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#1 01-05-14 20:30:42

paulweller84
Member
Registered: 20-09-13
Posts: 14

LGV Test - Crossing Hands While Steering

Hello all,

Just wondered if anyone knows the definitive standard required on test for steering, i.e can trainees cross hands on the wheel when making quick tight turns? I was under the impression that DSA were against this but today one of my trainees was criticised in his debrief about using push-pull steering methods on some turns.

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01-05-14 20:30:42

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Re: LGV Test - Crossing Hands While Steering



#2 01-05-14 20:36:30

reddragonbus
Verified Member
From: Edinburgh
Registered: 05-02-06
Posts: 1,653

Re: LGV Test - Crossing Hands While Steering

doesnt matter what you do with your hands on any driving test so long as you have control over the vehicle.

A steering fault is when the vehicle doesnt go where it is supposed to, so if the driver is using pull push ineffectively and the vehicles path is in correct that would be a problem, whilst crossing hands or even palming the wheel is not a fault unless there is a loss of control.


LGV PCV Instructor DVSA ADI Fleet

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#3 02-05-14 06:52:57

AUTAX
Verified Member
Registered: 22-07-11
Posts: 1,032

Re: LGV Test - Crossing Hands While Steering

Correct. Although specifically aimed at car tests, DT1-page 58 basically states what Jonathan has just said.


Be Fear-less, go GEAR-LESS!

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#4 02-05-14 07:17:54

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: LGV Test - Crossing Hands While Steering

PP method is the safest to use so when a driver opts for another method then the questions are why and was it safe enough not to incur a loss of control


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#5 02-05-14 07:55:19

MGM
Verified Member
From: Surrey
Registered: 24-10-11
Posts: 861

Re: LGV Test - Crossing Hands While Steering

(ROG) wrote:

PP method is the safest to use so when a driver opts for another method then the questions are why and was it safe enough not to incur a loss of control

But these questions are not asked on test. The only question there is "Did a loss of control actually occur?"

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#6 02-05-14 08:01:39

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: LGV Test - Crossing Hands While Steering

I thought the sheet just had a STEERING box on it?


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#7 02-05-14 08:04:54

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: LGV Test - Crossing Hands While Steering

(ROG) wrote:

I thought the sheet just had a STEERING box on it?

No, there are lots of boxes

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#8 02-05-14 08:09:56

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: LGV Test - Crossing Hands While Steering

Roadmaster wrote:
(ROG) wrote:

I thought the sheet just had a STEERING box on it?

No, there are lots of boxes

But just that one which relates to steering faults?


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#9 02-05-14 08:23:43

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: LGV Test - Crossing Hands While Steering

And your point is?

Last edited by Roadmaster (02-05-14 08:24:12)

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#10 02-05-14 11:47:02

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: LGV Test - Crossing Hands While Steering

Roadmaster wrote:

And your point is?

The examiner could opt to interpret that as they wished


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#11 02-05-14 12:32:45

Zipper
Verified Member
From: Darwin, Northern Territory Aus
Registered: 20-08-04
Posts: 2,690
Website

Re: LGV Test - Crossing Hands While Steering

Now why is there an open can on my desk and worms crawling all over the place?
I approach steering styles like this:
Push-pull is, in my opinion, the best way of driving in traffic situations with the car moving at a rate faster than car-park manoeuvring speeds - it facilitates steering response when a  quick unexpected change of direction is needed, and also facilitates use of the indicator & wiper wands - it is very suited to modern power-steering cars where "pushing up" is just as easy as "pulling down" (or should be).
Hand-over-hand is a more natural way of steering, especially without power assistance - perhaps not as good as push-pull (or pull-push) for novice drivers, but still a very valid way of controlling direction.
And the only reasonable way to steer in very heavy vehicles without power assistance.

Today I took a young man for his test, after being involved in a car accident his left forearm & wrist is tightly strapped, he can manipulate the gear lever very well but does a lot of 'palming' with the right hand, especially during manoeuvres and sometimes in tight traffic situations.
I explained the situation to the examiner* who said  she would be happy if she saw he had good steering control - which he does - and he passed with a clean sheet.
(BTW he is looking into using a spinner knob if his arm doesn't heal).

* Not a UK examiner but one in the Top End of the Northern Territory, Aust.


Zipper ("G'Day Mate!")
I'm not 65! I'm only $59.95+tax
www.drivingnt.com

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#12 02-05-14 12:39:28

MGM
Verified Member
From: Surrey
Registered: 24-10-11
Posts: 861

Re: LGV Test - Crossing Hands While Steering

(ROG) wrote:
Roadmaster wrote:

And your point is?

The examiner could opt to interpret that as they wished

The examiner's scope for interpretation is limited, and in this case his instructions could hardly be clearer:

"To ensure uniformity, when conducting car or vocational tests and ADI qualifying examinations, only assess the candidate's ability to control the vehicle and do not consider it as a fault if, for example, they do not hold the steering wheel at ten to two or quarter to three or if they cross their hands when turning the steering wheel. The assessment should be based on whether the steering is smooth, safe and under control."

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#13 02-05-14 16:13:36

AUTAX
Verified Member
Registered: 22-07-11
Posts: 1,032

Re: LGV Test - Crossing Hands While Steering

My point exactly. Page 58 of the DVSA Examiner's Procedures Manual, DT 1.

Roadcraft shows the rotarional method of steering. I thought IAM recommended this book to their Members?

Do what's natural for the learner. PP or rotational. Their choice.

Last edited by AUTAX (02-05-14 16:15:23)


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#14 04-05-14 01:39:53

tuscanv6
Member
From: Boston, Lincolnshire
Registered: 11-12-13
Posts: 23
Website

Re: LGV Test - Crossing Hands While Steering

IAM does recommend Roadcraft. I'm not sure of the logic/rationale for lorries, but my IAM car observer said to me to use push-pull in normal driving and rotational in low speed manoeuvres because it's quicker, i.e. you shouldn't impede other drivers or put yourself at risk in lower-speed manoeuvres such as backing out of a parking space. He said the main risk of rotational was that if you hit something the airbag could go off and if your arm is across the wheel the airbag will hit your arm which will then hit your face and that could cause injuries. However, airbags work on g-force in order to deploy and if you hit another stationary vehicle they are unlikely to deploy until you are doing 20mph/30kph. If you hit a solid object like a wall, it can be much lower (10mph/16kph) because there is less give in the wall so the g-forces are higher. Most manoeuvring is going to be less than these speeds, so rotational should be safe enough.

Last edited by tuscanv6 (04-05-14 01:53:00)

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#15 04-05-14 14:06:14

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: LGV Test - Crossing Hands While Steering

Roadcraft suggests that rotational steering should be taught to be done correctly by an instructor - the reason for that is because many other risks come into play


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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