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#1 16-04-11 12:02:25

Sammypdi1
Member
From: scotland
Registered: 03-04-11
Posts: 55
Website

Left sweeping reverse procedure help please

I am currently training for my part 2 test with a grade 6 instructor and a grade 6 ordit trainer amongst other relevent qualifications.

He has taught me to do the left sweeping reverse a certain way and i was never taught like this method when i was a learner and wondering if this is a good method to use on my test.

THE METHOD

he has told me to drive past the junction i am going to reverse into and pull in and park approx 1 foot from the kerb.

then carry out 5 observation checks middle mirror, left mirror, right, mirror over left shoulder over the right shoulder paying reference to where the kerb is in the mirror approx the middle of it.

then look mainly through the back window taking good alround observations as the car is moving back.

as the car reaches the first curved kerb stone or just before the car swings out stop and check doing 5 observations taking note of where the kerb is in the nearside mirror.

then while moving back taking observations as the kerb starts to disapear from the nearside mirror turn the steering 1 turn to the left as the kerb comes back into the middle of the nearside mirror turn the steering 1turn to the right and so on until round the corner then straight back all the time taking good observations.

This method works great in terms of making sure that i keep reasonable close to the kerb and good observations. But i am worried about getting myself into trouble for using the door mirror too much?

would be interested to here your views on this?





Passed part 1 second attempt 97/100 58
Passed part 2 first attempt 5 minors
passed part 3 first attempt

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16-04-11 12:02:25

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Re: Left sweeping reverse procedure help please



#2 16-04-11 12:47:20

VandADI
Administrator
From: Coulsdon, Surrey
Registered: 29-02-04
Posts: 7,597

Re: Left sweeping reverse procedure help please

Just avoid staring in the nearside mirror and you will be fine.
Quick glances is all that is needed, keeping the car slow will ensure you have enough time to carry out effective obs thereby keeping the manoeuvre accurate.

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#3 09-05-11 00:09:00

looprevil
Verified Member
Registered: 17-03-08
Posts: 424

Re: Left sweeping reverse procedure help please

Conduct this exercise by doing the reverse of what you would do if you were emerging from that junction to turn left.

I find the description you provide here somewhat prescriptive. Do you know why you are doing the things you describe?

regards

Paddy


smile  big_smile  lol  cool

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#4 12-05-11 06:36:31

WillyO
Member
Registered: 12-11-10
Posts: 205

Re: Left sweeping reverse procedure help please

As Van has said the nearside mirror use is fine, but do not stare. I personally would NOT state how much to turn the steering wheel at the point of turn, I would say turn the steering sufficiently so you can still see the kerb for reference. Willy.


A wise man does not need advice, But, only a fool won't take it.   Miam, DIAmond Advanced Test, DIAmond Special Test.

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#5 12-05-11 08:04:22

casper
Member
From: nth wales
Registered: 05-09-09
Posts: 87

Re: Left sweeping reverse procedure help please

Hi sammy, sounds ok, all i would say is, for obs, once moving.
Full obs to start, behind, jus as car will swing into rd, fully over right shoulder, then follow below.
Sweep from right to left, check mirror for kerb ref on way, then behind.
Then start obs again. if you are off line pause briefly, decide what steering you need, start moving again.
as has already been said do not fixate on mirror, i used this method, and now teach it, because it helps keep obs in order, so you know where you have last looked. Just keep them up, and don't linger looking in one direction too long, you could miss something elsewhere.
Hope this helps, and good luck.


pt1 pass 1st time 98% 60 23/9/09
pt2 passed 2nd time 6faults 9/3/10
pt3 passed 3rd time 4/4 jan 2011

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#6 23-05-11 16:59:24

Jakey
Verified Member
From: Penarth
Registered: 16-06-05
Posts: 96

Re: Left sweeping reverse procedure help please

Hi Sammy

I am sure that as an experienced driver you are able to reverse around a corner with no problem, you are already aware of the danger from passing traffic/pedestrians so why try and re-learn where to look.

If you look at a DSA driving test report form you will see that there are two items, Control and Observation.

Control - You must be able to control the car safely while keeping reasonably close to the kerb.
Observation - You must be able to make effective all round observation.

Stay relaxed, make sure you keep your head moving, use mirrors if it will help.

Its the same for any corner, its just control and observation.


Part 1 98%
Part 2 Clean sheet
Part 3 2nd attempt
First check test grade 4
Second check test grade 5

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#7 23-05-11 17:56:52

Hilary Hughes
Verified Member
From: Stockport, Manchester
Registered: 25-06-04
Posts: 1,232
Website

Re: Left sweeping reverse procedure help please

I wouldn't stop to make the mirror check - just press the clutch to slow things  a little at that point, perhaps.

Method sounds complicated - just keep the R.S. window corner on the kerb edge all the way round until you need to straighten up.

Dead easy this one.

Hilary


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#8 26-05-11 23:13:49

johnnyfr
Verified Member
Registered: 06-01-07
Posts: 228
Website

Re: Left sweeping reverse procedure help please

Method sounds complicated - just keep the R.S. window corner on the kerb edge all the way round until you need to straighten up.

Sorry for this Hilary smile but.......

Nice reference point.....for you. What happened to pupil-centred learning?

There's no way on this planet that I would do a left reverse like that - why expect a learner driver to do it with someone else's reference?

If I reverse onto my drive, I look all around for safety AND I glance in my left mirror to ensure I don't end up in my porch. My window corner on the kerb edge would tell me F>>> all about that.


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#9 27-05-11 05:32:32

Hilary Hughes
Verified Member
From: Stockport, Manchester
Registered: 25-06-04
Posts: 1,232
Website

Re: Left sweeping reverse procedure help please

Because that's where the reference point has been for everyone who has ever got in any of my cars. Somethings just seem to be. Why spend hours on the manoeuvres when you can get people doing them quickly, when you can be out on the road teaching them something really useful?

Tell me, how many people are killed doing manoeuvres as opposed to out on the road in normal driving?

To quote your example, I don't use your drive and porch for practice, so I can't comment on the scenario. I should also be careful about accusing people of not using pupil centred learning when you're not there for the whole lesson.

By the way, is your pupil centred learning based on passing the driving test or learning to drive?

Hilary.


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#10 29-05-11 06:48:17

Barry500
Member
From: Ipswich, Kesgrave, Woodbridge.
Registered: 27-11-10
Posts: 491
Website

Re: Left sweeping reverse procedure help please

Now now people we all have our way of learning but it should always be to 'Keep Safe'.

All round obs 6 points blind spot, mirrors, forward to blind spot, how much you turn the steering does depend on the angle of the corner / kerb shape, but the real question should be WHY is Sammy asking this question does he not 'TRUST' the trainer tranning him? After all he is paying for it.

just my thoughts...

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#11 29-05-11 07:43:35

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: Left sweeping reverse procedure help please

If I reverse onto my drive, I look all around for safety AND I glance in my left mirror to ensure I don't end up in my porch.

I could reverse into my drive blindfold and stop before hitting anything, I don't need mirrors.

Do those special ones who are  'coached' not use any reference points? 

Why spend hours on the manoeuvres when you can get people doing them quickly, when you can be out on the road teaching them something really useful?
Tell me, how many people are killed doing manoeuvres as opposed to out on the road in normal driving

DSA takes that view too Hilary.  It dropped one reveres exercise from test so that the candidate could demonstrate more real life driving.

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#12 29-05-11 08:10:07

Hilary Hughes
Verified Member
From: Stockport, Manchester
Registered: 25-06-04
Posts: 1,232
Website

Re: Left sweeping reverse procedure help please

Yes, they did indeed. Not a bad thing.

Hilary.


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#13 19-06-11 10:31:01

bigfala
Verified Member
Registered: 06-01-07
Posts: 298

Re: Left sweeping reverse procedure help please

Reference points for an individual are useful and an aid to safe reversing but it is important to get the client to set up their own reference points relevant to their own driving position and the vehicle they are driving.

At the start I get the vehicle manoeuvred into the correct position for t6he start of a manoeuvre by prompting.  I then ask them to see what lines up with what and tell them to remember that as it is their personal reference point. As we progress the exercise I get them to set reference points at critical stages.

Reference points give clients confidence in the early stages and they learn how to do it in any vehicle they drive thereafter.

The more they use the mirrors the more often they need to update on whats going on around them.

To begin with my cleints are advised to pause whilst they look round and as they become better at it they can keep moving but being careful of not losing track of where they are.

"I could reverse into my drive blindfold and stop before hitting anything, ........."" Except of course the mother and pushchair crossing behind you.

B

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#14 19-06-11 15:22:32

john55
Verified Member
From: Stirling
Registered: 25-05-06
Posts: 227

Re: Left sweeping reverse procedure help please

Now now people we all have our way of learning but it should always be to 'Keep Safe'.

but the real question should be WHY is Sammy asking this question does he not 'TRUST' the trainer tranning him? After all he is paying for it.

just my thoughts...

yes i would agree with this. seems like Sammy he is looking for reassurance here. Perhaps he should be asking his trainer this question. if you are staring at the mirrors then you will be checking them too much, however a glance at your mirrors whilst moving your head back to front/ front to back will suffice. you need to use all round observations. this includes checking your door mirrors


If you can't do it safely don't do it at all

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#15 20-06-11 14:52:47

jonsmithuk
Verified Member
Registered: 27-10-07
Posts: 403

Re: Left sweeping reverse procedure help please

If you have electric mirrors, lower the n/s and when you glance in it you will see exactly your position in relation to the kerb. Oh and take your time ! If you see or hear a vehicle coming , just stop, check everywhere there is potential danger and then carry on. pip pip !

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#16 23-06-11 19:58:26

Graham Hooper
Verified Member
From: Ashford Kent
Registered: 12-02-06
Posts: 223
Website

Re: Left sweeping reverse procedure help please

Oh well I have several methods one involves them just doing it which works well if they have the underlying skills before they do it. The original method reminds me of a method that came from me watching the karate kid. I called it wax on wax off. What ever you put on ie; one turn to the left, steer back one turn to the right when you are getting close to the kerb, move back a little it will be in a straight line, put one turn on to the left (it does not have to be one turn but I will use this to keep it simple) get too close take it off by steering one turn to the right; repeat method until you are reversing in a straight line. Works for gradual corners and all reversing exercises that require you to start parrallel and finish parrellel.
Control, Accuracy, Observation KLP's
Easier to do then to explain.


www.1st-4.org
www.tri-coachingpartnership.co.uk
Part 3 Rescue a speciality, Fleet/Learner check test, Coaching courses, Advanced driving SAFED, ADI-CPD or if just want some advice.

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#17 03-07-11 22:52:35

Sammypdi1
Member
From: scotland
Registered: 03-04-11
Posts: 55
Website

Re: Left sweeping reverse procedure help please

Hi i would just like to clarify to everyone that reads this post that my trainer is awsome and infact i was just worried as i could do the maneuvers without using reference points my trainer has told me he shows me this way so that when i get to part 3 i will know how to do it this way to teach in part 3 there is a solid link between part 2 training and part 3. infact why worry about messing up a maneuver on test when using his method can guarentee that you do it right every time and further more know how to teach it is it any wonder that the pass rates are so low!


Passed part 1 second attempt 97/100 58
Passed part 2 first attempt 5 minors
passed part 3 first attempt

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#18 23-07-11 20:34:42

metalmicky
Verified Member
From: Chesterfield
Registered: 10-01-11
Posts: 802
Website

Re: Left sweeping reverse procedure help please

Why spend hours on the manoeuvres when you can get people doing them quickly, when you can be out on the road teaching them something really useful?

Hilary.


Because there are some instructors who will quite happily exploit their pupils and see them as a cash cow.


Just because I'm a driving instructor, it doesn't make me a dual control freak. 
www.way-ahead-driving.co.uk

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#19 24-07-11 02:51:10

MAZ
Verified Member
From: N/Wales, Cheshire
Registered: 13-06-06
Posts: 838

Re: Left sweeping reverse procedure help please

If there really was a “quick” way, which actually works every time to teach manoeuvres, I am sure we would all be using it.
Certain reference points will not work on every car.

Those that use the rear side window may not work on test if the ADI is short (has the seat forward revealing rear side window) and a tall examiner gets in the car and puts the seat right back.

I think we all (even experienced drivers) use reference points subconsciously without knowing what they are. I have to turn into a steep narrow drive to park my car at home and I get it exactly the same every time and yet I do not consciously use a reference point, but I must as there is no way I would get it right every time just by guessing.

I don't know of any ADI's who would deliberately string out manoeuvres for extra cash. Personally I would like to see manoeuvres signed off by another ADI and taken out of the test altogether.

Maz.

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#20 24-07-11 11:22:29

Terrier
Banned
From: Greater Manchester
Registered: 15-05-11
Posts: 657

Re: Left sweeping reverse procedure help please

Because there are some instructors who will quite happily exploit their pupils and see them as a cash cow.

Sorry but you are missing the point here, it's the old method of teach the pupil enough to pass the test that does not work even though it may be a quick fix to get the pupil doing it they will be left high and dry when reversing in a different car after the test.

It makes no difference whether the DSA dropped a manoeuvre on test, it's not about the test it's about preparing them for driving in the real world. As it stands at present the part 3 examiners expect a reference point for reversing because the have as little as 15 minuets for the PDI to teach it, also the part 3 exam is totally outdated and not fit for purpose, the DSA know this and have plans to change it.


ADI Development Greater Manchester & Cheshire Grade 6 ORDIT Approved
Cardington Grade A  RoSPA Gold
DSA External Trainer Certificate for Instructor Training

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#21 24-07-11 11:47:18

Hilary Hughes
Verified Member
From: Stockport, Manchester
Registered: 25-06-04
Posts: 1,232
Website

Re: Left sweeping reverse procedure help please

[ also the part 3 exam is totally outdated and not fit for purpose, the DSA know this and have plans to change it.

No test is actually fit other than to test the points of the test itself ( criteria ). Once you take away those criteria, you cease to have a fair test - albeit, on some occasions, a better one.

Hilary.


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#22 12-10-11 19:55:32

standon11
Verified Member
From: doncaster
Registered: 30-11-06
Posts: 632

Re: Left sweeping reverse procedure help please

your instructors technique may work great but still sounds a bit long winded to me.this technique if it works might be fine for you on pt2 but in my opinion,the way you describe this technique is that on pt3 an examiner may have a field day with you.

most real pupils can struggle with simple instrcutions never mind a turn here a turn there then do this halfway round the corner stuff.like i said over complicate things on pt3 & you'll just make it harder for yourself.

although you support your instructors style on this thread about the l reverse i notice your questioning them on another thread you have posted here.nothing wrong with that but reading your other post  i would also be questioning them if what you say is correct.

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#23 25-10-11 08:59:44

Graham Hooper
Verified Member
From: Ashford Kent
Registered: 12-02-06
Posts: 223
Website

Re: Left sweeping reverse procedure help please

It seems to me the coach in question doesnt understand coaching but we only have one side of the story and that is from the pupil.
Reference points can be used as a remedy but in my opinion not as a mandatory training aid. If we are thinking post test than a client needs to be able to transfer their learning into a different vehicle in differing circumstances, a one size fits all approach such as reference points may not fit in a post test situation.


www.1st-4.org
www.tri-coachingpartnership.co.uk
Part 3 Rescue a speciality, Fleet/Learner check test, Coaching courses, Advanced driving SAFED, ADI-CPD or if just want some advice.

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#24 25-10-11 13:12:59

Graham Hooper
Verified Member
From: Ashford Kent
Registered: 12-02-06
Posts: 223
Website

Re: Left sweeping reverse procedure help please

Danny I would imagine a pupil is capable of finding different reference points on different vehicles. I just suggested that a one size fits all approach may not fit in a post test situation. There is nothing wrong in the use of reference points as a remedy, I just dont think they are needed for every client.


www.1st-4.org
www.tri-coachingpartnership.co.uk
Part 3 Rescue a speciality, Fleet/Learner check test, Coaching courses, Advanced driving SAFED, ADI-CPD or if just want some advice.

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#25 25-10-11 16:46:02

metalmicky
Verified Member
From: Chesterfield
Registered: 10-01-11
Posts: 802
Website

Re: Left sweeping reverse procedure help please

Being able to work out their own reference points and recognizing their validity is a valuable asset to them, which is something I try and get mine doing.


Just because I'm a driving instructor, it doesn't make me a dual control freak. 
www.way-ahead-driving.co.uk

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