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#1 31-10-10 09:50:00

paulcook
Verified Member
From: Edinburgh
Registered: 13-05-08
Posts: 130
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When can I start training PDIs?

When can I start training PDIs?

Don't worry, I DO want to wait until I feel I have a bit more credibility etc.  Just after your advice.

I qualified in Sep 09, although had a year on pink before that.  Got my Grade 5 recently and currently prepping to sit my DIAmond Special Test.  That's it.  No more qualifications at this time, although I intend to start the Diploma before the end of the year.  When am I deemed to have enough cred to advertise my services to PDIs?  And am I correct in thinking I don't need to be ORDIT registered?  In fact, is there anything legally stopping me advertising now?

Your thoughts appreciated.


Paul Cook, ADI, Grade 5, DIAmond Special Test

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31-10-10 09:50:00

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Re: When can I start training PDIs?



#2 31-10-10 10:11:07

Evan
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Registered: 27-12-09
Posts: 2,058

Re: When can I start training PDIs?

Hi Paul,

you can advertise to train PDI's now. But have you had the training to be an Instructor Trainer?

Good Instructor Trainers demand a high premium for their training. I would suggest you look through the threads on this forum, and read some of the storys and remarks made by PDI's, who have had substandard training from ADI's, who have claimed to be trainers, and not had sufficient skill or experience to deliver the goods resulting in a lot of disappointment and financial worry for them.

Sorry if that is a bit candid, but there is nothing worse than a PDI giving someone a lot of money, and not getting the correct or insufficient training and failing their last part 3.

If you start getting bad mouthed by PDI's who are not happy with what you give them, it could have a bad impact on your reputation and possibly you school.

I would think very carefully about it, but good luck if you decide to go this route. Ev

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#3 31-10-10 10:26:51

Freedom Phil
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From: Sunderland, North East UK
Registered: 31-03-09
Posts: 342
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Re: When can I start training PDIs?

My understanding was you cant advertise yourself as an instructor trainer unless you have ORDIT, but you can train someone to be an ADI and give sponsorship to a PDI as long as you are an ADI

.phil.
:angel:


DIA diploma in driving instruction.  DSA registered fleet trainer.  ORDIT registered trainer part's 1, 2, 3 & ORDIT premises inspected.  SAFED trainer and assessor.  RoSPA approved tutor.  Diamond registered advanced instructor.  Diamond qualified advanced examiner. City & Guilds 7303 PTLLS teaching certificate.  IAM advanced test, Diamond advanced test, Diamond special test, Cardington special test, RoSPA gold

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#4 31-10-10 11:15:31

Matterhorn
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Registered: 28-10-09
Posts: 46

Re: When can I start training PDIs?

You don't even need a driving licence to train PDI's for part 3.

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#5 31-10-10 13:00:45

Evan
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Registered: 27-12-09
Posts: 2,058

Re: When can I start training PDIs?

There are plenty of people advertising instructor training without ORDIT Phil, its sad but true. Ev

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#6 31-10-10 14:15:03

Roadmaster
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Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: When can I start training PDIs?

And there are plenty of excellent trainers who aren't ordit registered.

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#7 31-10-10 14:38:06

Evan
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Registered: 27-12-09
Posts: 2,058

Re: When can I start training PDIs?

Absolutely right Roadmaster totally agree with you. Ev

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#8 03-11-10 07:05:13

butt2
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Registered: 31-01-06
Posts: 246

Re: When can I start training PDIs?

I experienced poor training as a PDI as well as some that was excellent.  With this in mind I dont want to unleash myself on PDIs and end up providing substandard training that is only likely to have one outcome in terms of their success.

I am therefore currently taking an Instructor Training course and working slowly towards ORDIT regstration.  There is certainly plenty to learn and understand.

In very simplistic terms you have got to understand and be able to teach the intructor skill set and know how to fully test your PDIs in using that skill set.       

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#9 03-11-10 10:08:00

captainhook
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Registered: 12-06-06
Posts: 2,197
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Re: When can I start training PDIs?

I had sub standard training from a so called ordit training school back in the days-so don't think an ordit badge means your gonna get food training-do pupils for L test always get a good instructor just because we have a badge-no.

Its a business world we live in. Survival of the fittest. There are no actual qualifications for being a trainer-well no specific ones.

If you think you will offer good training to your pdi's then its wether you can convince them you are better than bsm, red training or any other number of organisations who allow ordinary instructors to become trainers long before the individual is Ordit registered. Only a certain number of individuals within a company need to be actually Ordit-the others can be trainees. So there really isnt a benchmark of credibility here if you ask me.


For intensive driving courses or weekly lessons from a driving school using the latest Audi A3 - covering the Slough and surrounding areas - visit www.go-pass-driving-school.co.uk

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#10 03-11-10 13:33:58

butt2
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Registered: 31-01-06
Posts: 246

Re: When can I start training PDIs?

Got to agree that simply going to an ORDIT trainer is in itself not a guarantee that the training you get will be to high standard.

From my own training experience as a PDI I would be very wary of any trainer that simply taught PSTs and not the essential underlying instructor skills.

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#11 09-11-10 15:28:40

Lily-Anne
Verified Member
From: Northampton
Registered: 21-05-07
Posts: 606
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Re: When can I start training PDIs?

I haven't renewed my ORDIT even though I train instructors and have done for a long time, my husband has been training instructors for over twenty years.  I know of many trainers who haven't renewed their licence, as it offers no guarantee of quality, only recommendations do that. The shake up of the ORDIT process originally offered grandfather rights to those on the register, this now appears to not be the case, yet is why many remained on the register. The new process is expected to be a watered down version of what was originally proposed.

I note you are planning to study for your diploma, is that the DIP DI through the DIA? If so the proceedure is changing to a computer based system, so do find out from your local or national rep what the proceedure now is before committing yourself to lots of study.

LA


http://www.centraladitraining.co.uk
BA, Dip Di, Cardington 'A', NLP Practitioner using coaching as a life skill.
http://www.aicoachingsolutions.com

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#12 10-11-10 06:43:44

hector
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From: Manchester
Registered: 04-04-06
Posts: 2,097
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Re: When can I start training PDIs?

Ordit supposedly no guarantee of quality? How the heck does that work? How about all the ADI trainers on here post up their Ordit training biennial inspection sheets??? And check test sheets for that matter?

Ordit is all about quality, as is a graded instructor, thats the whole point of the system, same as an ADI with a grade 4 isnt the same  as an ADI with a grade 6 and an ordit trained trainer is the same.

Anyone agree/disagree willing to put them up????


EXCELSIOR TRAINING 
James Dawson Grade 6 ADI (Ordit Registered) Ba (Hons) Driver Education
ADI qualification/Check test training/Excelsior DSA Ordit/fleet courses
Johnny boy United 20 its coming son

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#13 10-11-10 07:42:22

ADI Education
Verified Member
From: Lincolnshire
Registered: 31-08-09
Posts: 351
Website

Re: When can I start training PDIs?

Ordit supposedly no guarantee of quality? How the heck does that work? How about all the ADI trainers on here post up their Ordit training biennial inspection sheets??? And check test sheets for that matter?

Ordit is all about quality, as is a graded instructor, thats the whole point of the system, same as an ADI with a grade 4 isnt the same  as an ADI with a grade 6 and an ordit trained trainer is the same.

Unfortunately it doesn't always work like that. If only it was that simple. There are some very good trainers that are ORDIT Registered there are also some very poor ones. he fault in my opinion lies squarely on the DSA that clearly lower standards just to promote a voluntary scheme. yikes yikes
I am afraid as others have already stated in this thread being ORDIT registered is NO guarantee of quality and therefore defeats the objective of having a Register of Approved Trainers in the first place.
: :x
I am not ORDIT Registered for the above reasons. Until the DSA sort themselves out and ORDIT (or whatever scheme they come up With next) truly defines quality them I won't be applying to register.

Anyone agree/disagree willing to put them up????

Gloves well and truly on Hector big_smile

[img=Verdana][/img]


I am a former Police Driving Instructor and Ex DSA ADI examiner. My qualifications include: BTEC Level 4 Police Driving Skills, BTEC Level 3 in Teaching Advanced driving, NVQ A1 Assessors awrard, DIAmond advanced test, RoSPA gold, Cardington A. I am a grade 6 DSA Instructor, fleet trained and a Class 1 Police Driver. www.janeclarkedrivinginstructortraining.co.uk

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#14 10-11-10 08:07:22

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: When can I start training PDIs?

Ordit is all about quality

It's about being on a DSA register.  And that's all it is. 
The checktest grade is no guarantee of quality either. 

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#15 10-11-10 08:29:52

hector
Verified Member
From: Manchester
Registered: 04-04-06
Posts: 2,097
Website

Re: When can I start training PDIs?

Ordit is all about quality

It's about being on a DSA register.  And that's all it is. 
The checktest grade is no guarantee of quality either.

Absolute rubbish


EXCELSIOR TRAINING 
James Dawson Grade 6 ADI (Ordit Registered) Ba (Hons) Driver Education
ADI qualification/Check test training/Excelsior DSA Ordit/fleet courses
Johnny boy United 20 its coming son

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#16 10-11-10 08:39:40

hector
Verified Member
From: Manchester
Registered: 04-04-06
Posts: 2,097
Website

Re: When can I start training PDIs?

hector wrote:

Ordit supposedly no guarantee of quality? How the heck does that work? How about all the ADI trainers on here post up their Ordit training biennial inspection sheets??? And check test sheets for that matter?

Ordit is all about quality, as is a graded instructor, thats the whole point of the system, same as an ADI with a grade 4 isnt the same  as an ADI with a grade 6 and an ordit trained trainer is the same.

Unfortunately it doesn't always work like that. If only it was that simple. There are some very good trainers that are ORDIT Registered there are also some very poor ones. he fault in my opinion lies squarely on the DSA that clearly lower standards just to promote a voluntary scheme. yikes yikes
I am afraid as others have already stated in this thread being ORDIT registered is NO guarantee of quality and therefore defeats the objective of having a Register of Approved Trainers in the first place.
: :x
I am not ORDIT Registered for the above reasons. Until the DSA sort themselves out and ORDIT (or whatever scheme they come up With next) truly defines quality them I won't be applying to register.

Anyone agree/disagree willing to put them up????

Gloves well and truly on Hector big_smile

[img=Verdana][/img]

Read my post again??? It states clearly i thought about the Ordit grades being important, that is where the point of the system lies.


EXCELSIOR TRAINING 
James Dawson Grade 6 ADI (Ordit Registered) Ba (Hons) Driver Education
ADI qualification/Check test training/Excelsior DSA Ordit/fleet courses
Johnny boy United 20 its coming son

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#17 10-11-10 10:55:14

looprevil
Verified Member
Registered: 17-03-08
Posts: 424

Re: When can I start training PDIs?

There will always be different sides of a divide when a system regularly does not deliver the aims and objectives it sets for itself or comply with the rules and guidelines it makes.

This does not mean that there aren't good quality training providers on both sides of the debate nor does it mean that there aren't also poor training providers on each side.

The issue I see with ORDIT is that it is a system managed by the DSA for the government hence there should be credibility that anyone sourcing any of the training providers through that system should get someone providing quality training to meet their needs and their aspirations of becoming a successful driving educator.

Unfortunately too often stories are heard where that doesn't happen even though the trainee has selected that provider due to them being ORDIT registered, this tarnishes the credibility of the system which in turn makes it unfair for those providers that adopt and follow the principles and rules of ORDIT and deliver good quality training.

Until such a time where the DSA has a system in place that means in reality a trainee gets the training they should be getting from providers that are following the rules/guidelines of that system this debate will continue.

regards

Paddy


smile  big_smile  lol  cool

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#18 10-11-10 11:06:30

daz6215
Verified Member
Registered: 07-06-08
Posts: 449

Re: When can I start training PDIs?

It's not always the trainers fault, some trainees will never grasp what is required no matter who is training them, it only takes one disillusioned individual to gob off that the said establishment was rubbish when in reality it's them!

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#19 10-11-10 16:01:18

Lily-Anne
Verified Member
From: Northampton
Registered: 21-05-07
Posts: 606
Website

Re: When can I start training PDIs?

The grading system is flawed anyway. I know of an ADI who takes his wife to his CT, she is a former ADI now running their driving school office, he is graded a six, definitely by default. I know of someone who is big footie buddies with his SE, graded a six also.

I know of an ADI who was recently down graded form a 5 to a 4, by an SE he had previously 'had words with'.

The testers are as human as the tested.  ORDIT in it's current form is not a guarantee of quality and never was.  An orgainisation can be registered as offering ORDIT training, but, all trainers do not have needed to go through the process ....

LA


http://www.centraladitraining.co.uk
BA, Dip Di, Cardington 'A', NLP Practitioner using coaching as a life skill.
http://www.aicoachingsolutions.com

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#20 10-11-10 16:50:04

ADI Education
Verified Member
From: Lincolnshire
Registered: 31-08-09
Posts: 351
Website

Re: When can I start training PDIs?

ADI Education wrote:
hector wrote:

Ordit supposedly no guarantee of quality? How the heck does that work? How about all the ADI trainers on here post up their Ordit training biennial inspection sheets??? And check test sheets for that matter?

Ordit is all about quality, as is a graded instructor, thats the whole point of the system, same as an ADI with a grade 4 isnt the same  as an ADI with a grade 6 and an ordit trained trainer is the same.

Unfortunately it doesn't always work like that. If only it was that simple. There are some very good trainers that are ORDIT Registered there are also some very poor ones. he fault in my opinion lies squarely on the DSA that clearly lower standards just to promote a voluntary scheme. yikes yikes
I am afraid as others have already stated in this thread being ORDIT registered is NO guarantee of quality and therefore defeats the objective of having a Register of Approved Trainers in the first place.
: :x
I am not ORDIT Registered for the above reasons. Until the DSA sort themselves out and ORDIT (or whatever scheme they come up With next) truly defines quality them I won't be applying to register.

Anyone agree/disagree willing to put them up????

Gloves well and truly on Hector big_smile

[img=Verdana][/img]

Read my post again??? It states clearly i thought about the Ordit grades being important, that is where the point of the system lies.

So what do you do with those trainers just scrape the required standard but don't score a 6????????


I am a former Police Driving Instructor and Ex DSA ADI examiner. My qualifications include: BTEC Level 4 Police Driving Skills, BTEC Level 3 in Teaching Advanced driving, NVQ A1 Assessors awrard, DIAmond advanced test, RoSPA gold, Cardington A. I am a grade 6 DSA Instructor, fleet trained and a Class 1 Police Driver. www.janeclarkedrivinginstructortraining.co.uk

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#21 10-11-10 18:57:04

hector
Verified Member
From: Manchester
Registered: 04-04-06
Posts: 2,097
Website

Re: When can I start training PDIs?

The grading system is flawed anyway. I know of an ADI who takes his wife to his CT, she is a former ADI now running their driving school office, he is graded a six, definitely by default. I know of someone who is big footie buddies with his SE, graded a six also.

I know of an ADI who was recently down graded form a 5 to a 4, by an SE he had previously 'had words with'.

The testers are as human as the tested.  ORDIT in it's current form is not a guarantee of quality and never was.  An orgainisation can be registered as offering ORDIT training, but, all trainers do not have needed to go through the process ....

LA

You dont get graded 6 by default, thats just plain silly, you get graded a six by knowing how to deliver a quality driving lesson using all the main instructional techniques and core competencies.

In adittion using good people skills.


EXCELSIOR TRAINING 
James Dawson Grade 6 ADI (Ordit Registered) Ba (Hons) Driver Education
ADI qualification/Check test training/Excelsior DSA Ordit/fleet courses
Johnny boy United 20 its coming son

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#22 10-11-10 19:04:12

hector
Verified Member
From: Manchester
Registered: 04-04-06
Posts: 2,097
Website

Re: When can I start training PDIs?

hector wrote:
ADI Education wrote:
hector wrote:

Ordit supposedly no guarantee of quality? How the heck does that work? How about all the ADI trainers on here post up their Ordit training biennial inspection sheets??? And check test sheets for that matter?

Ordit is all about quality, as is a graded instructor, thats the whole point of the system, same as an ADI with a grade 4 isnt the same  as an ADI with a grade 6 and an ordit trained trainer is the same.

Unfortunately it doesn't always work like that. If only it was that simple. There are some very good trainers that are ORDIT Registered there are also some very poor ones. he fault in my opinion lies squarely on the DSA that clearly lower standards just to promote a voluntary scheme. yikes yikes
I am afraid as others have already stated in this thread being ORDIT registered is NO guarantee of quality and therefore defeats the objective of having a Register of Approved Trainers in the first place.
: :x
I am not ORDIT Registered for the above reasons. Until the DSA sort themselves out and ORDIT (or whatever scheme they come up With next) truly defines quality them I won't be applying to register.

Anyone agree/disagree willing to put them up????

Gloves well and truly on Hector big_smile

[img=Verdana][/img]

Read my post again??? It states clearly i thought about the Ordit grades being important, that is where the point of the system lies.

So what do you do with those trainers just scrape the required standard but don't score a 6????????

Get extra training from someone in the know and do better next time? Thats an easy question. Any ordit trainer without a grade 6 would hopefully strive to get there and unfortunately the reality is until they do, their PDI's are not getting the best value for money in their training.

This issue isnt about the ordit scheme oitself its about the grade achieved for anyone brave enough to take the inspection.


EXCELSIOR TRAINING 
James Dawson Grade 6 ADI (Ordit Registered) Ba (Hons) Driver Education
ADI qualification/Check test training/Excelsior DSA Ordit/fleet courses
Johnny boy United 20 its coming son

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#23 10-11-10 19:21:31

daz6215
Verified Member
Registered: 07-06-08
Posts: 449

Re: When can I start training PDIs?

how much of a difference is there say between a 4 and  5, or 5 and  6 ?

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#24 10-11-10 23:35:12

Lily-Anne
Verified Member
From: Northampton
Registered: 21-05-07
Posts: 606
Website

Re: When can I start training PDIs?

Lily-Anne wrote:

The grading system is flawed anyway. I know of an ADI who takes his wife to his CT, she is a former ADI now running their driving school office, he is graded a six, definitely by default. I know of someone who is big footie buddies with his SE, graded a six also.

I know of an ADI who was recently down graded form a 5 to a 4, by an SE he had previously 'had words with'.

The testers are as human as the tested.  ORDIT in it's current form is not a guarantee of quality and never was.  An orgainisation can be registered as offering ORDIT training, but, all trainers do not have needed to go through the process ....

LA

You dont get graded 6 by default, thats just plain silly, you get graded a six by knowing how to deliver a quality driving lesson using all the main instructional techniques and core competencies.

In adittion using good people skills.

Unfortunately you are very niave if you believe that


http://www.centraladitraining.co.uk
BA, Dip Di, Cardington 'A', NLP Practitioner using coaching as a life skill.
http://www.aicoachingsolutions.com

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#25 11-11-10 06:31:23

hector
Verified Member
From: Manchester
Registered: 04-04-06
Posts: 2,097
Website

Re: When can I start training PDIs?

hector wrote:
Lily-Anne wrote:

The grading system is flawed anyway. I know of an ADI who takes his wife to his CT, she is a former ADI now running their driving school office, he is graded a six, definitely by default. I know of someone who is big footie buddies with his SE, graded a six also.

I know of an ADI who was recently down graded form a 5 to a 4, by an SE he had previously 'had words with'.

The testers are as human as the tested.  ORDIT in it's current form is not a guarantee of quality and never was.  An orgainisation can be registered as offering ORDIT training, but, all trainers do not have needed to go through the process ....

LA

You dont get graded 6 by default, thats just plain silly, you get graded a six by knowing how to deliver a quality driving lesson using all the main instructional techniques and core competencies.

In adittion using good people skills.

Unfortunately you are very niave if you believe that

Lily Anne please dont insult me and call me Niave, you are the one who is niave if you believe an ADI who gets a 6 has somehow cheated the system, and ADI's are down graded because of spats with examiners and the like, they just aint good enough pure and simple.

If they spent less time grousing and blaming someone else, and more time trying to improve, things might be different. Every trainer i can think of who didnt achieve a 6 fully understands why and didnt disagree with the decision. Just makes the best try even harder next time. The 'blame someone else, i was always only going to get a 4' brigade probably will. No definitely will.

Could i ask how many DSA examinations you have observed to come to your conclusions??????
How many Ordit inspections have you observed?
How many check tests have you observed?
How many part 3 's have you observed?

Or are the conclusions you and may other trainers on here come to simply listening to others?


EXCELSIOR TRAINING 
James Dawson Grade 6 ADI (Ordit Registered) Ba (Hons) Driver Education
ADI qualification/Check test training/Excelsior DSA Ordit/fleet courses
Johnny boy United 20 its coming son

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