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#26 28-08-13 11:40:05

Maisiejayne
Member
Registered: 22-08-13
Posts: 42

Re: Bay parking.

brod wrote:

Good post Ralge, it really does pay to do some research doesn't it smile
Thanks for the PM maisie, good luck with next test smile

Thanks Brod, im determined to do this. Wll let you know how i get on x

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28-08-13 11:40:05

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Re: Bay parking.




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#27 28-08-13 16:23:59

kaf
Verified Member
From: Wiltshire
Registered: 05-08-07
Posts: 3,328
Website

Re: Bay parking.

I'm with MGM.

But 90 is not exactly,hard is it?

Car width from bay, stop wherever you,like.

Reverse back to your turn point, full lock, adjust a bit if needed as entering bay, straighten up when in bay.

Simple.

If they want to do 45 they can, most actually prefer to,stick with 90 degrees.  Probably because it enables them to chose a bay after they have stopped and to change their minds on the way back if they want to.

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#28 28-08-13 16:31:58

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: Bay parking.

kaf wrote:

Reverse back to your turn point,

How do they know where the turn point is ?


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#29 28-08-13 18:08:04

kaf
Verified Member
From: Wiltshire
Registered: 05-08-07
Posts: 3,328
Website

Re: Bay parking.

They have to work it out.
It's all,about getting them to judge the size of the car, and where it is in relation to where they want to be.

I don't want them finding an "easy way " I want them to develop transferable skills that they can use and adapt to,any new situation they might find themselves in.


Oh good another instructor who doesn't use stickers on his car and actually wants his pupils to try and think for themselves.  lol

There was me thinking I was being too hard on my pupils.

Only a tongue in cheek post folks, but some of the ways I have heard from pupils about how to do manoeuvres.

Line the back window up with the fence
Line the back wheel up with the lines on he road
Wait till you are in line with the A on the sign in the test centre car park (the A is on a sign on the wall)

  smile

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#30 28-08-13 18:42:17

MGM
Verified Member
From: Surrey
Registered: 24-10-11
Posts: 861

Re: Bay parking.

kaf wrote:

They have to work it out.
It's all,about getting them to judge the size of the car, and where it is in relation to where they want to be.

I don't want them finding an "easy way " I want them to develop transferable skills that they can use and adapt to,any new situation they might find themselves in.

Watch it. If you're not careful you'll be giving them a life skill. wink

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#31 28-08-13 20:37:38

AUTAX
Verified Member
Registered: 22-07-11
Posts: 1,032

Re: Bay parking.

If the part 2 is done at a test centre with a car park then the Bay Park will be carried out usually when the last of the learners have left.

Thanks for the knowledge Ralge, glad I wasn't the only one under that impression. When told by an examiner and BSM trainer to use a different bay to reverse into one expects that to be the case. I certainly wasn't going to contradict those I thought knew better than me.

20/20 hindsight would be a wonderful thing - if it ever existed!!!   mad


Be Fear-less, go GEAR-LESS!

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#32 29-08-13 09:51:17

MAZ
Verified Member
From: N/Wales, Cheshire
Registered: 13-06-06
Posts: 838

Re: Bay parking.

Roadmaster wrote:
ralge wrote:

witness how many ADI's "dump" (as I see it, sorry) their car forward into a space in any car-park you visit and how many of the general driving public (their ex-pupils) do the same

Yes I often do that too.  It's so that I don't have to struggle carrying the shopping between two cars to get to the boot.

Yes I also "dump" my car forward into the bay at our local Morrisons every Sunday, I do it this way as I find its not nice to scrape a big trolly down between 2 cars especialy when one is mine to get to the boot only to find that someone has parked too close to get behind to open the tailgate.

Its sad to know that passing ADI's will be making there own personal judgement about me, and that they have nothing more interesting to do with thier minds.

Maz.

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#33 29-08-13 10:13:45

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: Bay parking.

Most of the bays at a supermarket are designed for front to front parking so the boot can be easily loaded - no problem at all with that

Why do they pull in forwards when there is a walkway behind them where they can load the boot from the walkway?


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#34 29-08-13 10:16:49

AUTAX
Verified Member
Registered: 22-07-11
Posts: 1,032

Re: Bay parking.

If carpark bays were laid out in a herring bone fashion then that would aleviate most of the parking problems. Pull in, shop, fill boot and being at 45 degrees reversing is made easier. Still got to look over the left shoulder but it is easier to see who is approaching.


Be Fear-less, go GEAR-LESS!

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#35 29-08-13 12:54:57

Evan
Administrator
Registered: 27-12-09
Posts: 2,058

Re: Bay parking.

Triker wrote:

Or people could employ some common sense which unfortunately isn't all that 'common'!


Common sense? Do they still teach that? lol if there was more of this commodity most of societies problems would dissipate.

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#36 29-08-13 12:58:53

kaf
Verified Member
From: Wiltshire
Registered: 05-08-07
Posts: 3,328
Website

Re: Bay parking.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't find it an issue to reverse in, and walk the 3m to the rear of my car carrying the bags.

After all, I don't  expect to have to drive into my kitchen to unload them!

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#37 29-08-13 13:07:20

ralge
Verified Member
From: Sheffield
Registered: 10-01-07
Posts: 320

Re: Bay parking.

kaf wrote:

Maybe it's just me, but I don't find it an issue to reverse in, and walk the 3m to the rear of my car carrying the bags.

After all, I don't  expect to have to drive into my kitchen to unload them!

No, it's not just you. (And well put about driving into the kitchen).


DSA Fleet Trainer, RoSPA Dip, PTLLS, Safed for Vans, NDAC/Speed Awareness on-road trainer, RoSPA RoAD Test Examiner.

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#38 29-08-13 13:59:51

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: Bay parking.

After all, I don't  expect to have to drive into my kitchen to unload them!

What a senseless attempt to make a point.   People with common sense don't make it awkward to load their cars or risking scratching theirs/other vehicles just on principle.

Last edited by Roadmaster (29-08-13 14:07:42)

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#39 29-08-13 14:10:47

Triplea35
Verified Member
Registered: 28-09-12
Posts: 507

Re: Bay parking.

Never used to reverse park much pre ADI days. When trained for Part 2 started to do it whenever the opportunity arose.

Not saying I was bad pre ADI days but constantly doing it has taken my skills/confidence to a new level.

The expression which I instil in all my pupils is 'USE IT OR LOSE IT'

Sad when you speak to people who have virtually never reverse parked post test and usually have been taught 90 degree method with ref points on instructors car.

Sad indictment on longer qualified ADI's that pre Indy driving (2 mano's) that reverse parking was the 2nd most common cause for test failure! (now 7th!)

Last edited by Triplea35 (29-08-13 14:30:05)

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#40 29-08-13 16:16:51

brod
Banned
Registered: 20-03-13
Posts: 694

Re: Bay parking.

kaf wrote:

Oh good another instructor who doesn't use stickers on his car and actually wants his pupils to try and think for themselves.  lol

There was me thinking I was being too hard on my pupils.

Only a tongue in cheek post folks, but some of the ways I have heard from pupils about how to do manoeuvres.

Line the back window up with the fence
Line the back wheel up with the lines on he road
Wait till you are in line with the A on the sign in the test centre car park (the A is on a sign on the wall)

  smile

How very true Kaf, hear these comments all the time along with many more bizarre methods smile

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#41 29-08-13 17:43:16

kaf
Verified Member
From: Wiltshire
Registered: 05-08-07
Posts: 3,328
Website

Re: Bay parking.

Roadmaster wrote:

After all, I don't  expect to have to drive into my kitchen to unload them!

What a senseless attempt to make a point.   People with common sense don't make it awkward to load their cars or risking scratching theirs/other vehicles just on principle.

I would suggest people,with common sense would,rather walk a few feet with shopping bags,,than reverse out of a parking space into a heavily trafficked area with the greatly,increased risks that entails, but hey, what do I know.

It's not principle that causes me to reverse into a space, it's safely.

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#42 29-08-13 18:13:58

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: Bay parking.

I've been reversing out of bays for over 3 decades without ever having or causing a problem, but I do see others reversing out without any consideration.  Most probably it's because they were never taught to do it safely.

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#43 29-08-13 20:17:29

Evan
Administrator
Registered: 27-12-09
Posts: 2,058

Re: Bay parking.

A lot of these people who are crap at reversing themselves, are also supervising learners, telling them how it only took them 10 hours to pass their tests. Well judging by how they drive and reverse thats quite evident. The blind leading the blind.

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#44 29-08-13 21:48:46

Zipper
Verified Member
From: Darwin, Northern Territory Aus
Registered: 20-08-04
Posts: 2,695
Website

Re: Bay parking.

Roadmaster wrote:

I've been reversing out of bays for over 3 decades without ever having or causing a problem, but I do see others reversing out without any consideration. ...

Like the lady who reversed out of her park and into my training car yesterday, and made a mess of my bumper. The first thing she said when getting out of the car to survey the damage was "Oh I'm so sorry I didn't see you".
(So much for the "relaxation time" I'd put aside for today, instead it'll be trips to Police station, insurance office, & crash repairers).

It isn't easy to teach reversing in down here because most people drive in and reverse out. Those who drive past the selected bay in preparation to reversing in find themselves tangled up with impatient drivers who don't understand what they are trying to do and won't cooperate.


Zipper ("G'Day Mate!")
I'm not 65! I'm only $59.95+tax
www.drivingnt.com

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#45 29-08-13 22:02:15

MAZ
Verified Member
From: N/Wales, Cheshire
Registered: 13-06-06
Posts: 838

Re: Bay parking.

I think the test of "what is best practice" is: How would it work out if EVERYONE used a particular method, i.e. if everyone reversed in "boot to boot".

I am just imagining the pandemonium at my local Morrisons which has an inclined car park, and shoppers leaving the un-braked trolleys partially full of shopping while they squeeze between door mirrors to get 2 bags into the boot only to have to scurry back with hands full to catch the trolley before it rolls in to another car or knocks over a child.

What if the person with the adjacent boot came back at the same time, who would wait, what would the etiquette be?

Imagine this en mass, not just the odd anal ADI, but dozens of shoppers all at the same time having the same problem.

I tell my pupils on the first bay park lesson, this is the safest way to Bay Park, however, it will not always be PRACTICAL to do it this way.

Get real!!! I live and breathe this job and have done for over 2 decades, but sometimes I think some ADI's need to "Get a life".

Maz.

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#46 29-08-13 22:36:39

ralge
Verified Member
From: Sheffield
Registered: 10-01-07
Posts: 320

Re: Bay parking.

Zipper wrote:
Roadmaster wrote:

I've been reversing out of bays for over 3 decades without ever having or causing a problem, but I do see others reversing out without any consideration. ...

Like the lady who reversed out of her park and into my training car yesterday, and made a mess of my bumper. The first thing she said when getting out of the car to survey the damage was "Oh I'm so sorry I didn't see you".
(So much for the "relaxation time" I'd put aside for today, instead it'll be trips to Police station, insurance office, & crash repairers).

It isn't easy to teach reversing in down here because most people drive in and reverse out. Those who drive past the selected bay in preparation to reversing in find themselves tangled up with impatient drivers who don't understand what they are trying to do and won't cooperate.

Your last paragraph describes exactly how it is in the UK.
AND reiterates what has already been said about the 90-degree method "it confuses the hell out of other drivers" who perceive the driver planning to reverse from somewhere almost alongside bay 4 (?) but planning to end up in bay 2 as being decidedly in the way.


DSA Fleet Trainer, RoSPA Dip, PTLLS, Safed for Vans, NDAC/Speed Awareness on-road trainer, RoSPA RoAD Test Examiner.

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#47 30-08-13 06:44:31

AUTAX
Verified Member
Registered: 22-07-11
Posts: 1,032

Re: Bay parking.

With cars getting ever-bigger, and the popularity of 'on-roaders', by the time you've reversed out of a typical car park's bay sufficiently for your front corner to clear the adjacent car's rear corner, you're at serious risk of backing into the car in the facing bay.

(Yes, you could reverse INTO the bay and maybe gain a bit more clearance by driving out forwards, but then you have trouble at the boot-end with kids' pushchairs and supermarket trolleys, and the associated risk of scraping adjacent cars in your efforts in getting said pushchair/trolley to that location.)

The car park's through-traffic gets held-up by vehicles having to make mini '3 point turns' to get out of -and often into- their bays, when the turn has to be 90 degrees. And no wonder so many car park dings and scrapes occur.

For the sake of losing maybe a couple of spaces per row, why don't car parks have angled bays arranged in herringbone fashion? Something that seems to be very rare in this country.

Surely things would be quicker, easier, and safer for everybody concerned?


Be Fear-less, go GEAR-LESS!

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#48 30-08-13 06:52:02

Evan
Administrator
Registered: 27-12-09
Posts: 2,058

Re: Bay parking.

Exactly what happened to my wife in Tesco's two weeks ago she always reverses in, came back and someone had reversed into her front bumper.

The debate as I see it is not so much about whether people can reverse into a bay, the fact is they are badly lacking in driving skills and worse still observations, which means they are putting others at risk.

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#49 30-08-13 12:13:56

Evan
Administrator
Registered: 27-12-09
Posts: 2,058

Re: Bay parking.

If people struggle with a skill why don't they practice and perfect it. I did when I was learning my father kept me in a car park reversing around cones. Why do people just want to scratch through things these days?

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#50 30-08-13 14:40:15

AUTAX
Verified Member
Registered: 22-07-11
Posts: 1,032

Re: Bay parking.

Without being ageist, a lot of the people Triker refers to who only use door mirrors do so because they are too crippled with arthritis and do not make effective all round observations. I'm not making an excuse for them but they are one of the main culprits for dings on wings etc.

Whereas, herringbone layouts in other countries help to eliminate a greater proportion of mishaps when using a car park.


Be Fear-less, go GEAR-LESS!

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