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#1 30-07-13 11:30:49

MarkWxmADI
Member
From: Wrexham, North Wales
Registered: 16-02-13
Posts: 41
Website

WOW Its getting tough...

Any tips or advice would be muchly appreciated pls...

Im 12 hrs in to my part 3 in car training as well as doing hrs n hrs of home study and Im struggling to keep my briefings down to a minimum (Im doing about 12 mins instead of the recommended 8 mins) I seem to be waffling & repeating myself?!? Also the timing & wording during the full talk through is still giving me problems... I find myself ALWAYS saying "think about your speed" or "think about the gear" instead of the clear instruction of "ease off the accelerator" or "change down to second" and Im not really giving myself enough time to talk through the observations....

Its definitely a work in progress, I know what I should be doing & saying but actually doing & saying it is another story!!!?!? My LDC tutor is awesome by the way, he's very patient, knowledgeable & helpful so this isn't any reflection on him its just a cry for help on here to get as many angles on this as possible.

So if anyone wants to share their experience, hints, tips or advice then it would certainly be very helpful thank you all very much in advance  wink


Mark

Last edited by MarkWxmADI (30-07-13 11:40:25)


Part 1 - 19/12/12 - 1st time - 98/62
Part 2 - 03/04/13 - 1st time - 3 faults
Part 3 - 11/09/13 - 1st time - 4/4 PST 5
http://www.learningwithmark.co.uk/

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30-07-13 11:30:49

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Re: WOW Its getting tough...




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#2 30-07-13 11:41:09

christhedrummer
Verified Member
Registered: 18-10-06
Posts: 1,163
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Re: WOW Its getting tough...

Do you have a training buddy? Worked wonders with me, we did 20+ hrs together and it really helped to get things slick...

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#3 30-07-13 11:46:38

MarkWxmADI
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From: Wrexham, North Wales
Registered: 16-02-13
Posts: 41
Website

Re: WOW Its getting tough...

I don't have one at the moment & its been something that I was avoiding but it certainly sounds like it could help so thanks for that idea  smile


Part 1 - 19/12/12 - 1st time - 98/62
Part 2 - 03/04/13 - 1st time - 3 faults
Part 3 - 11/09/13 - 1st time - 4/4 PST 5
http://www.learningwithmark.co.uk/

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#4 30-07-13 13:02:53

martin Williams
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Registered: 26-06-09
Posts: 1,144

Re: WOW Its getting tough...

8 mins for a Phase 1 briefing seems long to me. Personally I would try and get it down to around 5 mins and maybe a bit longer for Pedestrian crossings and signals.

There are some part 3 briefing CDs on the market for less than 20 quid which i'm sure would help you. Maybe do a search on Ebay and see if there is any on there ?

Last edited by martin Williams (30-07-13 13:03:43)

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#5 31-07-13 09:44:07

MarkWxmADI
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From: Wrexham, North Wales
Registered: 16-02-13
Posts: 41
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Re: WOW Its getting tough...

Thanks for the great advice guys I am listening to & learning from you all!

Triker you are right Im actually losing control of the lesson so completely slowing it down makes perfect sense, and starting the talk through with thought provoking questions earlier will give the pupil more chance to do it correctly. I seem to be trying to be the nice guy by wording things as "think about your speed" instead of being more assertive and telling them what to do i.e "off the gas and gently brake"! Its strange because as I talk about it on here & with my instructor I know what to do but when it comes to doing it, then it goes all to pot hehe oops!!!

Martin thank you for the heads up on the briefing times I will concentrate on bringing my time right down, someone has just suggested to strip it right down to the bare minimum & then add to it as necessary, kind if like attacking it from the other side (do it in 3 mins then add to it as required) sounds like a good idea to me?!?!

Ive got some great training DVDs with my course so I'll continue to work with them but I will also have a look online as you recommend to see what extra materials I can look at. I think the more the merrier as long as I don't start confusing myself eh haha (Ive heard good things about Blaine Walsh on you tube)

Thank you all for taking the time to write to me with advice & reassurance it means a lot & I will do this, I never expected it to be easy & Im actually enjoying the challenge. Its an ambition Ive wanted to achieve for years & this is now my time wink


Mark


Part 1 - 19/12/12 - 1st time - 98/62
Part 2 - 03/04/13 - 1st time - 3 faults
Part 3 - 11/09/13 - 1st time - 4/4 PST 5
http://www.learningwithmark.co.uk/

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#6 31-07-13 10:21:21

brod
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Registered: 20-03-13
Posts: 694

Re: WOW Its getting tough...

Your briefing very much depends on your recap!
The examiner will test your ability to ask relevant questions at the start, he/she will then dictate (with their answers)how much info goes into your briefing.
Example, if you are teaching emerging L/R then you could ask the examiner if they have covered it before? if they have not, then your briefing will need to be more in depth and longer, it could take up to 10 minutes?
Then again, the examiner may say they have covered emerging before but they are struggling with the observations, in this case you will need a shorter brief covering observations in more detail. These are just examples. Feel free to PM me if you want more info.
Your commitment will benefit you without doubt, Keep asking  smile

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#7 31-07-13 13:12:01

christhedrummer
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Posts: 1,163
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Re: WOW Its getting tough...

Is it Phase 1 or Phase 2 briefings you're finding more difficult?

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#8 31-07-13 13:38:24

brod
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Posts: 694

Re: WOW Its getting tough...

Phase 2 briefings  hmm  hmm ??

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#9 31-07-13 15:23:10

sofasurfer
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From: Surrey
Registered: 30-07-13
Posts: 310

Re: WOW Its getting tough...

MarkWxmPDI,

I recorded all my briefings on an Olympus digital recorder (a mobile phone does a similar job) and learnt a hell of a lot from the playbacks ! I also tried to get consistency in my briefings, I had a tendency to re-invent the briefing each time.

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#10 31-07-13 15:45:18

christhedrummer
Verified Member
Registered: 18-10-06
Posts: 1,163
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Re: WOW Its getting tough...

brod wrote:

Phase 2 briefings  hmm  hmm ??

People still call it a briefing while training... But you know what I mean...

I  probably shouldn't have been in so much of a rush and written phase 1 briefings or phase 2 recap / q and a as well.

Happy?

Last edited by christhedrummer (31-07-13 16:01:01)

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#11 31-07-13 19:22:59

Evan
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Registered: 27-12-09
Posts: 2,058

Re: WOW Its getting tough...

Triker and Brod there is no substitute for experience in the job to give advice and help others .... good posts guys

Last edited by Evan (31-07-13 20:50:10)

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#12 31-07-13 20:11:13

brod
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Registered: 20-03-13
Posts: 694

Re: WOW Its getting tough...

christhedrummer wrote:

Happy?

I am always happy chris smile happy is my middle name big_smile

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#13 31-07-13 21:44:59

MarkWxmADI
Member
From: Wrexham, North Wales
Registered: 16-02-13
Posts: 41
Website

Re: WOW Its getting tough...

Thank you all so much for the valuable input I feel Ive already made progress just from reading all your help & advice.

Yes Chris Im still at the phase 1 stage of my training mostly working on briefings & talk throughs

I will keep you all posted on how its all going during the coming weeks

Mark wink


Part 1 - 19/12/12 - 1st time - 98/62
Part 2 - 03/04/13 - 1st time - 3 faults
Part 3 - 11/09/13 - 1st time - 4/4 PST 5
http://www.learningwithmark.co.uk/

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#14 31-07-13 21:49:30

Evan
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Registered: 27-12-09
Posts: 2,058

Re: WOW Its getting tough...

Mark what I did when I was training was perfect one briefing on the one subject rather than trying To perfect them all. Once you get a set format of how you want to describe what is going to be taught the other subjects follow and it gets easier.

Just remember Brief Thing the less you have to say the less they have to remember. Only deal with the pertinent things you can put meat on the bones in later lessons.

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#15 31-07-13 22:10:03

MarkWxmADI
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From: Wrexham, North Wales
Registered: 16-02-13
Posts: 41
Website

Re: WOW Its getting tough...

Brilliant Evan that's exactly how I will deal with it too. It makes perfect sense to perfect one then the others should flow in their own way!!

BRIEF is certainly my word of the moment & if I can stick to that I'll be ok.

Thank you muchly smile


Part 1 - 19/12/12 - 1st time - 98/62
Part 2 - 03/04/13 - 1st time - 3 faults
Part 3 - 11/09/13 - 1st time - 4/4 PST 5
http://www.learningwithmark.co.uk/

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#16 31-07-13 22:14:27

Evan
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Registered: 27-12-09
Posts: 2,058

Re: WOW Its getting tough...

No worries good luck, I remember and feel your pain lol

Last edited by Evan (31-07-13 22:14:46)

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#17 05-09-13 19:26:44

brod
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Posts: 694

Re: WOW Its getting tough...

So, how's it going then Mark?

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#18 05-09-13 21:20:38

MarkWxmADI
Member
From: Wrexham, North Wales
Registered: 16-02-13
Posts: 41
Website

Re: WOW Its getting tough...

Hey Brod
Thank you so much for the follow up it really means a lot! Things have really improved after more lessons with my tutor & following the helpful advice I received in this conversation. Ive been working on the phase 2 subjects recently and my first part 3 isn't too far away now.

Im confident that I no longer waffle for too long on my phase 1 briefings & my talk throughs have improved after starting them earlier. Ive been recording my lessons which has really helped when playing them back & listening to what was said/done.

During my phase 2 subjects Im still working on level of instruction & trying to master the art of asking the question instead of telling or instructing the pupil & still working on watching the pupils every move as I still seem to take my eyes off them & talk a little too much to the windscreen instead of facing the pupil - its all things I know in theory but just have to master it 'in the car'.

The role play situations have sometimes been hard to see as "real" but I have to say my tutor has been brilliant & Ive met all kinds of characters lately haha

Im also trying to view my part 3 test as my first day on the job with real pupils instead of a test & it seems to be helping me stay calm about it all as the big day draws near.

Once again thank you for asking & thinking about me & I hope all is well in your world  big_smile


Part 1 - 19/12/12 - 1st time - 98/62
Part 2 - 03/04/13 - 1st time - 3 faults
Part 3 - 11/09/13 - 1st time - 4/4 PST 5
http://www.learningwithmark.co.uk/

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#19 06-09-13 06:31:32

brod
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Posts: 694

Re: WOW Its getting tough...

Morning Mark its good to hear you are feeling confident well done.
Your tutor appears to be doing a good job, from your descriptions of the role play it seems you are being trained for the real world, not just the part 3 test.
I would think, based on your commitment to this training, you will be very succesful. Please keep us informed of your progress.  smile

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#20 06-09-13 10:29:00

marconi1
Verified Member
From: Dawlish
Registered: 25-02-04
Posts: 693
Website

Re: WOW Its getting tough...

Hi

Now this statement is going to shock some and some will not agree but what do I know roll

You can pass part three and not do a single breifing

What,

yes although that is not what I am recommending.

I have seen this all too common fault hundreds of times (yes hundreds) and the cause is very simple. What are you being told.

My simple advice here is download the copies of the ADI26's (examiner marking sheets) and look at what THEY want you to talk about. If anyone finds types of crossings to name just one do show me where.

Make a list of each item per pre-set-test (it wont take long) the write down a Highway Code fact (do use the HIGHWAY CODE for this) and start from there but I suspect that when you have your HC rule that is often enough with a question to follow. for the educational amongst you and ORDIT trainer (maybe) this is known as using an empirical fact and it is the basis of all teaching/training.

If it aint on the list forget it as the examiner will have covered it...........................................

I know this sound too good but trust me....

the part three test is actually the easiest of the three.........................(there I go again with my statements)

Speak soon


Dave Foster MA, Dip.DI
F.inst.D.E.R, M.Inst.MTD, M.A.I.R.O, A.I.F.L,
Foster the Joy of Driving
http://dte-elite.co.uk  http://drivertrainingeducation.co.uk

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#21 06-09-13 11:27:33

martin Williams
Verified Member
Registered: 26-06-09
Posts: 1,144

Re: WOW Its getting tough...

marconi1 wrote:

Hi


the part three test is actually the easiest of the three.........................(there I go again with my statements)

Speak soon

   
Well if that was the case it would have the highest pass rate not the lowest would it not?

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#22 06-09-13 15:26:10

marconi1
Verified Member
From: Dawlish
Registered: 25-02-04
Posts: 693
Website

Re: WOW Its getting tough...

Not at all, it is very often the actual training that complicates it and the fact that so many are TOLD it is difficult.

There are only three faults you can actually make. Fail to identify the faults, now that's only about looking in the correct place and although simple I see this complicated so often. Anaylising the faults, again this is simply a matter of asking the correct question so many are hung up on asking the 'why' question believing why the fault happened to be the same as why the pupil made the fault. Once these two are sorted then the remedy is child's play. All to do with correct pedagodgy and hierarchy and not rocket science........................................

Honestly it is simple and hundreds of people I have rescued would now agree, in fact one of the most common things I ever hear a trainee say after the first session is 'it really can't be that easy can it?' I just smile and nod.

Half the battle is in the emotion and many of these posts just do nothing to promote the correct and healthy emotion towards the test


Speak soon all


Dave Foster MA, Dip.DI
F.inst.D.E.R, M.Inst.MTD, M.A.I.R.O, A.I.F.L,
Foster the Joy of Driving
http://dte-elite.co.uk  http://drivertrainingeducation.co.uk

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