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#1 06-03-13 21:31:44

MarkWxmADI
Member
From: Wrexham, North Wales
Registered: 16-02-13
Posts: 41
Website

Road Sign positioning????

Helloooo

Im currently preparing for my Part 2 and its going well so far but Ive noticed that I seem to be missing a lot of road signs even when purposely looking for them and commentary driving aimed specifically for road signs.

The main problem I find is the positioning of speed signs positioned right on the T junction... especially when turning in to a 30mph or 20mph zone, it is really difficult to look out for the sign when looking at the road Im turning into then checking my mirrors once Ive completed the turn (as we are told to do) before speeding up or changing gear. Then whilst doing this completely missing the sign and then having to guess the speed for the new road I am now on!!???

How is it possible to see the sign, look at the road & check your mirrors all at the same time????? Why are the signs positioned sooooo close to the junction, they should be just a little bit further away from the junction no??!??!

Has anyone else noticed this? Has anyone got any tips for this please??

Mark


Part 1 - 19/12/12 - 1st time - 98/62
Part 2 - 03/04/13 - 1st time - 3 faults
Part 3 - 11/09/13 - 1st time - 4/4 PST 5
http://www.learningwithmark.co.uk/

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06-03-13 21:31:44

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Re: Road Sign positioning????



#2 06-03-13 21:47:24

martin Williams
Verified Member
Registered: 26-06-09
Posts: 1,144

Re: Road Sign positioning????

When approaching a T junction the signs for the new speed limit are usually visable on approach when you are doing your MSPSL routine. So they can normally be seen well before the approach to the junction. I can't think of any roads where the signs are positioned after the T junction in the new road as you seem to suggest in your question.
Now if you are refering to turning left or right from a major to a minor you should be looking for the signs when you turn into the new road. It's not just the road you should be looking at all round effective observations are needed at all times. Most of the time only a quick glance into the interior mirror is needed which takes just a fraction of a second.

Last edited by martin Williams (06-03-13 21:51:20)

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#3 06-03-13 21:51:26

MarkWxmADI
Member
From: Wrexham, North Wales
Registered: 16-02-13
Posts: 41
Website

Re: Road Sign positioning????

Yeh sorry I meant turning left or right from a major to a minor  hmm


Part 1 - 19/12/12 - 1st time - 98/62
Part 2 - 03/04/13 - 1st time - 3 faults
Part 3 - 11/09/13 - 1st time - 4/4 PST 5
http://www.learningwithmark.co.uk/

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#4 06-03-13 22:33:14

trunkmonkey
Member
Registered: 05-03-09
Posts: 747

Re: Road Sign positioning????

Useless piece of information picked up years ago - 70% of speed limits change at roundabouts and junctions.
Why are they missed?

Drivers are conditioned to look for hazards. At junctions they will mainly be moving - vehicles, cyclists and pedestrians. Therefore, something fixed and off the road is easy to miss.

This is made worse if the speed on the major road is higher than that on the minor. Turning left, major to minor is the biggest problem as, legally, there is only a requirement for one sign - to the left side of the road.
Where are your eyes as you turn into the new road?

Obviously, turning right your eyes are passing across the sign but don't appear to be recognising it as you begin to look up the new road.

It is important to scan as you turn and raise your eye level, the new sign has to be placed within 20m of the junction. It's pretty much in view at point of turn and quickly out of view as you straighten.

Find a junction where you've had a problem and take it slowly, last glance in nearside mirror and on turning, look up. With practice, takes a split second.

Last edited by trunkmonkey (06-03-13 22:36:16)

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#5 06-03-13 22:41:39

MarkWxmADI
Member
From: Wrexham, North Wales
Registered: 16-02-13
Posts: 41
Website

Re: Road Sign positioning????

Brilliant answer thank you TrunkMonkey nice detail and gives me something to work with  wink


Part 1 - 19/12/12 - 1st time - 98/62
Part 2 - 03/04/13 - 1st time - 3 faults
Part 3 - 11/09/13 - 1st time - 4/4 PST 5
http://www.learningwithmark.co.uk/

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#6 07-03-13 08:30:33

Triplea35
Verified Member
Registered: 28-09-12
Posts: 508

Re: Road Sign positioning????

MarkWxmPDI wrote:

Helloooo

Im currently preparing for my Part 2 and its going well so far but Ive noticed that I seem to be missing a lot of road signs even when purposely looking for them and commentary driving aimed specifically for road signs.

The main problem I find is the positioning of speed signs positioned right on the T junction... especially when turning in to a 30mph or 20mph zone, it is really difficult to look out for the sign when looking at the road Im turning into then checking my mirrors once Ive completed the turn (as we are told to do) before speeding up or changing gear. Then whilst doing this completely missing the sign and then having to guess the speed for the new road I am now on!!???

How is it possible to see the sign, look at the road & check your mirrors all at the same time????? Why are the signs positioned sooooo close to the junction, they should be just a little bit further away from the junction no??!??!

Has anyone else noticed this? Has anyone got any tips for this please??

Mark

I find this a very common issue with Learners,  particularly turning left including roundabouts where the speed limit changes on entering the new road and spend some time on it.

Work on looking at junctions/roundabouts where there are multiple speed changes and it will reinforce the need to be observant. Not uncommon but an example I use is a 30mph approach to a standard rb. As reach rb You see NSL signs. However turn left at rb and you immediately go back into a 30mph limit (usually missed by pupil) straight ahead goes onto a 50mph  lit dual carraigeway and it is only right that the road has no more signs and is in fact an unlit single carraigeway therfore 60mph.

It is important to 'see' the signs but if missed to make a calculated decision (rather than guess! smile ) as to the speed limit on the new road.

Example above: turning left, street lighting main road 30mph unless see repeater signs.
                        Straight ahead, lit dc looking ahead will see repeater signs for 50mph.
                         Turning right, no signage or street lighting so speed calculated by road and class of vehicle.

Important to work on the observation but also the recovery aspect. I appreciate Part 2 marking is stricter than L test, but still more likely to get a minor erring on the side of slower until see repeater sign than speeding will undoubtedly result in a serious.

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#7 07-03-13 23:13:24

MarkWxmADI
Member
From: Wrexham, North Wales
Registered: 16-02-13
Posts: 41
Website

Re: Road Sign positioning????

Thank you very much for that very informative answer Triplea35. It certainly gives me something to work with. big_smile


Part 1 - 19/12/12 - 1st time - 98/62
Part 2 - 03/04/13 - 1st time - 3 faults
Part 3 - 11/09/13 - 1st time - 4/4 PST 5
http://www.learningwithmark.co.uk/

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#8 08-03-13 08:31:15

kaf
Verified Member
From: Wiltshire
Registered: 05-08-07
Posts: 3,328
Website

Re: Road Sign positioning????

Mark, it is your scanning that needs to be worked on.

As you approach the junction scan widely, identify early the important aspects, scan into the road you will be going into, are there speed signs, is there a line of traffic, any pedestrians waiting to cross the road, any roadworks, by being aware that they are there, as soon as you have moved onto the roundabout you will be aware of the need to refocus on those issues.
Much easier to explain on the road than on a forum I'm afraid.

Practice commentary driving, talk about everything you see and how it will,affect your driving, commentary is wonderful for your observation and planning, anytime you stop,talking, you are not looking hard enough for things to,see!

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#9 08-03-13 09:46:12

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: Road Sign positioning????

We have many junctions nearby which have poorly placed signs and it seems they have to conform to law where the limit starts from rather than being in a position which is helpful to the driver

The sensible thing would be to place signs about 3 or 4 car lengths into the new road because there is usually no way the limit could be physically broken before reaching them

Law and common sense does not always go together


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#10 08-03-13 20:45:25

MarkWxmADI
Member
From: Wrexham, North Wales
Registered: 16-02-13
Posts: 41
Website

Re: Road Sign positioning????

Hi Kaf thank you for the info I will follow your advice & work on what you recommend  big_smile

Thank you ROG at least after reading your post I know its not just me going crazy thinking I was the only one that thought this way  cool

Have yourselves a great weekend guys  wink


Part 1 - 19/12/12 - 1st time - 98/62
Part 2 - 03/04/13 - 1st time - 3 faults
Part 3 - 11/09/13 - 1st time - 4/4 PST 5
http://www.learningwithmark.co.uk/

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