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#1 10-04-11 19:18:04

EKAL
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From: East Kilbride
Registered: 23-04-06
Posts: 1,050
Website

Rolling 1st?

Looking for some info here.

After a 3 week tour of duty around my company's 6 Distribution sites, training 11 site Assessors on SAFED train the trainer, and gaining invaluable experience, I came across a Volvo mechanic on site in East Kilbride (home town) who informed me that, their 21 ton Volvo should ONLY move off in 1st gear, but should never "take" a rolling 1st? all 11 assessors took a "rolling 1st on a good few occassions?

I was asked to "test" drive an HGV that had gear selection problems for 2 month, but was now sorted ;-)   I did so, and found gear selection perfect, except when selecting a "rolling 1st", my usual vehicle is the exact same, and I regularly take a rolling 1st when fully loaded, especially on approach to uphill roundabouts/junctions with limited vision.

Now! my view on mechanics is that they look at a book and finish the job ASAP so they get back to their tea and biscuit, but!! I asked opinions of other HGV drivers at site and some said they would never take a rolling 1st.

Anyone came across this??????????????


note, when I learned to drive an HGV, I moved off in 3rd gear, most makers now dictate the HGV should move off in 1st to prevent wear and tear on the gear box, but most drivers will move off in 2nd


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10-04-11 19:18:04

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Re: Rolling 1st?




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#2 10-04-11 20:22:25

shamus
Member
Registered: 19-01-09
Posts: 24
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Re: Rolling 1st?

What sort of gearbox are we talking about here? straight 6, range change or splitter?


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#3 10-04-11 20:39:37

EKAL
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From: East Kilbride
Registered: 23-04-06
Posts: 1,050
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Re: Rolling 1st?

straight 6, synchromesh - almost like driving a car


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#4 11-04-11 05:05:16

shamus
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Registered: 19-01-09
Posts: 24
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Re: Rolling 1st?

I agree with what you said in the op, if approaching an uphill junction / roundabout with a fully loaded vehicle and limited visibility then yes i would suggest using 1st, and yes a rolling 1st is fine as long as you scrub off the speed before selecting the gear and bringing up the clutch (this is of course with a straight 6)

The ratios in a range change gearbox are different though due to 1st gear being a lot lower geared and is only designed to be used when performing a hill start with a loaded vehicle, when empty you can move off in 2nd or 3rd.

With ref to mechanics i couldnt agree more, years ago while driving for a large international transport company who ran a large fleet of Leylands (show you how long ago it was) whenever the exhaust brake stopped working they refused to fix it saying they didnt like them as they damaged the engine....never mind the fact that Leyland and all other vehicle manufacturers researched the use of them and all vehicles were fitted with them as standard the mechanics thought they new best.


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#5 11-04-11 06:21:57

FRANKS
Verified Member
From: WALES
Registered: 05-06-06
Posts: 530

Re: Rolling 1st?

I'm coming from a differerent place, I work part time for a coach company which has a couple of striaght six denis coaches. It says on them as from new to move off in 1st gear, but the will easily move away in 2nd.

The thing is drivers who move off in 2nd gear wear out more clutches or have clutch problems where the drivers who move off in first have no problems with their clutches.


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#6 11-04-11 07:40:12

(ROG)
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From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: Rolling 1st?

Just been a discussion on this very subject on a big truckers site

Truck gearboxes are designed so that the bottom half of the gear are lifting gears so any of those can be used to set off but which one of those to be used depends on weight and incline at the time of setting off

If the clutch is not being slipped then the driver got the apropriate gear

The 'set off in 1st only' brigade are talking out of their ****s which is why the majority do not take them seriously


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Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#7 11-04-11 16:36:05

shamus
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Registered: 19-01-09
Posts: 24
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Re: Rolling 1st?

Franks dont forget the ratios for coaches are slightly different due to the fact that an empty bus weighs more than an empty truck and of course you have passenger comfort to consider. I suggest the drivers who pull off in second and wear out the clutch is allowing it to slip.


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#8 11-04-11 16:59:51

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: Rolling 1st?

Franks dont forget the ratios for coaches are slightly different due to the fact that an empty bus weighs more than an empty truck and of course you have passenger comfort to consider. I suggest the drivers who pull off in second and wear out the clutch is allowing it to slip.

Empty artic weighs around 14 tonnes - what does an empty coach weigh?


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Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#9 11-04-11 17:15:20

FRANKS
Verified Member
From: WALES
Registered: 05-06-06
Posts: 530

Re: Rolling 1st?

10 -12 Tonnes


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Be an 'HONEST BUSINESS PERSON'
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#10 11-04-11 19:15:40

shamus
Member
Registered: 19-01-09
Posts: 24
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Re: Rolling 1st?

were not talking about artics though are we?


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#11 11-04-11 20:30:42

KevB
Verified Member
From: Amesbury
Registered: 06-06-08
Posts: 1,725
Website

Re: Rolling 1st?

Not seen any artics with a straight 6 box.

Select the appropriate gear for the circumstances.
Empty wagon on all but the steepest incline should pull off and roll start comfy in 2nd.

Depending on the gear ratio, rolling 2nd may be preferable even in a loaded wagon as momentum is already in play. However, it may not be preferable to pull off in 2nd.


Of course, I'm talking mainly about 6 speed boxes.

After driving the truck for a few mins and seeing how much you have to slip the clutch on a rolling start should quickly help you identify wether it's ok to do so in 2nd or wether you are better off doing them in 1st.

It's true that some trucks simply won't like being put in 1st unless the vehicle is virtually stopped or is stopped.  In such vehicles, well you don't have much choice but to roll start in 2nd do you?

Slightly off topic...
Jaguar manual tells owners to move off in 1st gear.
however, Clarkson showed that the car can move off in 5th gear and pull all the way upto 145mph without gear changing.
Just because the vehicle CAN do it, that's no reason to ignore the additional wear and tear such use of selecting an over gear at low speeds or should be advocated.

For me, the bottom line can often be drawn by testing if excessive clutch slip is required to facilitate the higher gear selection in that vehicle with it's current load.

Like many things in driving, it's not a MUST DO or MUST NOT DO scenario. So if you are training trainers or other inhouse assesors, discuss the real world situations that the driver experiences in the vehicle he is driving and for the situations he faces.

Just my opinion of course.
KevB

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#12 13-04-11 22:50:06

EKAL
Verified Member
From: East Kilbride
Registered: 23-04-06
Posts: 1,050
Website

Re: Rolling 1st?

Just been a discussion on this very subject on a big truckers site

Hi ROG, what was the outcome on the trucker site?

I had another go in the same truck today, it seems it has now been sorted and can now take a "rolling" 1st if required, the truck had some sort of inhibitor fitted to prevent moving off in anything but 1st, and this seemed to be the problem.

cheers


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