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#26 07-07-12 18:53:44

daz6215
Verified Member
Registered: 07-06-08
Posts: 449

Re: Very skilled police driving.

trunkmonkey wrote:

Now factor in overtaking on a two way road at 100mph.
Then do it with oncoming traffic
Then do it in the rain
Then do it at night.

So far so good.

Then teach it to a novice.

Are you at that stage now?

If so good luck, it's the best decision you've ever made.

I would like to think so, I teach it too!  tongue

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07-07-12 18:53:44

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Re: Very skilled police driving.



#27 07-07-12 19:26:49

trunkmonkey
Member
Registered: 05-03-09
Posts: 747

Re: Very skilled police driving.

I'm not sure what your expectations were, but unless you yourself have been trained by the police to a level that you can deliver training at a Standard level you can't do it

ADI's are employed by the police.They are civilian driving instructors.All have passed the 3 week standard course and 4 week instructor course. Some may passed a Response course and be trained to deliver it.

It is a closed shop but quite often there are adverts for civilian driving instructors. More may be going that way as it is cheaper and puts a PC back on the front line.

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#28 11-07-12 15:57:12

ratty
Member
Registered: 05-02-11
Posts: 466

Re: Very skilled police driving.

I have never heard of Herts using 'ADIs' to instruct. They certainly have employed civilian instructors at their driving school in the past and probably still do. Lots of forces do this, but not many are employed to teach on the advanced courses.

I do not mean this  next comment to reflect directly on the use of civilian instructors, but I was also told some time ago that it was generally accepted that Herts police's standard of driver training was about the lowest in the UK. I do not know if this is / was a fact or not but I do know that they had some strange ways of doing things. The general standard of training in the force was not high and how many forces have you heard of where an officer who did not hold a driving license was seconded long term to the roads policing dept?

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#29 11-07-12 17:54:18

sipin
Verified Member
Registered: 26-03-06
Posts: 232

Re: Very skilled police driving.

There are numberious Police Forces that use ADI's to teach response to advanced level


Even when things go wrong you can learn from them

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#30 11-07-12 20:03:44

ratty
Member
Registered: 05-02-11
Posts: 466

Re: Very skilled police driving.

Wessex wrote:
ratty wrote:

I have never heard of Herts using 'ADIs' to instruct.


I've just told you they do.  If you don't believe me then ring up their training Dept. and ask to speak to the guys themselves.

As for standards, well I have only had the experience of Herts. Police.  Hearsay is a very poor way of communication.  Where are your facts?  How long did the none licence holder remain in the job and what was he seconded to do?  Was he eventually sacked or promoted?

What exactly do you mean using ADIs? As I have said lots of forces use civilian driving instructors who work for the force and I don't doubt that Herts still do. I presume you don't mean that Herts Plod just rings up local ADIs and asks if they are available to run a course next week? You say ring them up and speak to them, so I presume they work at the force driving school then? Doesn't that just make then civilian driving instructors who work for Herts police? More and more police officers who are employed as driving instructors are now qualified ADIs so saying that Herts uses ADIs is not really explaining what you mean.

As you say, hearsay is a poor way of communication. Prior to me working for Herts police I had been told by some of the officers (hearsay?) that standards were very good. After I was seconded to Herts I found out first hand that standards were not so good. I had been lucky in that I think I had been trained up to a standard, not up to a cost. Herts definitely trained up to a cost, and they did not have much money so the cost was low. I visited the driving school on numerous occasions to speak to the staff there and to have my qualifications checked and recorded. Later I was responsible for assigning students to driving courses at the driving school so I know quite a bit about Herts police's training standards first hand.

I can't remember the exact dates but I'm sure that he started on their RPU when the Welwyn Garden City office opened in 2002 ish. Herts was the only force I had ever heard of which struggled to get officers to apply to join their RPU. They were short staffed so this male officer was posted to the unit long term. I cannot remember his name, I remember that there was an article about it in a national news paper at the time with his photo in. He had to get a lift to work as he could not drive and was posted as a permanent passenger, or ballast as he used to be called. I left, I think about two years after he started and I'm sure that he was still there then. Can you imagine standing up in court, supposedly as an expert witness, and declaring that he did not have a driving license or any experience driving but was there to give perhaps opinion evidence against a qualified driver!

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#31 11-07-12 20:05:53

ratty
Member
Registered: 05-02-11
Posts: 466

Re: Very skilled police driving.

sipin wrote:

There are numberious Police Forces that use ADI's to teach response to advanced level

Numerous forces use civilian instructors to teach response courses, but I don't think many use them to teach advanced courses unless they are retired officers who used to be instructors prior to retirement.

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#32 11-07-12 20:25:01

daveh
Banned
Registered: 23-06-12
Posts: 102

Re: Very skilled police driving.

Not sure if it is coincidence or not but following this thread makes me think the police or government could be dropping their standards. If the police are employing or using ADIs to teach response driving then maybe that is the reason for more and more accidents involving police chases.

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#33 11-07-12 21:47:50

trunkmonkey
Member
Registered: 05-03-09
Posts: 747

Re: Very skilled police driving.

daveh wrote:

Not sure if it is coincidence or not but following this thread makes me think the police or government could be dropping their standards. If the police are employing or using ADIs to teach response driving then maybe that is the reason for more and more accidents involving police chases.

Are there more accidents?
I'm not sure, which is why I ask. Certainly when there are financial restraints, training is the first to suffer. However where chases are concerned involving trained officers, they have a licence and it's only valid for 2 years. If it expires, they can't pursue - so pursuit training should never be compromised.
Something else will give - Advanced refreshers, basic Standard or 4x4 can all be shelved. Caught between a rock and a hard place.
Don't train and hope there's not a fatal. IPCC as ever will be waiting to pounce .

My old force have (and still) used civilian driving instructors for over 40 years some are ADI's but it is not a pre-requisite. Granted they are mainly used on Standard and Intermediate courses but still train response for lower powered cars. They are good at their job and their results were no worse than police officer counterparts.
TPAC/Pursuit and VIP /Escort training along with Advanced is still largely the domain of a PC.

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#34 12-07-12 06:25:36

ratty
Member
Registered: 05-02-11
Posts: 466

Re: Very skilled police driving.

Wessex wrote:

Look Ratty, if you were involved with Herts Police you would know that the training school is run by ADIs.


I have tried to forget everything about Herts police actually, they were so poor, so I do not know what is happening there now.

When I was there over a period starting about twelve years ago the driving school was 'run' by the chief instructor who was a sergeant. It was quite a small school and I think there were only about four or five instructors there in total. Most were Pcs there and I can only remember one civi instructor but I fully accept that there could have been another one. He was a civilian who was employed as an instructor, most forces have these. I'm sure that he was used to instruct on advanced courses which was the first time I had heard of this being done. At the time, I don't think anyone who worked at the school was qualified as an ADI, but again I may be wrong about this. At one point I worked with two ex instructors, both Pcs, and they were very interested in the tests I was then taking to qualify as an ADI because they had never had to do it. My regional RoSPA examiner was also an ex head of the Herts driving school but I'm sure that he had been an Inspector at the time.

Unless I am totally failing to understand what you are saying here, the driving school was not 'run by ADIs' then. It was run by a police sergeant who had a number of Pcs as instructors and at least one civi instructor. As I have said, most forces use civi instructors at their driving schools and Herts was no different. Herts was different in my all be it limited experience, in that they used the civi instructor, who had never been a police officer, to instruct on their advanced course. It would not surprise me at all if when one or more of the police officer instructors retired they were then taken on as civi instructors but it would really surprise me if the chief instructor was no a police officer.

As I have said, and please correct me if I have misunderstood, to say that ADIs run the school certainly was not the case up to about 2006 and I would be surprised if it is the case now. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the majority of instructors are now civilians as opposed to being police officers and I'm sure that some of them will have passed their ADI qualifications, but I think to say that 'the school is run by ADIs' is at best misleading.

Last edited by ratty (12-07-12 06:34:32)

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#35 15-07-12 20:14:52

ratty
Member
Registered: 05-02-11
Posts: 466

Re: Very skilled police driving.

Any reply to this Wessex?

It would be interesting to hear if the above is what you meant.

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#36 29-07-12 18:03:22

ratty
Member
Registered: 05-02-11
Posts: 466

Re: Very skilled police driving.

Have you managed to get in touch with them yet?

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