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#26 21-10-10 13:38:22

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: CT in the morning,

My comments  that it shouldn't be allowed referred to  L driver checktests, not fleet.  I know that is a different situation, but you are still pretending by doing role play.
That's fine if you can act, but it is not assessing your real skills to deal with live people in real situations.

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21-10-10 13:38:22

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Re: CT in the morning,



#27 21-10-10 14:19:12

AndyLawton
Verified Member
From: Chesterfield
Registered: 23-09-10
Posts: 68

Re: CT in the morning,

Just on a positive after leaving the house this morning thinking I was crap at this job and at an all time low, I took a student today for PT and she passed 1st time with 3 minors big_smile, so I'm feeling much better this afternoon.

I'm gonna approach the next test better prepared with a pupil who hopefuly wont crash and burn on me LOL


Turnover is vanity   -    Profit is sanity

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#28 21-10-10 14:41:22

boing boing
Verified Member
Registered: 21-09-10
Posts: 86
Website

Re: CT in the morning,

Hi andy, I agree with you that the CT is fake, just like the pt 3 test.

I ain't done a ct yet...

.. harsh.  You don't have to put on an act.  As you say yourself, carry out a lesson to the best of your ability.  I can only speak from my own experience; be yourself, be positive about the experience and you may even walk away with a smile on your face.

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#29 21-10-10 16:09:13

hoylake
Verified Member
From: Heysham
Registered: 21-09-07
Posts: 1,435
Website

Re: CT in the morning,

I have heard of some FT who have given a PowerPoint presentation for nearly the whole hour!!

Surely that is the fault of the SE.

On mine the SE wrapped it up at around the 10 minute mark.


http://www.sophiesdrivinglancaster.co.uk
Adi & Fleet Trainer, RoSPA Gold

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#30 21-10-10 17:38:45

Herbie
Verified Member
From: Langport, Somerset
Registered: 27-05-09
Posts: 206
Website

Re: CT in the morning,

Hey Andy,

Try not to beat yourself up over it too much. My 1st check test was a bit of a disaster too. My pupil was suffering from excess pressure in her head (she ended up in hospital several times over it right after the CT) so she was getting double vision, but neglected to tell me as she wanted the free pass plus on offer  neutral She went from a good pupil with no real problems, to one who was suddenly having problems with clearance and ended up smacking wing mirrors with another car. We went back to check and thankfully there was no damage to either car. But at the end of the day, it was my fault as I didn't fix the clearance fault, and carried on with crossroads.

My next one went much better btw smile

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#31 21-10-10 19:06:42

samds
Verified Member
Registered: 21-01-08
Posts: 526
Website

Re: CT in the morning,

Andy,

Sorry to hear about your CT.  I've listed a few things in the CPD section, in particular John Farlams 'Instructor Guide', which will help you. 

Give some consideration to 'role play'.

Cheers

Scott





At University studying Humanities with Literature and Music.

http://www.myspace.com/scottmacalister/

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#32 21-10-10 19:46:34

mspl
Member
Registered: 30-09-09
Posts: 207

Re: CT in the morning,

m6northtoheaven wrote:

Hi andy, I agree with you that the CT is fake, just like the pt 3 test.

I ain't done a ct yet...

.. harsh.  You don't have to put on an act.  As you say yourself, carry out a lesson to the best of your ability.  I can only speak from my own experience; be yourself, be positive about the experience and you may even walk away with a smile on your face.

Very well put Mr Boing,all said and done a check test is just a normal lesson.

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#33 21-10-10 20:04:21

standon11
Verified Member
From: doncaster
Registered: 30-11-06
Posts: 632

Re: CT in the morning,

don't see why role play shouldn't be allowed on check test roadmaster.i use it many others do & works very well for a lot of us.let's not kid ourselves here that taking real pupils is much different to role play.i have spoken to many many instructors who take real pupils on ct & was gobsmacked to find a lot of them go through the whole thing the day before with the pupil,what there gonna teach,take them on the exact route,tell them what questions to ask everything.a complete set up from start to finish.

it's your career andy,if you really don't want to avoid what happened this time round go for role play, like i said many that take real pupils set it all up before hand anyway.spoke to one recently who gave his own daughter the lesson countless times in a week & they just acted out the lesson as if normal & got a 6 for it.just proves the check test doesn't mean anything.

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#34 21-10-10 20:26:03

AndyLawton
Verified Member
From: Chesterfield
Registered: 23-09-10
Posts: 68

Re: CT in the morning,

Hummmmmmmm,

lots of valid points and + - for the pupil v role play scenario.

I'm over it now and back to the job of teaching my pupils another good 1st time pass today with only 3 minors so I can do the job and do a very good job as well.
All I need to do is put the dissapointment out of my mind and prepare myself for the next one in 12 weeks time, student-roleplay student-roleplay I suppose this conversation is gonna come up on a regular basis for me over the weeks before the test. Still unsure what way I'll go with it but I realy want to take the proper approach and use the student on the day who normaly has his-her lesson at that time with in hindsight more preperation.

I still think the whole process is outdated and not fit for cause, if they can introduce ID as part of the test (something I have taught for the last 16 months anyway since my part3 and danm sure many of you have been doing for much longer than that) then why cant they change the process by which we are monitored. The DE enter the details from a test sheet onto a computer so why not some tick boxes to register the DF the student makes, I'm no computer expert but surely it cant be that difficult. We were accused of being reluctant of change when the ID was coming in maybe the same can be said for SE and the DSA with regards to the way we are monitored for our teaching standards.

Nuff said on the matter, look forward to some more healthy debate next time round but on a much more positive note.


Turnover is vanity   -    Profit is sanity

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#35 21-10-10 21:30:23

mspl
Member
Registered: 30-09-09
Posts: 207

Re: CT in the morning,

Andy I would not get to hung up on your test results,they are no doubt a good yardstick of your performance,
but are not the be all and end all.
When I did my check test, I mentioned to the SE that I had a good pass rate,she told me that she had no interest
or knowledge of my pass rate,and that it meant nothing to her on the check test.
She told me that the idea of the check test was to ensure that:
1. The pupil received value for money.
2. Learning took place.
3. I behaved in responsible and ethical manner towards the pupil.

All said and done isn't that what we aim to provide on every lesson.

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#36 22-10-10 07:33:10

Dux
Verified Member
From: Manchester
Registered: 12-09-07
Posts: 985
Website

Re: CT in the morning,

Have to laugh at the DSA assessing US for giving value for money, I think they may need to look a little closer to home about value for money, if we didn't give it we'd been dead and buried in no time, I can't say the same for them.


Part 1 Passed April 07

Part 2 Passed June 07 3 Minors

Part 3 Delayed Success 05/12/07    3-3

Part 3 Passed 20/02/08      5-5

Diamond Advanced Driver 03/06/08

www.polepositiondrivertraining.co.uk

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#37 22-10-10 07:39:50

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: CT in the morning,

If it's about value for money does that mean DSA accepts an ADI charging £15 per lesson can give a poorer lesson than someone charging £25 and still get a high grade?   roll

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#38 22-10-10 07:47:07

Aspyre
Member
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: CT in the morning,

I think that when you look at ONLY the factors affecting a £15 hourly rate compared with a £25 hourly rate (i.e. when someone chooses to charge £15 when they could easily charge higher in that area), then there is a DISTINCT POSSIBILITY that those charging £15 are more likely to give a poor lesson than those charging £25.

An ADI who has been charging £25 for 10 years, and who suddenly finds he is "having" to charge £15 for some reason is inevitably going to have to cut back on expenses..... like fuel. And I'm sure he'll feel less motivated by the fact he is turning over less than 60% of what he was in the good old days before he had to make the cut.

Of course, if everyone in a given area is charging £15 then all pupils in the area are likely to get a lesson of the quality typical - ALL CIRCUMSTANCES CONSIDERED - in that area.

It doesn't need the DSA to get involved to see that.

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#39 22-10-10 08:15:27

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: CT in the morning,

Who mentioned about an ADI 'having' to drop to charge £15 per hour?  There are a number of ADIs who do this job as a hobby, they have other sources of income, so they are happy to do cheap.

Like many others, you seem to believe that cheap has to be crap.   Obviously you never shop around to get a better deal because it must be inferior?    Have you not read  the thread about insurance on this forum, and how every ADI shops around for cheaper insurance. 

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#40 22-10-10 08:20:31

Aspyre
Member
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: CT in the morning,

Cheap is MORE LIKELY to mean crap Roadmaster (using your terminology), especially when it is done through choice to try and corner the market.

I know from experience that below a certain point, low price definitely DOES mean crap (not ADIS, but the other things you are alluding to). In many cases at the very least. So there IS a correlation.

As for who mentioned ADI.... well, I did :? Didn't you notice? It's as relevant as that comment about the DSA approving lesson prices  roll

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#41 22-10-10 09:25:28

Peter_Cary
Verified Member
Registered: 08-04-06
Posts: 1,193
Website

Re: CT in the morning,

Andy I would not get to hung up on your test results,they are no doubt a good yardstick of your performance,
but are not the be all and end all.
When I did my check test, I mentioned to the SE that I had a good pass rate,she told me that she had no interest
or knowledge of my pass rate,and that it meant nothing to her on the check test.
She told me that the idea of the check test was to ensure that:
1. The pupil received value for money.
2. Learning took place.
3. I behaved in responsible and ethical manner towards the pupil.

All said and done isn't that what we aim to provide on every lesson.

If this was truely the case the SE would have to ask the student how much they were being charged as i know many ADIs actually give the CT lesson to the learner indeed.....

I don't charge my pupils for a checktest lesson, and I give them another one free.  That's because they are helping me.

Going on that Roadmaster should be at least a grade 10 In DSA's eyes  big_smile big_smile

BUT... C*** in the eyes of some for giving lessons away.

[img=Verdana][color=red]I think they may need to look a little closer to home about value for money[/img][/color],

Many a true word spoken in jest  big_smile big_smile big_smile big_smile

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#42 22-10-10 13:17:45

Aspyre
Member
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: CT in the morning,

I don't think anyone has said giving a free lesson on a CT is "cheap".

The point - though what it has to do with the OP is unclear - was: is "an ADI charging £15 per lesson" doing a poorer job in the DSA's eyes?

Quite how they'd know, even if they were interested, is even less clear.

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#43 22-10-10 13:52:21

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: CT in the morning,

The point - though what it has to do with the OP is unclear - was: is "an ADI charging £15 per lesson" doing a poorer job in the DSA's eyes?

Err no.  You need to read posts properly.  It doesn't say that at all.   Here's what it says -

If it's about value for money does that mean DSA accepts an ADI charging £15 per lesson can give a poorer lesson than someone charging £25 and still get a high grade?

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#44 22-10-10 13:54:12

Aspyre
Member
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: CT in the morning,

I apologise, Roadmaster.

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#45 22-10-10 13:58:24

mspl
Member
Registered: 30-09-09
Posts: 207

Re: CT in the morning,

It doesn't matter what the ADI is charging they still need to be perceived to be giving value for money.
The pupil pays us,and expects to receive something in return,now as to how much they pay,well we
all know that could debate could go on and on for ever.

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#46 22-10-10 15:04:22

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: CT in the morning,

So how is value for money assessed?

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#47 22-10-10 16:34:21

AndyLawton
Verified Member
From: Chesterfield
Registered: 23-09-10
Posts: 68

Re: CT in the morning,

So how is value for money assessed?

Sadly not on this topic, which appears to have been highjacked and has nothing to do with the original title, what started as good constructive comments on my eventfull CT-Educational has turned into a bun fight or hand bags at dawn, please please guys keep it on the subjuct or start a new topic I keep coming back to hear the point of somebody on their CT to find nothing relevant.


Turnover is vanity   -    Profit is sanity

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#48 22-10-10 16:43:44

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: CT in the morning,

Apologies Andy for my part.  It happens regularly that threads go off topic.  Perhaps the mods can split it up

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#49 22-10-10 16:47:16

AndyLawton
Verified Member
From: Chesterfield
Registered: 23-09-10
Posts: 68

Re: CT in the morning,

Its the nature of open forums, no offence taken.


Turnover is vanity   -    Profit is sanity

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#50 19-01-11 21:36:45

AndyLawton
Verified Member
From: Chesterfield
Registered: 23-09-10
Posts: 68

Re: CT in the morning,

Well after my miserable 1st attempt,
I have my 12 weeks latter visit from another examiner, much better prepared this time with a student whom I'm sure will be able to deal with the SE being in the car and not crumble into a gibbering wreck in the first 5 mins.
My lesson plan is Multi lane r-bouts and dual carriageways. last lesson was multilane r-bouts from single lane entry and exit, so visit the same r-bouts this time coming from the dual carriageway and exiting onto dual carriageways and all the associated issues of dual carriageways.
Wish me luck


Turnover is vanity   -    Profit is sanity

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