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#1 20-08-12 18:12:05

Johnmac
Member
Registered: 20-08-12
Posts: 6

Assessment before test?

I've been teaching my daughter to drive. We've done 60 hours and we hope to do another 40 hours before the test at the end of September.

I'd like her to be assessed by a an experienced professorial instructor a couple of weeks before the test. But I wonder how most instructors will take that request? Will they be happy to help, or will there be a resentment about the amateur instruction?

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20-08-12 18:12:05

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#2 20-08-12 18:26:22

VandADI
Administrator
From: Coulsdon, Surrey
Registered: 29-02-04
Posts: 7,596

Re: Assessment before test?

I cannot see any reason why an ADI would show resentment, however I would recommend commencing professional lessons at least 3 weeks (or more) if possible before the test, this way if there are any areas that need work on you will have time to sort it, also it may give you the opportunity to work together with your daughter to rectify them, if at all.
I would also suggest you joining your daughter on her lessons, this would greatly benefit both of you if you wanted to continue private practice, also it will get your daughter used to a person sitting in on the back as this is now an option available to you/or the driving instructor on the driving test.

Good luck.

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#3 20-08-12 18:45:20

martin Williams
Verified Member
Registered: 26-06-09
Posts: 1,144

Re: Assessment before test?

It won't be a problem. I did this with a pupil he needed around 6 hrs to sort some minor problems out mostly mirror checks and observations when reversing. He passed first time.

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#4 20-08-12 19:06:37

Terrier
Banned
From: Greater Manchester
Registered: 15-05-11
Posts: 657

Re: Assessment before test?

I don't think any truly professional ADI would object to doing this. It may help if you let people know the area that you live in, I'm sure there are plenty of very good instructors on this forum who could help. wink


ADI Development Greater Manchester & Cheshire Grade 6 ORDIT Approved
Cardington Grade A  RoSPA Gold
DSA External Trainer Certificate for Instructor Training

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#5 20-08-12 19:39:33

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: Assessment before test?

I will be doing the same as you soon - teaching my daughter to drive - but I will be getting her assessed by an ADI periodically

As there are loads in my IAM group then it should not be a problem


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#6 20-08-12 19:43:00

Johnmac
Member
Registered: 20-08-12
Posts: 6

Re: Assessment before test?

Thanks, we're in the Crewe area. Would it be reasonable to ask the ADI to use her Fiat Panda, rather than have a change of car for her?

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#7 20-08-12 19:57:38

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: Assessment before test?

Johnmac wrote:

Thanks, we're in the Crewe area. Would it be reasonable to ask the ADI to use her Fiat Panda, rather than have a change of car for her?

Unlikely to be a problem

If using that vehicle for the test - http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Le … DG_4022543


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#8 20-08-12 21:03:02

Zipper
Verified Member
From: Darwin, Northern Territory Aus
Registered: 20-08-04
Posts: 2,695
Website

Re: Assessment before test?

These types of lessons are very common down here, and Vanda's comments re commencing a few weeks ahead and going along on the lessons, hold true.


Zipper ("G'Day Mate!")
I'm not 65! I'm only $59.95+tax
www.drivingnt.com

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#9 20-08-12 21:04:06

martin Williams
Verified Member
Registered: 26-06-09
Posts: 1,144

Re: Assessment before test?

Johnmac wrote:

Thanks, we're in the Crewe area. Would it be reasonable to ask the ADI to use her Fiat Panda, rather than have a change of car for her?

I expect the car wont be insured for the ADI to do payed instruction so it may be a problem but you can check with the insurance company. Nothing wrong with having the lessons in the ADIs car then using her own car on test day as long as it's roadworthy for test.

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#10 20-08-12 21:26:25

Lewinpeter1
Verified Member
From: Morpeth,Northumberland
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 803
Website

Re: Assessment before test?

Hi
ADI insurance usually covers tuition in a pupils own car;mine certainly does.
Peter


Dont press that,oh @@##!

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#11 21-08-12 05:35:51

MGM
Verified Member
From: Surrey
Registered: 24-10-11
Posts: 861

Re: Assessment before test?

martin Williams wrote:
Johnmac wrote:

Thanks, we're in the Crewe area. Would it be reasonable to ask the ADI to use her Fiat Panda, rather than have a change of car for her?

I expect the car wont be insured for the ADI to do payed instruction so it may be a problem but you can check with the insurance company. Nothing wrong with having the lessons in the ADIs car then using her own car on test day as long as it's roadworthy for test.

If the pupil is insured to drive the car (while supervised), then surely it is irrelevant whether the supervisor is an ADI, her dad, or whoever?

However, it may be worth checking that your public liability and professional indemnity policies still apply, though I'd be surprised if they didn't.

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#12 21-08-12 08:42:34

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: Assessment before test?

Blindspot wrote:

Dont forget the tell me show me questions as applicable to her car.  Let me know (PM) if you need a source for these.

VIDEO - Show Me Tell Me Questions


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#13 21-08-12 10:37:47

martin Williams
Verified Member
Registered: 26-06-09
Posts: 1,144

Re: Assessment before test?

Lewinpeter1 wrote:

Hi
ADI insurance usually covers tuition in a pupils own car;mine certainly does.
Peter

You will only be covered to do tuition by your insurance company if the pupils car has dual controls. The pupils car wont be covered for reward or hire so it won't be cover. I know as i rang my insurance company up and they imformed me i would not be covered on their policy.

It makes me wonder how many ADIs do this not knowing they are not fully covered.

Last edited by martin Williams (21-08-12 10:38:35)

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#14 21-08-12 11:15:03

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: Assessment before test?

martin Williams wrote:
Lewinpeter1 wrote:

Hi
ADI insurance usually covers tuition in a pupils own car;mine certainly does.
Peter

You will only be covered to do tuition by your insurance company if the pupils car has dual controls.

Nonsense.      Car insurance covers a person/persons to drive a specific car, it has nothing to do with giving tuition.   If the pupil has insuance on the car they are driving,  providing they have a qualified driver supervising, then they care covered.   As mgm stated, it does not matter who is accompanying them.  The pupil's  car is not being used for hire or reward. i.e. the insured (the pupil) is not being paid nor are they hiring it out.

As for your insurance covering tuition in a pupils car, it doesn't, because as just stated insurance covers the car and driver(s) named in the policy. It is motor insurance, not tuition insurance.

Last edited by Roadmaster (21-08-12 11:31:23)

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#15 21-08-12 12:24:15

martin Williams
Verified Member
Registered: 26-06-09
Posts: 1,144

Re: Assessment before test?

Roadmaster wrote:
martin Williams wrote:
Lewinpeter1 wrote:

Hi
ADI insurance usually covers tuition in a pupils own car;mine certainly does.
Peter

You will only be covered to do tuition by your insurance company if the pupils car has dual controls.

Nonsense.      Car insurance covers a person/persons to drive a specific car, it has nothing to do with giving tuition.   If the pupil has insuance on the car they are driving,  providing they have a qualified driver supervising, then they care covered.   As mgm stated, it does not matter who is accompanying them.  The pupil's  car is not being used for hire or reward. i.e. the insured (the pupil) is not being paid nor are they hiring it out.

As for your insurance covering tuition in a pupils car, it doesn't, because as just stated insurance covers the car and driver(s) named in the policy. It is motor insurance, not tuition insurance.

That's what i said it does not cover tuition in your pupils car.

The problem will occur when you have an accident and the third party puts a claim claiming the ADI was at fault for poor instruction/coaching and the pupil says the same thing.

Your insurance company or theirs will not cover you so you will have to pay the whole bill for the legal costs, injuries, and damage to both vehicles assuming you take it to court and loose.

Are you covered legally........Yes if they are insured to drive their car.
But be warned it will may cost you dearly if something goes wrong.

Last edited by martin Williams (21-08-12 12:25:25)

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#16 21-08-12 13:58:31

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: Assessment before test?

That's what i said it does not cover tuition in your pupils car.

What you said was You will only be covered to do tuition by your insurance company if the pupils car has dual controls.
That's rubbish.  MOTOR insurance does not cover tuition anywhere.


The problem will occur when you have an accident and the third party puts a claim claiming the ADI was at fault for poor instruction/coaching and the pupil says the same thing.

Keep it real.     A third party would be claiming off the pupil's insurance for damage to their vehicle.  That's all they could claim and it would then be up to the insurers to decide  fault, i.e. whether their insured DRIVER  was to blame.

Last edited by Roadmaster (21-08-12 14:39:53)

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#17 21-08-12 14:59:53

kaf
Verified Member
From: Wiltshire
Registered: 05-08-07
Posts: 3,328
Website

Re: Assessment before test?

I can't believe this 'hire or reward' chestnut keeps coming up, it has been done to death.

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#18 21-08-12 15:07:55

martin Williams
Verified Member
Registered: 26-06-09
Posts: 1,144

Re: Assessment before test?

Roadmaster wrote:

That's what i said it does not cover tuition in your pupils car.

What you said was You will only be covered to do tuition by your insurance company if the pupils car has dual controls.
That's rubbish.  MOTOR insurance does not cover tuition anywhere.

Where did i say anything about MOTOR insurance what i said was TUITION cover for the ADI? My policy has an added extra for Professional Indemnity and Personal liability tuition in any vehicle with duals.  Members of the DIA also have this cover and it is for when they give tuition in any vehicle not just their own. It sounds like you feel this cover is not needed in the real world as you put it. I feel it's a must which every ADI should have.

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#19 21-08-12 15:30:16

MGM
Verified Member
From: Surrey
Registered: 24-10-11
Posts: 861

Re: Assessment before test?

Roadmaster wrote:

That's what i said it does not cover tuition in your pupils car.

What you said was You will only be covered to do tuition by your insurance company if the pupils car has dual controls.
That's rubbish.  MOTOR insurance does not cover tuition anywhere.


The problem will occur when you have an accident and the third party puts a claim claiming the ADI was at fault for poor instruction/coaching and the pupil says the same thing.

Keep it real.     A third party would be claiming off the pupil's insurance for damage to their vehicle.  That's all they could claim and it would then be up to the insurers to decide  fault, i.e. whether their insured DRIVER  was to blame.

Indeed. And if the driver blamed you for poor instruction, and in the unlikely event that their insurers listened and tried to sue you, it would be your professional indemnity policy that would defend you (if you have one). Your motor insurance policy is completely irrelevant when you're teaching in the pupil's car.

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#20 21-08-12 15:36:29

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: Assessment before test?

We are going back into fantasy land now, with this professional indemnity cover scam. 
Those who've bought it (and you do pay for it through your DIA membership)  have been conned into believing that they need it because someone is going to sue them over 'poor tuition'.

If you are giving poor tuition, as per post 19, and who could prove it?, you need to get some retraining!

By the way Martin, it's public liability cover, not personal, and that's included in all motor insurance by law.

Last edited by Roadmaster (21-08-12 15:39:39)

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#21 21-08-12 16:23:04

MGM
Verified Member
From: Surrey
Registered: 24-10-11
Posts: 861

Re: Assessment before test?

Roadmaster wrote:

We are going back into fantasy land now, with this professional indemnity cover scam. 
Those who've bought it (and you do pay for it through your DIA membership)  have been conned into believing that they need it because someone is going to sue them over 'poor tuition'.

If you are giving poor tuition, as per post 19, and who could prove it?, you need to get some retraining!

By the way Martin, it's public liability cover, not personal, and that's included in all motor insurance by law.

I agree it's extremely unlikely that you'll ever need  to use professional indemnity insurance. However, if someone did ever sue you just the cost of defending yourself could sink the business, so it's worth having (especially as a 'freebie' with MSA or DIA insurance).

Any public liability insurance included with your motor insurance will be unlikely to cover any non-car-related incidents, e.g accidents on home visits or classroom work.

Both of these are in the category of low risk, but potentially high cost.

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#22 21-08-12 19:12:05

MGM
Verified Member
From: Surrey
Registered: 24-10-11
Posts: 861

Re: Assessment before test?

Blindspot wrote:

Poor old Johnmac.  You must be wondering what hell you started here.

It is, howeve, important to ring your insurance company and just tell them what you have in mind.

Any ADI you engage should want to know about your insurance and he will also give you a steer on what to ensure about the car.  Tyres, lights, rear view mirror for him and so on.  Random warning lights on the dash tend to agitate examiners too.  Clean the car spotless inside and out, especially the glass, and if the passenger seat has stains on it buy a seat cover.

BS

Indeed.

Johnmac - ignore everything else after post #8. Good luck!

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#23 19-02-13 21:25:04

Saint_Albans_ADI
Member
From: Saint Albans Hertfordshire
Registered: 19-02-13
Posts: 30
Website

Re: Assessment before test?

Just a quick thought on this what would happen if a driving instructor was accompanying a learner in their own car and a situation was to arise where the instructor was expected to take action to try to prevent a collision and he tried to take control of the steering wheel and in doing so was unable to prevent a collision would it not be possible that the learner then states that it was because of the instructor grabbing the wheel that the collision occurred....

We all are used to pressing the dual brake at the same time as steering giving us more time to react.

I normally inform the pupils that if they wish to take a lesson in own car then I am more than happy to do this but I am not going to put myself in a position where I am going to get the blame for a collision.

What are your views to my thinking


Driving Lessons in and around Saint Albans Hertfordshire
www.i-passed.co.uk

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#24 19-02-13 21:27:23

Evan
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Registered: 27-12-09
Posts: 2,058

Re: Assessment before test?

If you are taking payment for the lesson you are responsible for anything that happens I'm afraid.

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#25 20-02-13 08:05:55

kaf
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From: Wiltshire
Registered: 05-08-07
Posts: 3,328
Website

Re: Assessment before test?

Evan, you cannot be responsible when you have no control.
I get them to sign a disclaimer before lessons in own car.
In this they confirm that they have confirmed insurance cover and that my ability to act in an emergency is limited due to the lack of duals. That they agree I accept no responsibility for any damage caused or offences committed during the course of their lesson.

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