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#1 04-06-05 14:53:24

dashdriving.com
Member
From: Yorkshire, Lincolnshire and Hu
Registered: 29-11-04
Posts: 148
Website

Just a note on use of the duals . . .

Hi all,

I've had a couple of trainee's out this week on part 3 'recovery' work, and it struck me that they had both developed the same little habit . . .

They both became completely relaxed and at ease in the 'instructor' role, so much so that they both stretched out their legs into very comfortable positions. No problem . . . but is there?

I noticed that they both placed their feet underneath the dual control pedals with legs outstretched, so that any attempt to use the pedals would have a slight delay whilst they got their bearings. They had to move their legs back into position, lift their feet, then press down again on the brake pedal.

Not a great deal of extra movement, and perhaps only a delay of less than half a second to an experienced instructor.

But is your sense of exactly what is happening ahead so good that you can afford that delay?

Is the short delay the important thing in this? or could the effect you have on your learner have even greater importance?

What I mean is this . . . you sit with legs outstretched under the pedals, your learner drives into busy traffic but everything is fine and you are both happy. Then it happens . . . a car pulls out, a kid runs out, whatever . . . your learner starts to panic . . . you have to pull your feet back suddenly to go for the pedals . . . your learner sees this and reacts by panicking more . . . oh dear.

By pulling your legs back suddenly you are sending a crystal clear, instant message to your learner that all is not well with the world.

How much better to leave your right foot, at least, within very easy reach of the dual brake, so that your learner gets completely used to it being there and you can cover the brake without your learner even noticing the movement?

In fact, if your learner reacts well, you may not even have to use the brake at all, and your learner may not have any idea of your preparation to use it.

A principle of communication between human beings is that we . . . ‘cannot not communicate’

What this tells us is that every sigh, every groan, every deep breath, every smile, every gesture, every sudden movement to go for the brake . . . they all communicate our inner feelings to our learners.

Your learners will react to anything you do. Sudden movements for the brake won’t inspire them with confidence.

On part 3 the SE will be well aware of the position of your feet. He or she may just use it to test you. Part 3 is enjoyable (yes it is, believe it or not!) and you should ensure that your time with the ‘learner’ is as relaxed as you can, but an old saying springs to mind . . .”walk softly and carry a big stick . . .”

Your ‘big stick’ on part 3 is being prepared for anything at any time. Look well ahead, anticipate the road and what your learner may do, and be prepared to be on the brake whenever necessary.

Never forget that we teach our learners to use MSM for hazards, so why not use the mirror yourself before you even move for the brake? Trainees not using the interior mirror before using the brake is quite common. If I notice it as a trainer, I’m certain that the SE’s will.

Why not develop the habit of having a quick glance in the mirror as you are giving route directions to your learner or even just before? That way, you will have done your own checks and can concentrate on making sure that your learner does theirs.

Always expect the unexpected and be prepared to use the dual brake with hardly any movement accompanied by a big smile and relaxed reassurance.

In a bit of a panic scenario the SE will not crash your car, although he or she may crash your hopes of qualifying.

In the real world of teaching learners there is no such guarantee. There are no guarantees at all.

Use of the duals is quite an involved topic that is often not covered, or covered poorly, in ADI training. Try to get plenty of practice with your trainer.

Hope some trainees may find this valuable . . .

regards,


Dave Hartley
ADI Trainer for Dash driving

www.dashdriving.com

you never do anything wrong,
you just find new ways of not doing it right.

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04-06-05 14:53:24

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Re: Just a note on use of the duals . . .



#2 04-06-05 15:59:14

luchell
Guest

Re: Just a note on use of the duals . . .

i found that extremely valuable. during our 40 hrs we covered the duals for one hour. we were told to sit with our legs comfortable just not crossed :shock:  so last week i ended up seeking guidance. twice when i should have used the dual brake i just couldnt get there in time so we were too commited and had to go or sit in the middle of the road with me on the brake.

after seeking some guidance on here i then realised i should cover the brake on approach to junctions and any other situation that could develop. rest assured this week my foot has spent most of the time over the pedal.what a difference ive dualled twice this week and believe me there would have been a large accident if i hadnt. funny how my trainer didnt mention to do any of this eh

my pupils for sure noticed the look of panic as i tried to move my feet quickly to the duals last week. does anyone notice now? nope lol


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#3 04-06-05 18:38:54

bzcee
Member
From: Co. Durham
Registered: 02-05-05
Posts: 162

Re: Just a note on use of the duals . . .

Dash......looking at it another way, what if you are sitting comfy, feet under pedals as you say, the learner is driving ok...then an incident happens..you need to react...pupil reacts quicker and correctly..your feet get stuck under the pedals when the pupil is pressing the brake.......OUCH!!!!!!!!!

that could happen couldnt it?

Has it?  lol  lol
does it hurt


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#4 04-06-05 18:57:19

dashdriving.com
Member
From: Yorkshire, Lincolnshire and Hu
Registered: 29-11-04
Posts: 148
Website

Re: Just a note on use of the duals . . .

Ha!

Yes it could, depending on the make of pedals that you have.

I have to be honest, I hadn't even thought of that one! My duals don't move on the instructors side when the learner presses the pedal, however my friend John's do. "Ouch" could be a very good description. 

Good point bzcee

regards,


Dave Hartley
ADI Trainer for Dash driving

www.dashdriving.com

you never do anything wrong,
you just find new ways of not doing it right.

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#5 04-06-05 19:19:18

luchell
Guest

Re: Just a note on use of the duals . . .

my duals dont move either. thank god!!

#6 06-06-05 10:59:16

dashdriving.com
Member
From: Yorkshire, Lincolnshire and Hu
Registered: 29-11-04
Posts: 148
Website

Re: Just a note on use of the duals . . .

I think John is off to get his changed.

It would drive me mad if the pedals on the passenger side went up and down as the driver pressed the brake.

Happy dualling!

DH


Dave Hartley
ADI Trainer for Dash driving

www.dashdriving.com

you never do anything wrong,
you just find new ways of not doing it right.

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#7 18-06-12 18:25:39

Barry500
Member
From: Ipswich, Kesgrave, Woodbridge.
Registered: 27-11-10
Posts: 491
Website

Re: Just a note on use of the duals . . .

I like it that my duals DO move so when I teach in the dark (Winter) then I can feel them as well as feel the car.

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#8 18-06-12 19:22:21

Driver99
Member
Registered: 21-01-11
Posts: 264

Re: Just a note on use of the duals . . .

Holy thread revival Batman!

But, if you take Part 3 in a normal non-dualled car, will the Examiner act up or behave, expecting maybe a bit of mild steering wheel intervention (assuming proactive control is lost)?

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#9 18-06-12 19:36:42

Terrier
Banned
From: Greater Manchester
Registered: 15-05-11
Posts: 657

Re: Just a note on use of the duals . . .

luchell

I wouldn't recommend sitting with your feet over the duals, this gives the wrong message to a pupil who can become dependent on the duals instead of thinking for themselves and taking responsibility, it can also give the pupil feelings of inadequacy by making them think you don't trust them.

The other problem with hovering over the duals is on part 3, don't think the examiner won't notice this, they will, and could take this further by forcing you to use them where normal early instruction would have been appropriate. I know examiners who see this when being taught a TIR and simply take both feet off the pedals, the natural instinct from the PDI is to take control with the duals but say nothing to the pupil about using them, so it's a recipe for problems.

The best technique is to give early positive instruction and keep your feet just to to the side of the dual pedals in case you have to use them. However, if you feel that there could be imminent danger of course cover the duals or if the pupil is showing signs of panic such as emerging at a busy junction it may be necessary to cover.

Finally, don't forget to tell the pupil if you have used the duals and explain why and what the pupil could have done to avoid this. Remember that from an instruction point of view, any control can be considered as a dual control, for example; steering, indicators, gear lever, parking brake, even things such as demisters and sun visor comes into this and an examiner on part 3 can mark you down on use of dual controls if you fail to tell them what you've done and why.


ADI Development Greater Manchester & Cheshire Grade 6 ORDIT Approved
Cardington Grade A  RoSPA Gold
DSA External Trainer Certificate for Instructor Training

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#10 18-06-12 19:46:15

martin Williams
Verified Member
Registered: 26-06-09
Posts: 1,144

Re: Just a note on use of the duals . . .

Ditto to Terrier's post.

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#11 18-06-12 19:52:04

VandADI
Administrator
From: Coulsdon, Surrey
Registered: 29-02-04
Posts: 7,592

Re: Just a note on use of the duals . . .

I think Luchell has probably found this out, after all this was posted 7 years ago!

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