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#26 24-03-12 16:29:58

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: I'm an ADI, and disagree with this test result...!

Billinghamdrivingschool wrote:
(ROG) wrote:
Billinghamdrivingschool wrote:

... he is undertaking.

There is not a - no undertaking law

Ok... so there is no undertaking law so why do pupils fail their driving test for undertaking?

Ask the examiners why

As far as the law is concerned if done safely then there is no problem

My GUESS would be that the examiners see the highway code as being 'the way it must be done' and is probably the safest way for a learner to do things


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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24-03-12 16:29:58

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Re: I'm an ADI, and disagree with this test result...!




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#27 25-03-12 13:42:11

Billinghamdrivingschool
Member
From: Billingham
Registered: 19-03-12
Posts: 8
Website

Re: I'm an ADI, and disagree with this test result...!

(ROG) wrote:
Billinghamdrivingschool wrote:
(ROG) wrote:

There is not a - no undertaking law

Ok... so there is no undertaking law so why do pupils fail their driving test for undertaking?

Ask the examiners why

As far as the law is concerned if done safely then there is no problem

My GUESS would be that the examiners see the highway code as being 'the way it must be done' and is probably the safest way for a learner to do things

Ok. I will ask the senior examiner next time I see him and report back to you. I will hopefully see him sometimes this week. I do know that I have had a pupil fail for undertaking sad

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#28 25-03-12 14:00:32

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: I'm an ADI, and disagree with this test result...!

Billinghamdrivingschool wrote:

Ok. I will ask the senior examiner next time I see him and report back to you. I will hopefully see him sometimes this week. I do know that I have had a pupil fail for undertaking sad

If the examiner states it is illegal then PLEASE ask the examiner to quote the law that states it


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#29 22-10-12 15:46:12

BDofNI
Member
From: Belfast / Lurgan
Registered: 19-10-12
Posts: 18
Website

Re: I'm an ADI, and disagree with this test result...!

Here is an example of passing on the left due to slower traffic.
In this clip the traffic in lane two was slower than lane one causing me to either pass on the left or slow down and match the speed of the traffic in lane two.

http://youtu.be/POTe0ya9dLg


IAM Member

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#30 22-10-12 20:35:59

Promanade
Guest

Re: I'm an ADI, and disagree with this test result...!

BDofNI wrote:

Here is an example of passing on the left due to slower traffic.
In this clip the traffic in lane two was slower than lane one causing me to either pass on the left or slow down and match the speed of the traffic in lane two.

http://youtu.be/POTe0ya9dLg

Unbelievable!!!!

#31 22-10-12 22:45:20

MAZ
Verified Member
From: N/Wales, Cheshire
Registered: 13-06-06
Posts: 838

Re: I'm an ADI, and disagree with this test result...!

Ok the so vehicles are hogging the centre lane? We are not the police, just use the other lanes to overtake rather than take a risk overtaking on the left, or if you are close to the exit and there genuinly is not enough time, just hold back, if the vehicles behind you want to go faster then they can use the correct lane procedure to get around.

Lets be honest, these vehicles are hardly likely to move over to the left lane when they can see you comming up at high speed in thier left mirrors are they!!!

I don't see the problem.

Maz.

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#32 23-10-12 09:54:15

captainhook
Verified Member
Registered: 12-06-06
Posts: 2,197
Website

Re: I'm an ADI, and disagree with this test result...!

Im sorry but in my mind-say your driving down any 2 lane road and the traffic is either really slow moving or even stopped in the right lane, you should continue on in the left lane, as in fact it does say in highway code to always drive on the left. What are you supposed to do just stop in the left lane and block those behind you or even crawl at same speed as right but in left lane,or join the slow moving right traffic, which goes against the keep to the left lane.

In my mind you should continue in the left lane at a reduced speed so as to be aware of possible lane changers from the right.

I have heard of some pretty dodgy choices made by examiners in my time-yes everyone says well we werent there, but still.

I wouldnt agree with the jogging pace. Good hazard perception will suffice. But hey.

Last edited by captainhook (23-10-12 09:55:58)


For intensive driving courses or weekly lessons from a driving school using the latest Audi A3 - covering the Slough and surrounding areas - visit www.go-pass-driving-school.co.uk

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#33 24-10-12 07:51:08

Andrew lefthandseat
Verified Member
Registered: 22-12-11
Posts: 369

Re: I'm an ADI, and disagree with this test result...!

@Wessex good post. The psychology is interesting: there are no speed limits and yet drivers don't drive like idiots. Quite the opposite in fact. German drivers are intelligent and decisive, much more so than in the UK where the 70mph limit is imposed. Is this down to the German sense of order or is it due to a higher standard of driver training/testing? Or is there something else happening, like the driver taking responsibility for their own safe cruising speed, rather than a random speed limit being imposed externally?

What do you think?

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#34 24-10-12 15:15:20

Andrew lefthandseat
Verified Member
Registered: 22-12-11
Posts: 369

Re: I'm an ADI, and disagree with this test result...!

For me, it's the left-hand lane and everything else is an 'overtaking lane'

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#35 25-10-12 21:02:52

captainhook
Verified Member
Registered: 12-06-06
Posts: 2,197
Website

Re: I'm an ADI, and disagree with this test result...!

These days the left lane is largely redundant, because there are so many people especially trucks doing 60 or less it is quite easy to find oneself in the middle lane most of the time, not hogging but keeping up speed as needed.


For intensive driving courses or weekly lessons from a driving school using the latest Audi A3 - covering the Slough and surrounding areas - visit www.go-pass-driving-school.co.uk

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#36 25-10-12 22:03:14

MAZ
Verified Member
From: N/Wales, Cheshire
Registered: 13-06-06
Posts: 838

Re: I'm an ADI, and disagree with this test result...!

Blindspot wrote:

To my mind there is confusion about designtion of multiple lanes in D/cways and M/ways.

People talk about inside lanes, outside lanes and its never clear to me.

I prefer the Police method of numbering from the left. Lane 1, left, where all the trucks are; Lane 2 centre  where all the hoggers sit and lane 3, right, where trucks are not allowed.  (Expansion by numbers is easy - lane 4, 5 and so on)

How do you describe lane 3 in a 4 lane highway otherwise?  Outside the inside lane?  I dont think so!

To me it is illogical to call the truck lane the inside lane.  I had a pupil once who insisted on calling the outer ring lane on a roundabout the inside lane!

'Don't overtake on the inside'  What? 'Don't overtake on the left' OK.

Andrew wrote:

What do you think?

I spent a lot of time driving on Autobahns.  Germans obey rules and they also know that crashes at high speeds are always worse and involve more cars. They tend to drive more competently because their police are tougher and they dont want to get involved in crashes.

Other nationals, Brits included, seem to think that rules are for other people and the only rule that applies to them is the one of 'me first'.

Try driving in Greece!

BS

I nip this "inside/outside" lane rubbish in the bud straight away when a pupils refere to it. I have a road template of a D/C leading to a standard roundabout. I ask them draw a line to represent the path from the D/C straight ahead through the roundabout. Then ask them which lane they used on aproach and which lane on the roundabout? "Oh......" is the reply, I then hold up a piece of A4 verticaly and ask them which is the inside and outside, "Errrmmmmm", then I roll it into a cylinder and ask the same, "Ahhhh...." The penny drops. Its these TV Camera Action type shows I blame, another pet hate of mine is "Undertaking" a task traditionaly performed by grey haired gentlemen in shiny black cars.

Maz.

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#37 20-01-13 09:59:03

BB Driving School
Member
Registered: 22-02-12
Posts: 30
Website

Re: I'm an ADI, and disagree with this test result...!

Yes only slow moving traffic where you can overtake on left.

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#38 20-01-13 11:05:11

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: I'm an ADI, and disagree with this test result...!

BB Driving School wrote:

Yes only slow moving traffic where you can overtake on left.

What legal rule is that under ?


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#39 20-01-13 11:29:27

ratty
Member
Registered: 05-02-11
Posts: 466

Re: I'm an ADI, and disagree with this test result...!

(ROG) wrote:
Wessex wrote:

I personally think they will benefit with a test following their training by a serving or retired police officer.

Although a few observers may be ex/traffic police officers the greater majority of observers are not but the test itself can only be carried out by ex/traffic police officers

That TEST is APPROVED by the DSA but the training to get to that test standard is not ...... how do they figure that one!!


The IAM test can not only be carried out by ex/traffic police officers! IAM examiners only have to hold or have held a police advanced driving qualification, they do not have to have ever been class 1 drivers or traffic officers.

I am not aware of any DSA approved training. As far as I know, the DSA like the IAM, is involved in testing and not training. This is why someone can take either test having prepared for it, or not, in any way they want.

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#40 20-01-13 11:37:51

ratty
Member
Registered: 05-02-11
Posts: 466

Re: I'm an ADI, and disagree with this test result...!

(ROG) wrote:

My thought is that if the associates are passing first time and at a good standard then the training/assistance from the observers must be excellent so why not approve the observers?

All IAM observers must now pass the training set down in the manual before they can become observers and retesting is done every 3 years

How much post test paid training do ADIs do?

The driving standard required to pass the IAM test is not very high, that is probably why so many people pass it. There was, and possibly still is, a thought in the IAM head office that a large percentage of candidates should pass the test without any preparation! While I fully accept that some IAM observers / trainers are excellent, in my experience of close to 30 years membership, the large majority are not. IN MY VIEW the DSA should not 'approve' IAM observers.

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#41 20-01-13 11:40:52

ratty
Member
Registered: 05-02-11
Posts: 466

Re: I'm an ADI, and disagree with this test result...!

Wessex wrote:
(ROG) wrote:

How much post test paid training do ADIs do?

At the moment, none.  Examiners recommend it, it is discussed but I think in the end it is down to whether they have the money spare and the culture in this country to learn the minimum skill required to pass the test then they'll teach themselves the rest.

Take motorway tuition for example.  I will offer my pupils three hours tuition on motorway driving for 75. ......................

What training have you had on motorways?

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#42 20-01-13 18:01:03

ratty
Member
Registered: 05-02-11
Posts: 466

Re: I'm an ADI, and disagree with this test result...!

I'm only asking you a question.

Obviously this thread has not stopped.

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#43 20-01-13 18:28:18

daveh
Banned
Registered: 23-06-12
Posts: 102

Re: I'm an ADI, and disagree with this test result...!

Hi i would have thought we have all recieved motorway training as part of our part 2 driving.

Wessex i think you are a little off with ratty as i do not see any thing to suggest the start of an argument hmm

Ratty has asked you a fair question

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#44 20-01-13 19:06:03

ratty
Member
Registered: 05-02-11
Posts: 466

Re: I'm an ADI, and disagree with this test result...!

daveh wrote:

Hi i would have thought we have all recieved motorway training as part of our part 2 driving.

Wessex i think you are a little off with ratty as i do not see any thing to suggest the start of an argument hmm

Ratty has asked you a fair question

Thanks for this daveh

I would be surprised if most ADIs had had any motorway training at all. I can only speak for myself but I didn't have any training for my part 2 and I'm sure I'm not alone in this. I would like to know what training others have had.

As for Wessex, well I think he's just a bit sensitive at times wink, but thanks for your comment.

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#45 20-01-13 19:30:49

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: I'm an ADI, and disagree with this test result...!

I never had any motorway training, not even for part 2 as I already knew all about it.

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#46 20-01-13 19:34:11

RobC
Verified Member
From: Nr Ormskirk Lancs
Registered: 28-01-09
Posts: 765
Website

Re: I'm an ADI, and disagree with this test result...!

I had some Motorway training for my Pt2, I think it essential for Pt2 and cant see why some trainers would cover all other roads and omit Motorways as I went on a Motorway on my Pt2.

We never stop learning though and I have continued taking driving qualifications since qualifying, some of which have included a Motorway element.


www.midasbustraining.webs.com
Midas Minibus Driver Assessor Trainer & Passenger Assistant Trainer
DVSA Fleet Registered Trainer

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#47 20-01-13 23:29:24

martin_t
Verified Member
Registered: 30-12-06
Posts: 357

Re: I'm an ADI, and disagree with this test result...!

Was that an appropriate speed fault? ;-)

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