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#26 03-04-12 19:14:09

ratty
Member
Registered: 05-02-11
Posts: 466

Re: Thought I had seen it all until today.

And I'm sure you do it very well.

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03-04-12 19:14:09

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Re: Thought I had seen it all until today.




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#27 03-04-12 20:27:50

trunkmonkey
Member
Registered: 05-03-09
Posts: 747

Re: Thought I had seen it all until today.

miketdt wrote:

Today for the 1st time I saw something on the road that I have never seen before . Whilst giving a briefing at the start of my 1st lesson of the day, I saw 40 plus children under the age of 7 leave the Exmouth bound train at Topsham and get loaded into a cattle trailer along with teachers and parents and get transported a mile down the road to a farm for an educational day out at a farm. Would be interested to hear your comments.

My initial thoughts were:

"I'd like to see the motor insurance for this little enterprise"

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#28 04-04-12 21:20:08

miketdt
Member
Registered: 29-03-12
Posts: 7

Re: Thought I had seen it all until today.

Thankyou Roadmaster for the very useful link, will update you all as things develop.

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#29 05-04-12 08:07:55

trunkmonkey
Member
Registered: 05-03-09
Posts: 747

Re: Thought I had seen it all until today.

miketdt,
What was pulling the trailer?

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#30 05-04-12 09:02:17

Driver99
Member
Registered: 21-01-11
Posts: 264

Re: Thought I had seen it all until today.

Wessex wrote:
From H&SE Publication wrote:

This information sheet is aimed at anyone who uses a trailer to move people around on a farm and sets out the features, related to the circumstances of use, a trailer should have if it is used for carrying passengers.
It only considers on-farm use (ie away from the public highway). Travelling on the public highway with passengers on a trailer may be an offence under road traffic legislation. If you intend doing this you should consult the police to establish any further precautions you should take. Remember that parts of the road traffic legislation apply to any area to which the public have access (eg farm driveways with a public footpath).

]

I posted something similar in post #4.  I saw the HSE pdf, but as the OP is about driving on the road, I didn't think it pertinent.

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#31 05-04-12 20:01:55

miketdt
Member
Registered: 29-03-12
Posts: 7

Re: Thought I had seen it all until today.

Hi Trunkmonkey, a P reg tractor.

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#32 05-04-12 20:39:33

trunkmonkey
Member
Registered: 05-03-09
Posts: 747

Re: Thought I had seen it all until today.

miketdt wrote:

Hi Trunkmonkey, a P reg tractor.

That makes it more interesting.

How about the trailer?

Was it as Elephant described.  a  trailer fitted with outfacing seats.?
Or as you said , a cattle trailer?

PM

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#33 06-04-12 08:32:41

Driver99
Member
Registered: 21-01-11
Posts: 264

Re: Thought I had seen it all until today.

Wessex wrote:

I think it is pertinent because the OP said it was towed by a tractor.  Against H&SE recommendations unless the police had been contacted and advice sought.

He only said it was a tractor yesterday!


miketdt wrote:

.... will update you all as things develop.

So it sounds like miketdt is actively investigating this, so let's wait to hear the outcome when all the facts have been considered.

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#34 16-04-12 13:42:52

KevB
Verified Member
From: Amesbury
Registered: 06-06-08
Posts: 1,725
Website

Re: Thought I had seen it all until today.

It's quite possible that the trailer had bench seating or seating rails.  If so, provided the trailer had appropriate sides and tailboard, the seating arrangement would be adequate for off road transport of children.

On the face of it, it wouldn't comply with RTA or seatbelt regs, for on road transportation.

If that's the case, the driver could be in for a bit of a hefty penalty. 40 x FPN for underaged passengers without seatbelt, plus carrying of passengers without appropriate seating.
Cheaper to elect to go to court, and have magistrates impose a fine. hmm

However, I'd be surprised if the school had not carried out all the relvent checks, before permitting such a trip.

In certain circumstances, such carriage of persons IS PERMITTED on the public highway.
One example that most will recognise, is on floats or procession vehicles.

KevB

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#35 16-04-12 14:35:03

ratty
Member
Registered: 05-02-11
Posts: 466

Re: Thought I had seen it all until today.

KevB wrote:

It's quite possible that the trailer had bench seating or seating rails.  If so, provided the trailer had appropriate sides and tailboard, the seating arrangement would be adequate for off road transport of children.

On the face of it, it wouldn't comply with RTA or seatbelt regs, for on road transportation.

If that's the case, the driver could be in for a bit of a hefty penalty. 40 x FPN for underaged passengers without seatbelt, plus carrying of passengers without appropriate seating.
Cheaper to elect to go to court, and have magistrates impose a fine. hmm

However, I'd be surprised if the school had not carried out all the relvent checks, before permitting such a trip.

In certain circumstances, such carriage of persons IS PERMITTED on the public highway.
One example that most will recognise, is on floats or procession vehicles.

KevB

Nice idea, but only 1 ticket can be issued to 1 person at 1 time so he could not be issued with more than one ticket.

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#36 16-04-12 20:03:19

trunkmonkey
Member
Registered: 05-03-09
Posts: 747

Re: Thought I had seen it all until today.

ratty wrote:
KevB wrote:

It's quite possible that the trailer had bench seating or seating rails.  If so, provided the trailer had appropriate sides and tailboard, the seating arrangement would be adequate for off road transport of children.

On the face of it, it wouldn't comply with RTA or seatbelt regs, for on road transportation.

If that's the case, the driver could be in for a bit of a hefty penalty. 40 x FPN for underaged passengers without seatbelt, plus carrying of passengers without appropriate seating.
Cheaper to elect to go to court, and have magistrates impose a fine. hmm

However, I'd be surprised if the school had not carried out all the relvent checks, before permitting such a trip.

In certain circumstances, such carriage of persons IS PERMITTED on the public highway.
One example that most will recognise, is on floats or procession vehicles.

KevB

Nice idea, but only 1 ticket can be issued to 1 person at 1 time so he could not be issued with more than one ticket.

I'd opt for S40A RTA 1988
Using vehicle in dangerous condition etc.
A person is guilty of an offence if he uses, or causes or permits another to use, a motor vehicle or trailer on a road when—
(a)the condition of the motor vehicle or trailer, or of its accessories or equipment, or
(b)the purpose for which it is used, or
(c)the number of passengers carried by it, or the manner in which they are carried, or
(d)the weight, position or distribution of its load, or the manner in which it is secured,
is such that the use of the motor vehicle or trailer involves a danger of injury to any person.

The question of 'danger' is subjective.  Do you wait for a trailer wheel to drop into the ditch and catapult 40 kids from one side of the trailer to the other before deciding it is dangerous.

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#37 17-04-12 06:20:41

ratty
Member
Registered: 05-02-11
Posts: 466

Re: Thought I had seen it all until today.

Have we established what was actually happening yet?

This started out as kids and adults being transported on a 'Cattle trailer' but now we are talking about seats etc. I had no idea that Cattle trailers, trailers used to transport cattle, were so luxurious. I always assumed that cattle preferred to stand!

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#38 17-04-12 09:39:45

Driver99
Member
Registered: 21-01-11
Posts: 264

Re: Thought I had seen it all until today.

ratty wrote:

Have we established what was actually happening yet?

This started out as kids and adults being transported on a 'Cattle trailer' but now we are talking about seats etc. I had no idea that Cattle trailers, trailers used to transport cattle, were so luxurious. I always assumed that cattle preferred to stand!

miketdt on 4th April wrote:

.... will update you all as things develop.

Come on mikedt!  We're all fascinated by this.   smile

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#39 18-04-12 13:40:46

jimmywest73
Member
Registered: 18-04-12
Posts: 1
Website

Re: Thought I had seen it all until today.

The stories I could tell with some of the stuff I have seen tongue

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#40 28-10-12 19:53:27

miketdt
Member
Registered: 29-03-12
Posts: 7

Re: Thought I had seen it all until today.

Sorry all I changed my internet supplier, and loss my password. Out come was local bobby had a word about insurance etc, and he assured me that we wouldn't see it on the road again. Result.

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