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#1 19-10-10 21:40:11

AndyLawton
Verified Member
From: Chesterfield
Registered: 23-09-10
Posts: 68

CT in the morning,

  roll
Not sure why but I'm looking forward to my CT  :? :?

Off to bed now to get a good nights sleep and be bright and bushy tailed for my 1st CT
Gonna do forward planning-Anticipation my student has a test booked but on his last lesson we did a mock test but he could'nt read the road and see problems for toffee.

I'll be back to let you know how it went good or bad.

Andy big_smile


Turnover is vanity   -    Profit is sanity

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19-10-10 21:40:11

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Re: CT in the morning,




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#2 19-10-10 21:41:19

mikerow
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From: Norfolk
Registered: 23-08-05
Posts: 363
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Re: CT in the morning,

Good luck


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#3 19-10-10 21:46:39

quickpass
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Registered: 31-08-09
Posts: 28

Re: CT in the morning,

Good luck

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#4 19-10-10 22:35:36

lucy
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Registered: 28-09-06
Posts: 175
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Re: CT in the morning,

Hope all goes well with your check test, dont forget to let us know how you got on.

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#5 19-10-10 23:19:46

Adi1234
Guest

Re: CT in the morning,

Good Luck with It I am sure It will go well do a write Up if U get some time.

thanks Ben

#6 20-10-10 14:09:32

Silvercar
Verified Member
Registered: 19-08-04
Posts: 327

Re: CT in the morning,

Good luck, and remember the bullsh!t we tell our pupils to conquer their nervers "works" honest.  yikes  big_smile

A couple of bottles of calms should do it.  :evil:

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#7 20-10-10 20:24:08

AndyLawton
Verified Member
From: Chesterfield
Registered: 23-09-10
Posts: 68

Re: CT in the morning,

Were do I start,
firstly it was not a CT (as the paperwork says) but an educational I qualified in July 09 but they have only just around to me.

It did'nt go well lets say  :oops:. My student completely fell to pieces under the pressure of having somebody else in the car, I stressed so many times not to worry it was me being assesed but it was just to much for him. Floods of tears and simply could'nt drive for toffee. Had him out of the car to try and settle down but he felt he was letting me down and just could'nt handle the whole situation.
Had it been a normal lesson and a student ended up in that kind of state I would have abandoned the lesson and gone to McDonalds for coffee to talk about the problems or driven myself and did commentary until they were in a fit state to drive again. Under the circumstances I felt it would be unapropriate to do that and tried to soldier on, my student just got worse and worse, every problem I dealt with just chipped a little more at his confidence and it spiralled down hill fast very fast for him, I got to the point that I was virtualy driving the car from my seat and went back to the TC for the debrief.
I was picked up for not briefing the student on having a third person in the car, we did this before the SE got in the car, extra weight = more gas, uphill starts more difficult, breaking may be effected, light steering blah blah, but I did'nt do it again once the lesson started I was told however to ignore the fact I had somebody else in the car so did !!!!!
Students seat belt was twisted, not once but twice apparently !!! no it was'nt.
I was classed as unsatisfactory and need to have another in 12 weeks,

Now I know their were problems that I could not deal with simply due to the emotional state of my pupil and the SE did'nt for one moment take this into account, I know I'm a much better instructor than today's result show, I will be back better prepared to get things sorted.

Their is an argument for using the SE as a pupil to avoid the very problems I had but I wanted things to be as natural as possible like it would be on a normal lesson, no prep work with the student (other than making sure they know it's me under scrutiny not them, weight ect) but this was wrong for me with this particular student, test ready booked for just over 2wks time. He is a good driver and is a classical example of them falling to pieces on test albeit my test not his, I'm seriously considering rebooking his test now how will he deal with a real test of his own !!!!!

Now I'm not bitter about the result just very dissapointed, I'm not anoyed with the SE for the result  but feel the whole CT or educational is outdated and not fit for cause it's to open for fixing by the instructor ( hand picked student, briefed and primed) and simply not a good representation of an instructors ability to teach, it's not a natural enviroment for the student. I would prefer for something like all my test minors-Serious-dangerous faults to be recoreded against my ADI number then the pattern that arrise's out of that will show my weakness as an instructor I would then be expected to teach a lesson on that subject or faults and then be assessed on that by a SE, that would also include for me some CPD.

Sure I'm gonna be contradicted on some of my comments but thats my thoughts on the way it went for me today. I dont want to start a defence of my comments saga so please take it as it is and not a attack on the system or me just having a go because I did'nt do well. I will be back in 12 weeks time bigger and better with another pupil another lesson plan and hopefully it will be better than today.

Andy


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#8 20-10-10 20:48:29

neil8181
Verified Member
From: Accrington
Registered: 03-11-07
Posts: 645

Re: CT in the morning,

Only you will know whether YOU could of done better. Only YOU can decide whether it was the situation or whether you thought things went well, only to get a good "bringing down to earth". I would possibly put this down to the situation and try not to deviate away from your belief to make it as "natural" as possible.

Brush yourself off and try again!


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#9 20-10-10 21:14:05

AndyLawton
Verified Member
From: Chesterfield
Registered: 23-09-10
Posts: 68

Re: CT in the morning,

Just what I plan to do Neil,
but it's hard not to try and look at the finer detail.
It will make a better instructor and stronger for the experience albeit a painful one.
Had I been more experienced and a bit stronger or confident I think I would have taken the bull by the horns and terminated the lesson regardless of the SE in the car. My student and his ability to be safe and his emotional state were my priority and should have dictated my actions.
I should'nt have tried to soldier on and make the best of it I felt under pressure to put on a good show for the SE, not I might add my normal approach to a lesson, learn something enjoy it and look forward to the getting back in the car for the next lesson are my 3 objectives for every lesson, If I asked my student them 3 questions today it would have been 3 big fat noooo.


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#10 20-10-10 21:22:56

johnp
Verified Member
From: Dorset
Registered: 04-03-06
Posts: 2,636

Re: CT in the morning,

Hi Andy,
So sorry to hear your true story.
It just shows what can happen when you are dealing with real people rather than fitting them into the system. I would be interested to know what your SE would have thought if you had terminated the lesson.
This would have been the correct decision especially as he is due for a test soon.

Difficult to comment except to agree with your comments about the CT being outdated and irrelevant.
Well done for keeping positive and trust the next goes well.
Think very carefully as to who you take next time.!!   


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2. "DISABILITY into ABILITY" 
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#11 20-10-10 21:30:51

AndyLawton
Verified Member
From: Chesterfield
Registered: 23-09-10
Posts: 68

Re: CT in the morning,

At the time I was just so dissapointed in myself and the result it did'nt enter my mind to ask the SE what would have happened had I taken that decision. The local TC has a TCM surgery this Friday afternoon I'm going to go in and go over some of the details and get some advice on how to progress.

Your point on think carefully on who to take next time is the problem in itself, who's right person who's wrong person, and the role play option is just not like a true lesson it's fake. I figured my pupil was going to be fine it just wasn't like him to crumble like he did I just hope it's not destroyed his confidence moving forward.


Turnover is vanity   -    Profit is sanity

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#12 20-10-10 21:55:00

mspl
Member
Registered: 30-09-09
Posts: 207

Re: CT in the morning,

Andy don't beat yourself up to much about todays result,it happens to more than you know.
You said your pupil lost the plot,and I presume by this you mean that he kept stalling due to the extra weight in the car.
Did you at this stage abandon the original lesson plan,and concentrate on sorting out moving of and stopping under control.
Once this was under control you could return to the original plan if time permitted.
A common mistake on C/Tests is to be afraid to change your plan,and then end up acheiving nothing.
No point arguing about the format of the check test,it's here to stay for the time being,and I agree
it is open to manipulation,but until the DSA come up with something different !!!!!!!

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#13 20-10-10 22:05:46

Dux
Verified Member
From: Manchester
Registered: 12-09-07
Posts: 985
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Re: CT in the morning,

There but for the grace of god go all of us Andy. Whatever you do in this situation it's false, role play or pupil it doesn't matter, you'll never teach how you would normally on your everyday lessons. I agree it's outdated but I'm not sure they would have the resources to check everyones test results and come up with a test for each ADI throughout the country, I don't have a viable alternative to offer though, so unfortunately this is all we have, good luck on the next attempt smile


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#14 20-10-10 22:06:03

Aspyre
Member
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: CT in the morning,

At the time I was just so dissapointed in myself and the result it did'nt enter my mind to ask the SE what would have happened had I taken that decision.

If you think about it, in your situation (recently qualified, so an educational a possibility), if you had terminated the lesson how could it have resulted in a better grade?

The SE would have had nothing to mark, just as he had nothing to mark in the scenario you experienced. The CT with a real pupil is artificial only inasmuch as if what you experienced happens (and it usually doesn't) then no real score is possible from that CT. It's more or less null and void for all concerned.

Good luck on the next one.

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#15 20-10-10 22:11:28

Silvercar
Verified Member
Registered: 19-08-04
Posts: 327

Re: CT in the morning,

Andy I admire you for trying to do the lesson as "just a normal lesson" (DSA blurb). Its a game of tick the box, examiners don't teach anyone or anything.

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#16 21-10-10 07:30:03

Target
Verified Member
From: Winchmore Hill North London
Registered: 17-01-05
Posts: 5,695
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Re: CT in the morning,

Andy.....I think you have to be very cute as to what you tell the pupil leading upto the CT, as they can over perform and feel they will let you down.

Especially if they think you will loose your job.

I know of one driving school who use to use a secretary from the school to do Check Tests. They become rather good at making the instructors look good wink

That said id would consider some training. Get some advice from someone whos knows. Its worth it!

Brave to come on here and say it thou. Not many would.


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#17 21-10-10 08:23:52

mspl
Member
Registered: 30-09-09
Posts: 207

Re: CT in the morning,

Andy.....I think you have to be very cute as to what you tell the pupil leading upto the CT, as they can over perform and feel they will let you down.

Especially if they think you will loose your job.


That said id would consider some training. Get some advice from someone whos knows. Its worth it!

Brave to come on here and say it thou. Not many would.

Good point from Mr T you do have to be very carefull what you tell your pupils about the check test,I just told my pupil it
was just a quality assurance scheme by the DSA,and just drive as normal.
I would certainly consider getting further training from somebody regarding the C/T.
Don't leave it to your next check test to told by the S.E. that things still need improving.
Good luck on your next test and keep us posted.

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#18 21-10-10 08:44:20

AndyLawton
Verified Member
From: Chesterfield
Registered: 23-09-10
Posts: 68

Re: CT in the morning,

I only told the student it was an assessment of my teaching to make sure they were up to standards, but it was still just to much for him.
I've already spoken to 2 other instructors ( one had his CT after me on the same day and was graded 6) who I'm in contact with and they have both offered to help me with some advice, sit in on their lessons ect.
I'm not scared to admit my failings if in the long run it can help somebody else to perform better for their CT, educational. I know I'm a better instructor than the day showed all them 1st time passes can't be wrong can they, I'll go away restock and come back better for the experience.

thanks for the comments and help I appreciate the support.


Turnover is vanity   -    Profit is sanity

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#19 21-10-10 08:55:13

Aspyre
Member
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: CT in the morning,

Don't forget that someone for whom it just fell right on the day might not actually be any better than you!

In my opinion, your only obvious fault here (as someone said, only you and any trainer you take up with know otherwise on everythign else) is how you are beating yourself up over it as if it was your fault.

It was just a null and void test because the pupil went nuts. YOu couldn't have got a 6 if you'd have done anything under those circumstances - unless you had magically calmed the pupil down and made them perform!

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#20 21-10-10 09:01:37

AndyLawton
Verified Member
From: Chesterfield
Registered: 23-09-10
Posts: 68

Re: CT in the morning,

thanks Aspyre,

Its the frustration and dissapointment of being told unsatisfactory when their was so much more to be taken into consideration.


Turnover is vanity   -    Profit is sanity

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#21 21-10-10 11:32:10

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: CT in the morning,

firstly it was not a CT (as the paperwork says) but an educational I qualified in July 09 but they have only just around to me.

It is not an educational if it is over 12 months since you passed part 3.   DSA treat it as a graded checktest.

A checktest is NOT a normal lesson.  It's an exam and anyone who goes into any exam without proper preparation is asking for trouble.    It needs  a lot of thought and planning, and a suitable pupil, because, as you have discovered, they can make or break it too.

Role play for checktest is simply reverting to part 3.  Role play shouldn't be allowed for checktest because it's pretend,just like a mock test.

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#22 21-10-10 11:51:14

Hilary Hughes
Verified Member
From: Stockport, Manchester
Registered: 25-06-04
Posts: 1,232
Website

Re: CT in the morning,

Pick yourself up, resolve to move on then let it go.
Make sure you tell them what extra bits of training you've had at your next one.

Hilary.


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#23 21-10-10 12:27:22

m6northtoheaven
Verified Member
Registered: 04-01-09
Posts: 581

Re: CT in the morning,

Hi andy, I agree with you that the CT is fake, just like the pt 3 test.

I ain't done a ct yet and am looking forward to getting the so called dredded letter arriving on the doorstep. Some of the threads on here and what other instructors tell me about the CT makes me think I should dread the time coming.

I can't put on an act just to satisfy the grown ups (DSA). What I can do is carry out a lesson to the best of my ability with the knowledge that my customer (pupil) has received value for money and that they achieve their aim of passing their driving test and being safe beyond. As long as I know in myself that that is what i'm achieving then I don't care what the grown ups have to say about my CT outcome, whenever that may be.

The only downside is that if I can't put on a show good enough to satisfy the grown ups then they can take my badge off me and then thats the end.

Such a shame!

Good luck with your next one dude!

M6


The inclanation of the optic is as adequate as a twitch of the cranium like a quadraped divoid of its visionary capacity!

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#24 21-10-10 12:33:49

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: CT in the morning,

As long as I know in myself that that is what i'm achieving then I don't care what the grown ups have to say about my CT outcome, whenever that may be.

Actually you do care.  It isn't nice to be told you are crap, especially by someone who has never done the job themselves.  It does get to you.  And for a while, like waiting for the next date, it can affect your confidence on lessons. 

It's a total farce, and you only win if you can play the game.

I don't charge my pupils for a checktest lesson, and I give them another one free.  That's because they are helping me.   

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#25 21-10-10 13:19:11

Peter_Cary
Verified Member
Registered: 08-04-06
Posts: 1,193
Website

Re: CT in the morning,

Speaking personally here I hate Check Tests (doesn't everybody  smile ) but The DSA have to have some form of quality control in place and nothing really better has been suggested.

BUT....

As a Fleet Trainer, I cannot agree with you here Roadmaster

Role play for check test is simply reverting to part 3.  Role play shouldn't be allowed for check test because it's pretend, just like a mock test.

I am certainly not going to get a corporate client to be my guinea pig for two or more hours by the time to travel to the TC has been taken into consideration the examiner can see what part of the training he wants, mine told me did not want to see any classroom training at all just an assessment and remedial training on points found, (I have heard of some FT who have given a PowerPoint presentation for nearly the whole hour!!  wink )

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