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#1 14-01-13 20:53:29

Cat8t3
Verified Member
From: Droitwich - Worcestershire
Registered: 28-08-07
Posts: 339

Check Test Done.

Hi Guys.

I did my check test on January 9th and got a 4. I'm glad I passed but was hoping to do better.

I covered mini roundabouts, as my pupil was unsure on her previous leeson, as to when to signal and when not to, on approach to minis. Covered that, it went well, but then she started getting to close to parked cars, so we pulled over, and recapped on meeting, and did approximately 15 minutes on that. Got that sorted, and her poistion pn bigger roundabouts was a little off, and she started to become very hesitant and not looking at was coming ahead at the roundabout, and missing the chance to go. So we spent the last 10 minutes going over that.

Back at the test centre, Thank god.

The 1st  thing he said to me when I got out of the car, was how would I feel if someone kept saying, Well Done,Brilliant Thats great sweets (I say sweet/s alot, in the same way people use Duck,or Pet)I still also call my pupils by their name. I wasn't sure, what he expected me to say, so I replied that I would think they were nice people. He replied, well i wouldn't id find it patronizing. I wanted to cry, I apoligised, but I also said, that is me, and I will find it very hard to get out of the habbit. He had done a tally and apparently I ahd said Well done, about 20 times within the 1st 10mins.  hmm

He talked at me for the next 15mins, and said that I ask questions, but then answer them before my pupil gets chance. Example..... my pupil signalled, when there was a junction before the one she wanted to take....My question. Was that signal well timed...pupils reply...No...I asked why? pupil replied, because it was misleading...I then reply, yes so other road users may think you were going to turn into that road.
Obviously I should have let my pupil tell me that.

He asked me what her approach to roundabouts is usually like, as it was apparent from the start that she was being hesitnat, and so why hadnt that been my lesson plan in the 1st place. I did explain that she is never hesitant, she must have been nervous.

When we got back to the test centre, we had to wait in a que as normal L tests were coming back at the same time. She was sat on her biting point, so I asked her to dip her clutch, and explained that she would burn it out and wear her own out if she kept on doing that in her owmn car. The examiner said I should of asked her to dip her clutch, and then asked her why I had asked her to do that, and given her the chance to tell me that she would burn it out, but I wanted to say, as intructors we actually get to know our pupils, and I know that she wouldnt have known why I asked her to dip it. Which is why I just explained it to her.

Since my CT I have noticed that I do q&a but I then just explain a bit more after. So I do need to stop doing this. I am however finding it hard not to praise my pupils.

Thank you for reading my post, I notice some of my letters are the wrong way in some words. I do apoligise, but my cursur on my laptop is playing up, so its taking to long to correct it.

For anyone who has their check test soon. Best of luck to you all.

Cheers Cat


1st Check Test 15/09/2010 - Grade 4
2nd Check Test 09/01/2013 - Grade 4

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14-01-13 20:53:29

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Re: Check Test Done.



#2 14-01-13 21:02:28

martin Williams
Verified Member
Registered: 26-06-09
Posts: 1,144

Re: Check Test Done.

Exellent write up, well done sweets   smile

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#3 14-01-13 21:10:32

RobC
Verified Member
From: Nr Ormskirk Lancs
Registered: 28-01-09
Posts: 765
Website

Re: Check Test Done.

Great write up, Im sure others will find it useful.
We can all improve and its seems that you have taken some of the examiners comments on board so overall it was a positive experience smile .


www.midasbustraining.webs.com
Midas Minibus Driver Assessor Trainer & Passenger Assistant Trainer
DVSA Fleet Registered Trainer

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#4 14-01-13 21:21:26

Triplea35
Verified Member
Registered: 28-09-12
Posts: 502

Re: Check Test Done.

Well Done Cat, not meant to be patronising smile

Have mine in a few weeks so will take some  of the feedback on board.

Considering 'advanced' roundabouts or DL25 remedial with real pupil.

Last edited by Triplea35 (14-01-13 21:22:46)

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#5 14-01-13 21:21:59

Cat8t3
Verified Member
From: Droitwich - Worcestershire
Registered: 28-08-07
Posts: 339

Re: Check Test Done.

smile Thank you!! smile


1st Check Test 15/09/2010 - Grade 4
2nd Check Test 09/01/2013 - Grade 4

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#6 14-01-13 21:29:27

colin166
Verified Member
From: Rushden, Northants
Registered: 31-05-09
Posts: 152

Re: Check Test Done.

Lovely write up and very interesting, also it made me think about my use of Q & A and whether I could improve a bit.
It is surprising  how much the pupil can get nervous on a check test.
Well done.
Colin.

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#7 14-01-13 21:45:03

Cat8t3
Verified Member
From: Droitwich - Worcestershire
Registered: 28-08-07
Posts: 339

Re: Check Test Done.

smile I forgot to mention my pupils check test lesson was  her 20th. I really just did cover what she was struggling with the previous lesson. Roundabouts was a good subject.

I was supposed to do it on October 25th, but my car had broken down that morning. I was going to do TIR in October as that was the next natural lesson, back then. I had worked myself up so much in October. This time I tried not to over think it, I kept telling myself if I get a grade 3 or below, then maybe I shouldn't be a driving Instructor. I just arrived on the day, and was exactly how I am on any other lesson. I was very pleased with the 4, but the examiners comments have been welded into my brain, and I'm getting mad with myself when I naturally eilaberate on answers, a habit that hopefully i will be out of in time for my next one.

My hat goes off to those instructors that get a Grade 6.  smile


1st Check Test 15/09/2010 - Grade 4
2nd Check Test 09/01/2013 - Grade 4

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#8 15-01-13 00:04:38

Terrier
Banned
From: Greater Manchester
Registered: 15-05-11
Posts: 657

Re: Check Test Done.

Cat8t3

Well done with your check test, you may have got a 4 but it sounds like it was a good lesson with learning taking place. Some of these de's have never been adi's and can be very pedantic, in the real world they would not last a month because they lack the human element needed to be a good adi, it sounds like you have it in spades.

Keep up the good work.


ADI Development Greater Manchester & Cheshire Grade 6 ORDIT Approved
Cardington Grade A  RoSPA Gold
DSA External Trainer Certificate for Instructor Training

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#9 15-01-13 09:11:33

Coasting Mart
Verified Member
Registered: 11-06-09
Posts: 967

Re: Check Test Done.

*** CAUTION LONG POST!  ***   tongue

Hi Cat
Well done on surviving the trial by check test ordeal!  Try not to beat yourself up over the DEs comments.  Can be hard not to take them to heart and give yourself a hard time.  Some of his points will have a nugget of useful truth in and some will be just one persons opinion and not based on the full picture.  After all he's only observed one short, and fairly artificial session.  You sound like you will keep working at it and processing (again and again!) his comments, but as Sooty said to Sweep, don't overwork the modelling clay!  Only you can be the final judge of your performance, and while feedback can be useful, if you have generally happy clients passing tests, then that counts for a large majority of being a good ADI.  Doing things in EXACTLY the official way (well, one persons view of the official way) may get you a higher Check Test grade but there's not always a direct link between that and doing a better job for your clients.

Here's a 'short essay' in response to your post!  smile  Not because you need lots of help cos you're crap!  Quite the reverse I'm sure.  Your post just got me thinking about how I've changed things in the past and I still reflect and try to do better, as most good ADIs do I hope.  So I've poured out some waffle here.  Ignore or consider as you will!  smile

Two points seemed to me the most obvious from what you wrote, so here's some observations/thoughts.

He had done a tally and apparently I had said 'Well done', about 20 times within the 1st 10mins
This does sound a little excessive!  smile
I remember from when I started I often said Great, that was good.  I then realised that it was just for reassurance (them and me!), and sometimes it would come out even when what they had just done wasn't particularly good.

So I have tried to stop saying the G word (good!).  The thing is that positive comments aren't actually much use.  Yes, they are friendly, reassuring and stuff but not useful.  Saying 'well done' offers some praise from you to them and says more about you than them.  It says "I'm happy with that, I'm not annoyed or thinking that was rubbish" and implies you'd like them to do more of it.  Good so far, but what happens when you don't say it?  The client might think, 'Oh no, that must have been awful as my instructor has gone quiet' or something!

The other aspect is, its very non-specific.  Saying 'well done' or 'that was good' leaves them with a lot of work to do to get any benefit.  "What was good?  What did I do there that she liked?  Which particular bit was important?" etc.  So rather than a global 'that was good', it is much more useful to be specific.  "Well done - I felt the speed of approach there was just right.  It looked to me like you had plenty of time to figure out whether to go or stop - that felt just right and the result was less rushed and smoother."  (Hopefully, continuing into a happy conversation to hear her view on the matter.)

Finally, in these brave new days of 'coaching' it's worth thinking about how to get them to do more of the thinking.  The above tends to be about giving your view rather asking them to self-analyse and work out for themselves 'was that good or bad?'.  Note the inclusion of the I statements above: "I felt the speed of ..." and "to me that ...".  Giving your opinion is (IMHO) perfectly ok, especially in the early days, as long as there's room for theirs and you encourage them to start doing the analysis as well.  So, ideally moving towards:
"Well, that felt slower on approach that time, what do you think?'
'Yes, I definitely braked better there.'
'And what affect did that have on how you felt?'
'Ah! Yes, I didn't feel rushed and I had lots of time to see that car coming around!'
'And how was the gear change?'
'It was smoother. That's probably cos I had more time wasn't it!'
'Probably!  So, what should you do next time?'
'Brake well, so we go slower!'
'Great!  Lets do it!"

(or something!)
(Have you noticed that in any example of coaching the client always comes up with the right answer!  In reality they often come up with "ugg, dunno really")


The second point, related to the first and this brave new world of coaching, is your terrible habit of finishing off the answers and expanding rather than digging it out of them.  Tsk tsk!  smile  You wrote:
Obviously I should have let my pupil tell me that.
I know that she wouldnt have known why I asked her to dip it. Which is why I just explained it to her.
Since my CT I have noticed that I do q&a but I then just explain a bit more after. So I do need to stop doing this.

Again, in the world of coaching the coach asks some helpful questions encouraging the client to focus and analyse their performance, make links and work out the right answer for themselves.
While there is undoubted merit in this, we only have an hour!  We also have normal clients who don't always come up with the right answer (or any answer at all!), and who may have the temerity not to come up with the ultimate conclusion that we are looking for!

Bad coaching is worse than good instruction (for want of some terms!) IMHO.  I've seen some examples of folk giving their clients a serious interrogation and a 'death by a thousand questions'.  The client is thinking: For ***** sake just TELL me the answer!
So, ideally, all we ever need to do is help our clients work it all out through our insightful coaching.  Of course, its always a balance of many factors and we will vary what we do throughout the lesson.  Sometimes TELLING is the best way, sometimes ASKING is more use, sometimes a mix of the two.
From your examples, it didn't sound to me like you had got the balance way out.  And the clutch dip was a good example of where TELLING is appropriate, more efficient, and less hassle for the client.  If she doesn't know, its going to be a long, long thought process to get there through Q&A!  At the end of a lesson, maybe this is more work than either of you need.  Just tell her!  Fine!  And expanding on the end of some Q&A also seems to me to quite appropriate rather than spending another 5 minutes trying to make all the links.  We do want to actually do some driving at some point surely!  smile
So, I wouldn't get too mad:
but the examiners comments have been welded into my brain, and I'm getting mad with myself when I naturally elaborate on answers
Consider what you do.  Add in this one persons opinion.  Decide if it has some merit and if so how much.  Aim to make any small changes you feel are needed, but realise its not the end of the world if you give extra value by expanding on an answer!

Anyway, I'd better stop as its run to rather longer than I was anticipating!  I had fun sorting through my thoughts and trying to write it coherently.  I hope it may help you to stop beating yourself up about it all.  I recognise this tendency to dwell on stuff and over analyse things in myself!  (You can probably tell from this 'short' post!)  roll

Keep on having fun!  That's the main thing!  cool


"I swear I found the key to the universe in the engine of an old parked car"

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#10 15-01-13 09:43:56

Cat8t3
Verified Member
From: Droitwich - Worcestershire
Registered: 28-08-07
Posts: 339

Re: Check Test Done.

Thank you Mart, for taking the time to write your post  smile and all the other members who have given me advice and support on this topic.

That is some really good advice, and I am most definately going to take it on board.  smile I am definately going to expand on my Well Done's and give the information as to why it was good.

It's funny as while we were in the test centre waiting fo the SE. We could here someone say very loudly 'You just can't go around speaking to your staff like that' Myself and my pupil wondered what was going on. When the SE said about me constantly saying Well Done etc etc, He also said 'you dont have to be liked by everyone, you just need to do your job, the staff in there are not liking me today, and they are all talking about me and think I don't know' As I am the kind of person I am I tried to reassure him and said 'Well you are the Boss, and every Boss gets talked about, don't take it personally' He frowned at me, as if to say, why did you just say that. Because he frowned at me, I said 'You are the boss arn't you??' He made me doubt wether he was indeed the test centre manager or not. He said 'Yes Yes I am' Phew, glad I didn't get that wrong. I then wanted to say but didn't, well no offence you also get paid a salary and paid holidays, Its in my best interest for people to like me, since I'm self employed and all.. But I held my tongue..

Anyway I went a little of course there.

Thanks again, Im sure I will be re-reading these posts, to get the info lodged into my brain.

Have a lovely day everyone.  smile


1st Check Test 15/09/2010 - Grade 4
2nd Check Test 09/01/2013 - Grade 4

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#11 15-01-13 11:30:45

Coasting Mart
Verified Member
Registered: 11-06-09
Posts: 967

Re: Check Test Done.

Hee hee!  Love the stuff about the SE conversation!  It is worth sometimes hearing that little voice in your head that says "shut up!!"   lol
Generally, the DSA staff I've met and interacted with have all been pretty good, but one or two do have some sort of "professional" head on and seem to have left any sense of humour or normal social stuff back in the office!  Some take the "non-fraternizing with the enemy" idea a bit too far yet with others it's just very pleasant when they let a bit humanity show through.  And one or two perhaps don't seem to appreciate what being a self-employed ADI actually entails!  cool


"I swear I found the key to the universe in the engine of an old parked car"

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#12 15-01-13 16:46:46

Cat8t3
Verified Member
From: Droitwich - Worcestershire
Registered: 28-08-07
Posts: 339

Re: Check Test Done.

smile smile smile Hi Mart,

I just wanted you to know that I put your advice into practice today, and it really went well. My pupils responded well to me saying Well Done and then extending my reasoning as to why it was good. On some occasions it lead them to ask questions! Im so greatful. Alittle more practice and I'm sure it will become more of a habit.

Wessex, You are completely right, although I'm friendly I do like to think I still stay professional.  smile


1st Check Test 15/09/2010 - Grade 4
2nd Check Test 09/01/2013 - Grade 4

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#13 15-01-13 17:12:41

daz6215
Verified Member
Registered: 07-06-08
Posts: 449

Re: Check Test Done.

Hi Cat, you might want to try and video yourself giving a lesson, it will enable you to see yourself from their perspective and you'll become aware of any bad habits!

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#14 15-01-13 18:39:08

Coasting Mart
Verified Member
Registered: 11-06-09
Posts: 967

Re: Check Test Done.

Hey!  That's cool Cat - I'm glad that was useful and worked for you.   smile  smile
Hope all your clients keep coming up with the right answers or even good questions!   tongue 
Have fun!   cool


"I swear I found the key to the universe in the engine of an old parked car"

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#15 16-01-13 08:32:23

martin12
Member
Registered: 01-03-09
Posts: 68

Re: Check Test Done.

Well done Cat.

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#16 22-01-13 22:26:35

absadi
Verified Member
Registered: 25-05-10
Posts: 71
Website

Re: Check Test Done.

Well Done Cat.

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