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#1 15-12-12 11:59:38

GRAHAM GEORGE
Member
Registered: 15-12-12
Posts: 12

SPEEDING

Hi folks normal topic but mine MAY be different
I have been driving a small van for 18 years ...this is an extra vehicle in my house it is used for and insured for private and domestic use going to and from work only ( fishing and for 2 dogs ) it is my van and has nothing to do with my work
My latest van is a 1400cc dies van Peugeot Blipper 2011
I recieved a speeding ticket on a dual carriage way doing 72 mph ? from one of the mobile units .
I have challenged this due to the fact I was not aware I have to go at 60mph
My van is under 2 tonne ..it does not /and is not insured to carry goods.
How I have not been done for speeding in my other vans beets me? ( lucky for 18 years ?)
Surely if this is correct ther should be something in the log book OR in the van OR the dealer letting you know this.
I am 59 and have never had anything on my licence and I think this is a big rip off and I am not the first.
And when you look at the speed liits in the Google they are quite deseeving ?
I spoke to one of the road traffic officers and he says I am ok BUT the Mobile unit officers say I am not,I am going to court to challenge this.
I spoke to a solicitoe and they want nearly 2000 this is probaly why this has not been challenged and the law sorted

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15-12-12 11:59:38

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Re: SPEEDING



#2 15-12-12 12:16:59

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: SPEEDING

Do you mean the Peugot BIPPER?  If so, this is a van according to Peugot, and is therefore subject to goods vehicle speed limits.

Last edited by Roadmaster (15-12-12 12:31:39)

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#3 15-12-12 12:31:18

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: SPEEDING

My van is under 2 tonne

https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits

Cars and vehicles (including car-derived vans up to 2 tonnes max laden weight)

When you say 2 tonnes is that unladen or laden weight ?

Just checked online and it seems that van is 1700 GVW so you can say bye bye to that ticket if it was a NSL

Last edited by (ROG) (15-12-12 12:37:29)


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#4 15-12-12 12:51:17

Mentor
Verified Member
Registered: 22-10-05
Posts: 386

Re: SPEEDING

The Bipper is not a car derived van and is therefore not included in the exemption from being classed as a goods vehicle even though it has a weight less than 2000KG. If it was a peugeot 207 van then that would be okay but a Bipper is not. The fixed penalty is correct and there is no defence in court on this one.

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#5 15-12-12 12:58:16

MGM
Verified Member
From: Surrey
Registered: 24-10-11
Posts: 861

Re: SPEEDING

Mentor wrote:

The Bipper is not a car derived van and is therefore not included in the exemption from being classed as a goods vehicle even though it has a weight less than 2000KG. If it was a peugeot 207 van then that would be okay but a Bipper is not. The fixed penalty is correct and there is no defence in court on this one.

Mentor is right: the crucial point is that it is not car-derived.

However, even if it was you were still exceeding the 70 m.p.h. speed limit. sad

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#6 15-12-12 13:03:49

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: SPEEDING

I spoke to a solicitoe and they want nearly 2000 this is probaly why this has not been challenged and the law sorted

The law is clear enough.    It's the driver's responsibilty to know  what laws apply to the type of vehicle they are driving.     
DTT forum has just saved you two grand!  (Less the fine for speeding)   lol

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#7 15-12-12 14:27:55

BDofNI
Member
From: Belfast / Lurgan
Registered: 19-10-12
Posts: 18
Website

Re: SPEEDING

It does look like the Bipper is being classed as a van, there is talk elsewhere about the same speeding tickets being given out to other drivers. http://bit.ly/Uvsj47

If I was in your situation I would contest the ticket in court anyway and see what a judge says about it. My defense would be that it's under the 2000kg weight to be classed as a "van".


IAM Member

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#8 15-12-12 14:31:29

Daveyboy
Verified Member
From: Nr Alford, Lincolnshire
Registered: 25-01-09
Posts: 377

Re: SPEEDING

Write to the office that issued the notice to owner and ask for;

Calibration certificate of speed gun both pages
Photographic evidence
Maintenance log for speed gun
Evidence that a distance check was carried out at start and end of shift*
Evidence that a vertical and horizontal check was carried out at each location during shift*

*As per Association of Chief Police Offices guidelines.

Most times they rely of the driver just paying up. If challenged it is surprising how often they back down.

Where as I don't condone speeding, it's up to the police/CPS to supply you with the evidence against you.

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#9 15-12-12 15:27:46

trunkmonkey
Member
Registered: 05-03-09
Posts: 747

Re: SPEEDING

GRAHAM GEORGE wrote:

Hi folks normal topic but mine MAY be different
I have been driving a small van for 18 years ...this is an extra vehicle in my house it is used for and insured for private and domestic use going to and from work only ( fishing and for 2 dogs ) it is my van and has nothing to do with my work
My latest van is a 1400cc dies van Peugeot Blipper 2011
I recieved a speeding ticket on a dual carriage way doing 72 mph ? from one of the mobile units .
I have challenged this due to the fact I was not aware I have to go at 60mph
My van is under 2 tonne ..it does not /and is not insured to carry goods.
How I have not been done for speeding in my other vans beets me? ( lucky for 18 years ?)
Surely if this is correct ther should be something in the log book OR in the van OR the dealer letting you know this.
I am 59 and have never had anything on my licence and I think this is a big rip off and I am not the first.
And when you look at the speed liits in the Google they are quite deseeving ?
I spoke to one of the road traffic officers and he says I am ok BUT the Mobile unit officers say I am not,I am going to court to challenge this.
I spoke to a solicitoe and they want nearly 2000 this is probaly why this has not been challenged and the law sorted

Excess Speed is an 'absolute offence'.

You may however offer mitigating circumstances in that you thought it was a car-derived van - there is a car version, the Bipper Tepee, and were therefore subject to car limits.
The Court may accept that and perhaps offer a conditional discharge. In which case you would not get points.

As for your van, this is a recent article from Business Car magazine:
Operators of the Citroen Nemo, Fiat Fiorino and Peugeot Bipper are being alerted to the fact their vehicles are subject to lower speed limits on dual carriageways and single-lane A-roads. BusinessCar is aware of a trio of cases where drivers were stopped by police for doing speeds acceptable for most light vans, but, due to an anomaly in the rules, not these three, which must not exceed 50mph on single-lane roads and 60mph on dual carriageways.The law states that car-derived vans up to a 2.0t max laden weight can drive at the same speed as cars, but despite having passenger car versions, the Fiat, Citroen and Peugeot vehicles arent classified as car-derived vans because they were homologated for sale first as commercial vehicles. They are the only vehicles, outside of microvans, on sale in the UK that have a GVW of below 2.0t yet are subject to the lower speed limits, and the lack of clarity has caught out some drivers. The three BusinessCar knows about were doing speeds that would not have attracted police attention in a car-derived van such as the Citroen Berlingo.A police source told What Van? its a situation forces are aware of, and officers could use their discretion on a case-by-case basis. A Peugeot source told What Van? that discussions are ongoing between Peugeot and the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders to close off the issue. We all know its a nonsense but its about getting the message through so the right people understand, said our contact. It needs a bit of lobbying to bring it to attention.

Clearly your van is subject to the lower limit.
Whether we agree or disagree on that the camera officer is correct.

Lastly, a speed of 72mph puts you in the area where a Speed Awareness Course may be offered. It's another option.

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#10 16-12-12 16:39:19

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: SPEEDING

What a daft state of affairs where one type of say 1700 GVW van has different speed laws to another type of 1700 GVW van .... stupid!!!!!


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#11 16-12-12 16:43:38

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: SPEEDING

It's even more stupid of the police to issue notices for these situations.  It's purely a technicality and revenue raiser, because there is no real offence of speeding being committed.

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#12 16-12-12 18:07:48

trunkmonkey
Member
Registered: 05-03-09
Posts: 747

Re: SPEEDING

Why is it always the fault of the police?

Whose responsibility is it to know the speed limit of the vehicle being driven?

The question is, why didn't the manufacturer homologate the car?
Simple to do when the company applies for Type Approval.

The law for car-derived vans has been in force since April 1984. The manufacturers made a mistake - the larger version IS car-derived.

Blame the manufacturer.

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#13 16-12-12 18:18:35

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: SPEEDING

I never said it was the police's fault.  But common sense and advice rather than revenue earning would earn more respect for a subject which is full of confusion.

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#14 16-12-12 18:37:25

ratty
Member
Registered: 05-02-11
Posts: 466

Re: SPEEDING

trunkmonkey wrote:

Why is it always the fault of the police?

Whose responsibility is it to know the speed limit of the vehicle being driven?

The question is, why didn't the manufacturer homologate the car?
Simple to do when the company applies for Type Approval.

The law for car-derived vans has been in force since April 1984. The manufacturers made a mistake - the larger version IS car-derived.

Blame the manufacturer.

People blame who they can to avoid having to admit that they are actually at fault and should accept that.



Some people also give out incorrect information about matters they apparently do not fully understand,

"When you say 2 tonnes is that unladen or laden weight ?
Just checked online and it seems that van is 1700 GVW so you can say bye bye to that ticket if it was a NSL"

for instance.

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#15 16-12-12 18:53:29

daz6215
Verified Member
Registered: 07-06-08
Posts: 449

Re: SPEEDING

What ever happened to common sense and discretion, or maybe it comes down to performance indicators!

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#16 16-12-12 19:45:26

MGM
Verified Member
From: Surrey
Registered: 24-10-11
Posts: 861

Re: SPEEDING

Roadmaster wrote:

It's even more stupid of the police to issue notices for these situations.  It's purely a technicality and revenue raiser, because there is no real offence of speeding being committed.

There was a real offence.

Parliament make the laws, that's how a democracy works. Whether they're sensible or not isn't for the police to decide: if they can choose which laws they want to enforce, we're on the way to a police state.

Anyway, the OP was doing 72, so he was committing an offence whatever vehicle he was driving!

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#17 16-12-12 19:47:16

BDofNI
Member
From: Belfast / Lurgan
Registered: 19-10-12
Posts: 18
Website

Re: SPEEDING

If it was me I would get the specification of the Bipper Tepee and compare them with the Bipper "van", I'm guessing there are very little difference.
Then I would contest the ticket in court and ask the officer who issued the ticket if he would have given the same ticket to someone driving the Bipper Tepee.
He will say no as the Bipper Tepee is a car and not a van, I would then ask him to explain the differences between the two.
May not work but its worth a go!


IAM Member

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#18 17-12-12 02:05:27

GRAHAM GEORGE
Member
Registered: 15-12-12
Posts: 12

Re: SPEEDING

Hi Gang thanks for all your replies
1. how many people would get a ticket for going over 2 miles on the speed limit ( if its 70mph)
2. van unladed weight is under 2 tonne
3. van is insured for social and domestic including going to and from work ( ins asked me useage)not for buisness
4. It may be that we should no the laws BUT who would look at this when you own the van and its NOT for buisness
5. Road traffic in office have a different opinion than the mobile units
6. Why is the private buyer not aware of the speed limit,if it was company owned most have put a sticker in there vans.
7. I personaly think there is a mistake here and nobody wants to pay the solisitors 2000 fee to fight this
8. I am going to write to my MP.. more so for the prinsiple

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#19 17-12-12 11:54:27

robcooling
Verified Member
From: Nottingham
Registered: 02-04-09
Posts: 1,451
Website

Re: SPEEDING

My wife just read this thread and realised she's been going a bit too quick in her Iceland van! She now knows she should keep to 60 in a dual carriageway.


Rob

http://www.appledriving.co.uk - Driving Lessons in Nottingham

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#20 17-12-12 14:47:56

ratty
Member
Registered: 05-02-11
Posts: 466

Re: SPEEDING

GRAHAM GEORGE wrote:

Hi Gang thanks for all your replies
1. how many people would get a ticket for going over 2 miles on the speed limit ( if its 70mph)
2. van unladed weight is under 2 tonne
3. van is insured for social and domestic including going to and from work ( ins asked me useage)not for buisness
4. It may be that we should no the laws BUT who would look at this when you own the van and its NOT for buisness
5. Road traffic in office have a different opinion than the mobile units
6. Why is the private buyer not aware of the speed limit,if it was company owned most have put a sticker in there vans.
7. I personaly think there is a mistake here and nobody wants to pay the solisitors 2000 fee to fight this
8. I am going to write to my MP.. more so for the prinsiple


Hello

Are you an ADI or involved in the driver training industry at all?

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#21 17-12-12 15:47:21

trunkmonkey
Member
Registered: 05-03-09
Posts: 747

Re: SPEEDING

BDofNI wrote:

If it was me I would get the specification of the Bipper Tepee and compare them with the Bipper "van", I'm guessing there are very little difference.
Then I would contest the ticket in court and ask the officer who issued the ticket if he would have given the same ticket to someone driving the Bipper Tepee.
He will say no as the Bipper Tepee is a car and not a van, I would then ask him to explain the differences between the two.
May not work but its worth a go!

I would not go along with that advice.

As I said earlier, Excess Speed is an 'absolute offence', it is irrelevant that the driver knew or didn't know the speed limit for the vehicle.
All the police have to prove is the speed limit for the road, the speed limit for the vehicle and the fact that limit was exceeded.

For the OP: The fact that you use your van socially rather than for business is not relevant. The speed limit is for the class of vehicle, not the use of the vehicle.
If I had 12 kids and bought a minibus to cart them around as the family transport, it is still a minibus.

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#22 17-12-12 16:11:47

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: SPEEDING

Excluding the towing speed limits, would it be a simple and cheap idea to fix a plate in vehicles which have a lower limit than others saying....

Vehicle subject to lower speed limits so please check the law before driving

There may be the odd import which slips through but most would get covered


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#23 17-12-12 17:13:09

GRAHAM GEORGE
Member
Registered: 15-12-12
Posts: 12

Re: SPEEDING

Hi gang looked and phoned peugeot dealers
They say my vanS   cerb weight 1300
                             gvw is 1710 fully loaded

That is under the 2 tonne act for 70mph going by uk speed limits in Google

Stating exact words below in UK speed limits 17/12/12
If your van has a max laden weight ( gross vehicle weight ) of over 2 tonne then you are restricted to the lower speed limits on single and dual carrigeways

Graham George

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#24 17-12-12 17:27:44

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: SPEEDING

Graham,

The dealer has given you the info you needed:   

They say my VAN...

Being a van  it's classed as a goods vehicle  not exceeding 7.5 tonnes maximum laden weight for which the speed limit on a dual carriageway is 60 mph. 
Just have a look in the highway code.

Last edited by Roadmaster (17-12-12 17:29:07)

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#25 17-12-12 17:35:14

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: SPEEDING

Did the dealer say it was a car derived van ?

Ask the dealer what speed limits your van must adhere to?


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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