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#1 14-07-12 11:42:29

Promanade
Guest

Only 20 hours needed???

If a committed trainee instructor had a very comprehensive knowledge of all subjects, was taught how to identify and analyse faults, was taught to understand lesson structure and the levels of instruction. Would it be possible for that trainee to then go onto pass the part 3 test without ever seeing a PST sheet and pass within 20hours of instructional training without the need for a pink licence and the official 40hours needed for a pink licence?

14-07-12 11:42:29

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Re: Only 20 hours needed???




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#2 14-07-12 12:11:57

Driver99
Member
Registered: 21-01-11
Posts: 264

Re: Only 20 hours needed???

Promanade wrote:

If a committed trainee instructor had a very comprehensive knowledge of all subjects, was taught how to identify and analyse faults, was taught to understand lesson structure and the levels of instruction. Would it be possible for that trainee to then go onto pass the part 3 test without ever seeing a PST sheet and pass within 20hours of instructional training without the need for a pink licence and the official 40hours needed for a pink licence?

Are you saying don't look at the PSTs at all during training and just go for test?
It would be nice to think it's possible, but I've had 20 hours and feel no where near test ready, and I've studied the PSTs for what the Examiner should act up on.
(Oh, and people think I'm committed, or should be... (Wessex probably!  tongue ))

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#3 14-07-12 12:58:14

Terrier
Banned
From: Greater Manchester
Registered: 15-05-11
Posts: 657

Re: Only 20 hours needed???

I think it would be possible with the right person but they would need to be very committed and articulate. As far as PST's are concerned they are nothing more than a working tool for the examiner and if the training has been correct it's not essential to be familiar with them.

This sounds like John Farlam techniques for training which involves loads of home study, the problem is, many PDI's will not put the study time in and only think about it when they get in the car with the trainer.

Last edited by Terrier (14-07-12 13:01:47)


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#4 14-07-12 13:50:26

Daveyboy
Verified Member
From: Nr Alford, Lincolnshire
Registered: 25-01-09
Posts: 377

Re: Only 20 hours needed???

I didn't know what a PSTwas until several years after passing my ADI exams and we did part 2 & 3 in one test.

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#5 14-07-12 15:01:31

MAZ
Verified Member
From: N/Wales, Cheshire
Registered: 13-06-06
Posts: 838

Re: Only 20 hours needed???

Promanade wrote:

If a committed trainee instructor had a very comprehensive knowledge of all subjects, was taught how to identify and analyse faults, was taught to understand lesson structure and the levels of instruction. Would it be possible for that trainee to then go onto pass the part 3 test without ever seeing a PST sheet and pass within 20hours of instructional training without the need for a pink licence and the official 40hours needed for a pink licence?

If a trainee has been "taught how to identify and analyse faults" and "was taught to understand lesson structure and the levels of instruction", then perhaps he/she has had many hours training already so this would be 20 in addition to that already received, would it not???

I did not know about PST's when I took my training, but examiners or SE's where proper seasoned examiners in those days, not like today’s "box tickers", so I would fear any trainee of mine going into Pt 3 without a good knowledge of what the examiner is marking for.

It should not be this way, but unfortunately it is!!!

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#6 14-07-12 15:57:12

ratty
Member
Registered: 05-02-11
Posts: 466

Re: Only 20 hours needed???

Promanade wrote:

If a committed trainee instructor had a very comprehensive knowledge of all subjects, was taught how to identify and analyse faults, was taught to understand lesson structure and the levels of instruction. Would it be possible for that trainee to then go onto pass the part 3 test without ever seeing a PST sheet and pass within 20hours of instructional training without the need for a pink licence and the official 40hours needed for a pink licence?

Yes it is, I did it.

When I was preparing for my pt3 I went out with a friend who was an ADI three times for about an hour each and he explained what was expected on the part 3 tests. I would add that I then failed my pt3 a couple of times because I did no other preparation, but I then took out a neighbour's daughter and taught her to drive, following this practice for both of us she passed and I passed.

My preparation for pt1 was to read books and I just turned up and passed my pt2, although I had been interested in driving and had previously received a lot of driver training in different classes of vehicle.

I am not suggesting that this is the best way to qualify and I would add that it was never my intention to teach 'learners' but your question asks about passing pt3. I had actually passed my fleet qualifying exams before I passed my pt3 so joined both registers on the same day.

As I have said above, I am not saying that this is the best way to do things, but it really rattles my cage when I hear ADI trainers telling potential ADIs that they have to get training for all three parts of the ADI qualifications. You don't HAVE to pay for lots of training, I know because I didn't.

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#7 15-07-12 16:14:12

Promanade
Guest

Re: Only 20 hours needed???

MAZ wrote:

If a trainee has been "taught how to identify and analyse faults" and "was taught to understand lesson structure and the levels of instruction", then perhaps he/she has had many hours training already so this would be 20 in addition to that already received, would it not???
!

Maz that is not what i meant (sorry for any confusion), teaching how to identify faults and analyse them along with lesson structure and levels of instruction would be taught during the 20 hours, they would NOT have already been taught it.

Just to reiterate, a trainee has passed part1 and 2, he/she is very commited and comes to the trainer with a comprehensive subject knowledge and NO previous instructional teaching could this trainee be taught all the skills required to pass a part 3 within 20 hours.

Last edited by Promanade (15-07-12 16:15:42)


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#8 15-07-12 16:24:31

fishie
Banned
From: leeds
Registered: 09-08-11
Posts: 324
Website

Re: Only 20 hours needed???

NO


www.fishersdrivingschool.co.uk
Remember only dead fish's go with the flow
Grade 6 by fluke this and last time
Some cardigan in the wardrobe non ordit

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#9 15-07-12 20:20:44

MAZ
Verified Member
From: N/Wales, Cheshire
Registered: 13-06-06
Posts: 838

Re: Only 20 hours needed???

There will occasionally come along someone with an exceptional ability to pick this up quickly, particularly if they have had a good pt2 trainer and they have picked up and learned how it’s done. Perhaps the previous experiences this person has had in life will help. Just like the occasional “L” student who will pick up driving very quickly “a natural” maybe.

But this would be the exception to the rule, as we already know that 40 hours is just not enough for the majority judging by the very low pass rates on pt3.

Maz.

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#10 15-07-12 20:23:35

ratty
Member
Registered: 05-02-11
Posts: 466

Re: Only 20 hours needed???

Promanade wrote:

If a committed trainee instructor had a very comprehensive knowledge of all subjects, was taught how to identify and analyse faults, was taught to understand lesson structure and the levels of instruction. Would it be possible for that trainee to then go onto pass the part 3 test without ever seeing a PST sheet and pass within 20hours of instructional training without the need for a pink licence and the official 40hours needed for a pink licence?

Why do you ask?

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#11 16-07-12 14:48:18

Dave Robinson
Member
From: Wirral
Registered: 11-06-12
Posts: 8
Website

Re: Only 20 hours needed???

This is achievable and my own son can back that up.In a one year period he took all the tests and passed first time then took his check test and achieved a grade 5 then he decided he didnt like driving tuition and packed in and now lives a life of luxury in Texas.I only gave him 20 hours maximum (FOC) the rest he did himself.His ADI badge is still running.

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#12 16-07-12 14:58:47

kaf
Verified Member
From: Wiltshire
Registered: 05-08-07
Posts: 3,328
Website

Re: Only 20 hours needed???

Little is impossible.

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#13 16-07-12 16:04:56

Fabian
Member
Registered: 25-12-10
Posts: 17

Re: Only 20 hours needed???

I passed PT3 with 17hrs training and just the Instructors Handbook for company.

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#14 16-07-12 22:24:46

MAZ
Verified Member
From: N/Wales, Cheshire
Registered: 13-06-06
Posts: 838

Re: Only 20 hours needed???

Dave Robinson wrote:

This is achievable and my own son can back that up.In a one year period he took all the tests and passed first time then took his check test and achieved a grade 5 then he decided he didnt like driving tuition and packed in and now lives a life of luxury in Texas.I only gave him 20 hours maximum (FOC) the rest he did himself.His ADI badge is still running.


Ahh, doesn't count Dave, it was already in his blood. lol lol


Maz.

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#15 17-07-12 07:34:59

Tiamaria
Member
From: Southampton
Registered: 14-02-12
Posts: 30
Website

Re: Only 20 hours needed???

as a newly qualified ADI i thought i would just add my expereince here.  The hours i received from my trainer were obviuolsy beneficial, but as someone else has said on here, its the fact of being commited to do all the studying that goes with it.  when i was training for my part 3,  i spent numerous hours doing this, reading the books,  reading the posts on websites, writting out possible faults etc etc, so really i would say that if people are doing that as well as their hours in car training there is no reason why they wouldnt pass.  You do suddenly get a "bing" moment when it all falls into place.  Great when that happens!   and thats when the time training in the car is at its best, when you understand what it is you should actually be doing!

Last edited by Tiamaria (17-07-12 07:36:28)


Part 1 04/11/11 99/63 big_smile
part 2 12/12/11 first time 4 minors smile
part 3 04/07/12 first time 4/4. big_smile
Check test grade 4

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#16 21-07-12 12:49:54

Gracie Jits
Member
Registered: 19-04-12
Posts: 25

Re: Only 20 hours needed???

Do you mean 20 hours with a trainer?

I did lots of buddying with other PDI's that my trainer put me in touch with.  I also watched lots of videos on you tube etc.  Would those hours count, or just the ones with a trainer?

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#17 21-07-12 14:41:08

Promanade
Guest

Re: Only 20 hours needed???

Tiamaria said “You do suddenly get a "bing" moment when it all falls into place. Great when that happens! and thats when the time training in the car is at its best, when you understand what it is you should actually be doing!”
The important part of your statement is “UNDERSTAND what it is you should actually be doing” if the trainer understands what is required then surely the trainer can pass on the understanding to the trainee, the examiner is only assessing the trainees understanding of instruction ability and all that goes with it, the examiner is not looking to see if the trainee can tick all the boxes.
Tiamaria, could i ask if you were taught the PSTs or were you taught how to instruct?

Gracie Jits asked “Do you mean 20 hours with a trainer?”
Yes Gracie i do mean 20 hours with a trainer, in car one to one training.

Last edited by Promanade (21-07-12 14:42:09)


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#18 21-07-12 19:31:50

ratty
Member
Registered: 05-02-11
Posts: 466

Re: Only 20 hours needed???

ratty wrote:
Promanade wrote:

If a committed trainee instructor had a very comprehensive knowledge of all subjects, was taught how to identify and analyse faults, was taught to understand lesson structure and the levels of instruction. Would it be possible for that trainee to then go onto pass the part 3 test without ever seeing a PST sheet and pass within 20hours of instructional training without the need for a pink licence and the official 40hours needed for a pink licence?

Why do you ask?


Once again, why do you ask?

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#19 21-07-12 22:38:54

Promanade
Guest

Re: Only 20 hours needed???

Just curious to see if others agree that it IS possible, thats all and thats why i ask smile


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#20 22-07-12 06:59:06

Newrose
Member
From: burnley
Registered: 25-01-12
Posts: 44
Website

Re: Only 20 hours needed???

If a committed trainee instructor had a very comprehensive knowledge of all subjects, was taught how to identify and analyse faults, was taught to understand lesson structure and the levels of instruction. Would it be possible for that trainee to then go onto pass the part 3 test without ever seeing a PST sheet and pass within 20hours of instructional training without the need for a pink licence and the official 40hours needed for a pink licence?

I think it is possible for some PDI's to successfully pass their part 3, BUT the pass rate would be extremely low.

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#21 22-07-12 15:28:33

ratty
Member
Registered: 05-02-11
Posts: 466

Re: Only 20 hours needed???

Newrose wrote:

If a committed trainee instructor had a very comprehensive knowledge of all subjects, was taught how to identify and analyse faults, was taught to understand lesson structure and the levels of instruction. Would it be possible for that trainee to then go onto pass the part 3 test without ever seeing a PST sheet and pass within 20hours of instructional training without the need for a pink licence and the official 40hours needed for a pink licence?

I think it is possible for some PDI's to successfully pass their part 3, BUT the pass rate would be extremely low.
http://www.afzal-driving-lessons.co.uk/


I thought it was extremely low already.

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#22 22-07-12 15:29:41

ratty
Member
Registered: 05-02-11
Posts: 466

Re: Only 20 hours needed???

Promanade wrote:

Just curious to see if others agree that it IS possible, thats all and thats why i ask smile

I think it would be silly to argue that it is NOT possible.

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#23 22-07-12 17:28:03

Promanade
Guest

Re: Only 20 hours needed???

I agree with you Ratty, but try telling that to those trainers and schools who charge upwards of £3000/ £4000 for training claiming 40/50 hours are needed at part 3. It is a complete RIP OFF mad and has been for years.


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#24 22-07-12 20:12:33

ratty
Member
Registered: 05-02-11
Posts: 466

Re: Only 20 hours needed???

Promanade wrote:

I agree with you Ratty, but try telling that to those trainers and schools who charge upwards of £3000/ £4000 for training claiming 40/50 hours are needed at part 3. It is a complete RIP OFF mad and has been for years.

I know I see this from a different point of view because I didn't use an ADI trainer, but I think there are so many, (too many perhaps?) ADIs now and competition is so cut throat, that lots of people now see the easy money being made in training more instructors. It is in their benefit that potential ADIs are talked into spending thousands of pounds to do POSSIBLY unnecessary training to do a job they will probably not be able to make a decent living doing! The problem is that while people will pay, others will charge.

Just my point of view.

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