion young drivers with award-winning low cost insurance for learner and new drivers and a great young drivers’ car scheme

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#17 15-08-14 13:58:57

Marmalade
Member
From: Peterborough
Registered: 28-05-14
Posts: 21
Website

Re: Opinions on the telematics device

Hi Pegasus, the black box cannot differentiate who is driving so we ask parents to be aware when they are driving the young drivers car. We encourage parents to sit down with the young driver to review journeys, but we did not insist on further training for parents or pupils, although we will advise areas that need to be improved on, such as slowing down around corners. There are several warnings before we will raise the premium and we will discuss the areas that need improvement and give pointers to the young driver and parents - this normally works very well and around 95% of our policyholders sail through their first year without paying an additional premium.


We champion young drivers with award-winning low cost insurance for learner and new drivers and a great young drivers’ car scheme

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#18 17-08-14 06:09:45

Coasting Mart
Verified Member
Registered: 11-06-09
Posts: 967

Re: Opinions on the telematics device

and around 95% of our policyholders sail through their first year without paying an additional premium.

That's good to know.  I suppose the proof of the pudding etc would then be a corresponding reduction in crashes against the average and against non-box drivers.  Have you got some handy stats which illustrate that a black box does make drivers less likely to crash?  Do your policyholders easily beat the oft quoted "20% of new drivers crash in their first year"?   smile


"I swear I found the key to the universe in the engine of an old parked car"

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#19 17-08-14 07:12:16

AUTAX
Verified Member
Registered: 22-07-11
Posts: 1,032

Re: Opinions on the telematics device

Thank you for your interaction with the members of this Forum. Thank you for choosing us.

I was a great supporter of telematic recording of driver behaviour and still am.
If a person wishes to improve their driving skills then this form of monitoring is great along with the rewards that follow.

You will always get the ones that always look on the dark side and can't see the light.
I recommend my pupils to look into telematics once they have passed.
Unfortunately I don't think the take up is that great.
Mind you most of my students these days are not in their youth but more late 20s - 30s.


Be Fear-less, go GEAR-LESS!

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#20 19-08-14 10:41:24

Marmalade
Member
From: Peterborough
Registered: 28-05-14
Posts: 21
Website

Re: Opinions on the telematics device

Hello, thank you for the replies.

Coasting Mart
Our statistics do show that Marmalade's rate is a lot lower than the national of 20% by 3-4 times, which shows the Marmalade telematics does reduce the amount of accidents with the young drivers involved.
As previously stated 95% of our policyholders sail through their first year without paying an additional premium.

AUTAX
No problem and thank you all for the replies and feedback!
The telematics is a great tool to monitor how you drive and improve area's that need improving as we all know the driving behaviour changes once they have passed the test.

Thank you again for the replies.


We champion young drivers with award-winning low cost insurance for learner and new drivers and a great young drivers’ car scheme

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#21 19-08-14 11:18:34

Coasting Mart
Verified Member
Registered: 11-06-09
Posts: 967

Re: Opinions on the telematics device

Our statistics do show that Marmalade's rate is a lot lower than the national of 20% by 3-4 times, which shows the Marmalade telematics does reduce the amount of accidents with the young drivers involved.
As previously stated 95% of our policyholders sail through their first year without paying an additional premium.

That's good to know, and I assumed it was a better outcome otherwise you wouldn't be able to offer a better price.  If they crash less, it costs the underwriters less!  And if I was a parent, not surprisingly I'd want them to crash less.

So a win/win - it costs you less cos you crash less, which is a good thing in itself of course!  It's not just about the dosh is it.
It may be that the 'sensible' young people are the ones who will go for a telematic policy, but I think it's getting feedback on your driving that's the vital thing.  Whether you're 'scared' that it will cost you more, or interested to see how well you drive, or whatever, at least they are thinking about how they are driving and trying to keep up some of the good practices learned before the test.

In many ways, a better and more specific/accurate form of "monitoring" or "limitation" than the rather blunt graduated licence concept.   cool


"I swear I found the key to the universe in the engine of an old parked car"

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#22 21-08-14 10:32:46

Marmalade
Member
From: Peterborough
Registered: 28-05-14
Posts: 21
Website

Re: Opinions on the telematics device

Hello Coasting Mart!

I agree it is a great way of reducing costs, you show you are driving correctly then the premium will stay low and hopefully the following year we can offer a further discount also from your driving statistics in the previous year!

Thank you


We champion young drivers with award-winning low cost insurance for learner and new drivers and a great young drivers’ car scheme

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