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#1 10-06-08 19:55:56

Carlos Fandango
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Registered: 18-10-06
Posts: 29

Advanced driver...cheaper insurance??

Do any insurance companies offer cheaper insurance to drivers who have successfully completed an advanced driving course  and test?

Carlos Fandango

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10-06-08 19:55:56

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Re: Advanced driver...cheaper insurance??



#2 12-06-08 14:10:36

Carlos Fandango
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Registered: 18-10-06
Posts: 29

Re: Advanced driver...cheaper insurance??

I'll take that as a no then shall I  :?


This surely begs the question Why Not?

If advanced training is effective, a  trained driver should present a much lower risk to insurers?

Are there any up to date statistics published  on accident rates amongst " advanced" drivers?

Carlos

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#3 12-06-08 14:33:01

timmanwaringadi
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From: Devon
Registered: 29-08-06
Posts: 2,406
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Re: Advanced driver...cheaper insurance??

I was hoping someone would be able to help with this question too Carlos.

As far as I know though (old stats I read a couple of years ago - can't remember where) there's no advantage from an insurance point of view to having an advanced driver - they make pretty much the same amount of claims.

Advanced drivers should be a lower risk, but apparently many aren't.

Maybe advanced drivers are doing 3 times as much mileage, with only 1/3rd of the risk.

I do know that some of the insurance companies who work with the IAM offer a 10% discount for members, though the problem is similar to the one with Pass Plus - the insurers who offer discounts are often the more expensive ones in the first place. SAFED schemes can help fleet managers negotiate better deals, as can some of the other training schemes.

It may take a government based (DofT) scheme available for ALL drivers before the insurers look at this seriously.

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#4 12-06-08 15:20:07

Target
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From: Winchmore Hill North London
Registered: 17-01-05
Posts: 5,695
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Re: Advanced driver...cheaper insurance??

Echo what Tim has said.

When I passed Part 2 ( instructors driving test ) and bought a car, and the insurance companys could not give a stuff about the skills id received and the standard of driving i was now at. In fact I think the premium was something like £1000 for the year.

Most of the advanced drivers I talk to mentioned bringing the excess down but not the premium.

I guess the incentive is your own self belief. If training and completing an advanced driving course and putting into practice what you have learnt will probably keep you safer than your average driver, long term you will accumulate accident free driving.


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#5 14-06-08 20:02:44

ADI349
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From: East Yorkshire
Registered: 24-01-05
Posts: 193

Re: Advanced driver...cheaper insurance??

some companies do offer discounts to advanced drivers but you have to ring around, have a look on the IAM & RoSPA web sites you may get more info.  However like all discounts you will only qualify for 1 discount.


If you only do what you've always done, you will only achieve what you've always achieved

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#6 15-06-08 16:47:28

Gizmotime
Administrator
From: Bolton Lancashire
Registered: 05-04-04
Posts: 1,963

Re: Advanced driver...cheaper insurance??

The IAM do an Insurance policy with IAM Select, have you looked on their web page?? www.IAM.org.uk

Giz

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#7 16-06-08 16:55:30

kev elliott
Verified Member
Registered: 01-04-08
Posts: 53

Re: Advanced driver...cheaper insurance??

IA minsurance is now provided by Adlaide Insurance not IAM Select

Link to IAM Surety
http://www.iamsurety.com/iam-surety-n-ireland.php

This gives limited details of why they can offer discounts to IAM members based on reseach concluded in 2007.

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#8 17-06-08 09:32:40

Carlos Fandango
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Registered: 18-10-06
Posts: 29

Re: Advanced driver...cheaper insurance??

I must say I find this situation perplexing that in spite of the best efforts of the all
advanced driving training organisations ' advanced' drivers are statistically just as likely to be involved in a collision as any body else.

Is it the case that the insurance industry have not collated the relevant data ?

Or, that in the long term the extra training really makes no difference?

I know I'm a natural born cynic but if we really want to alter peoples attitude to driving, showing them a real financial advantage in terms of insurance costs is where I would start especially inlight of the general spiraling cost of runing any vehicle.


Carlos

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#9 17-06-08 23:33:31

keith-adi
Verified Member
From: wirral
Registered: 19-07-06
Posts: 830
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Re: Advanced driver...cheaper insurance??

would agree with whats been said. after passing pt 2 and renewing insurance the guy asked had i done any further qualies. believe or not mine did;t qualify    roll - iam did tho - so did rospa - i asked him what extra training he'd done - you can imagine the response? do it for yourself then get the financial credit later - i have 29 yrs no claims - ring me up when you match or beat me  big_smile


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#10 19-06-08 19:41:43

Carlos Fandango
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Registered: 18-10-06
Posts: 29

Re: Advanced driver...cheaper insurance??

I must confess to being a bit surprise at the lack of response to this topic ( no offence to the people that did )

One has to conclude that if insurance companies see no statistical advantage to advanced training then it is largely failing to deliver, and should may be take a look at it's self.

I personally think that training would be better served if there was one cut and dried version of what advanced driving should constitute given proper funding and advertising by government.

The present situation seems to lead to a lot of posturing and one up manship ( you only need to look at this forum  :evil:) by the membership of the respective organisations.

Even as someone involved in the driver training industry I find all this rather puerile , so no wonder young drivers couldn't give a monkeys !

Whilst working as an ADI I always try and encourage my newly qualified pupils to continue their learning by undertaking further training with one of the advanced organisations but they just don't seem interested.

There is no easy answer but if the status quo remains as it is I don't see the situation improving.



Yours despondently,


Carlos

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#11 20-06-08 16:39:05

copone
Verified Member
From: Co. Durham
Registered: 03-07-05
Posts: 89

Re: Advanced driver...cheaper insurance??

It is quite obvious that those drivers don't better themselves, is because they 'think' they are good, or, are not interested in being a much safer driver. I know some driving instructors who do take advanced driving tests and cannot reach the highest grade, but still deliver 'advance driving'. It is a pity that all driving instructors are not assessed every couple of years to make sure their standards are not slipping. On the other hand their are some good instructors out there, and also do get re - tested at least every 3 years, and want to keep their standards high. Advanced tuition/driving does work, but only if the individual wants it too. Attitude is a very hard thing to change.


ADI. Class 1 Police Advanced. HGV Class 1. Member of IAM AND DIA. Rospa Gold. National Diploma for Advanced Instruction. and Examiner. IAM fleet trainer. Safed trainer.

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#12 20-06-08 17:35:51

kev elliott
Verified Member
Registered: 01-04-08
Posts: 53

Re: Advanced driver...cheaper insurance??

I must confess to being a bit surprise at the lack of response to this topic ( no offence to the people that did )

One has to conclude that if insurance companies see no statistical advantage to advanced training then it is largely failing to deliver, and should may be take a look at it's self.

I personally think that training would be better served if there was one cut and dried version of what advanced driving should constitute given proper funding and advertising by government.

The present situation seems to lead to a lot of posturing and one up manship ( you only need to look at this forum  :evil:) by the membership of the respective organisations.

Even as someone involved in the driver training industry I find all this rather puerile , so no wonder young drivers couldn't give a monkeys !

Yours despondently,


Carlos

Carlos - The information is there if you look for it! - Took a while to find it but as you see the link below is a study that appears to have been of a size and format that is statistically significant. Without getting into the techy stuff of population sampling and power of tests which is a very good cure for insomnia.

http://bura.brunel.ac.uk/bitstream/2438 … _et_al.pdf

The research was conducted at the request of the IAM but as far as i can seee it was independant, If you can find a similar excercise for the  DIA test a comparison would be interesting.

I will be interested to hear what your views are on the link above, unsually free so no excuses not to have a look!


Have you seen the latest consulatation on Learning to Drive from the DSA - The exact point that you raised about having a single definition of what "advanced driving", whatever that means,  should be.

What is your veiw - Should it be just Driving test standard or should there be more to it?

I know I have asked a lot of questions and given a you a dry document to read and you are despondent but you did ask smile   

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#13 21-06-08 07:16:56

Carlos Fandango
Verified Member
Registered: 18-10-06
Posts: 29

Re: Advanced driver...cheaper insurance??

Thanks for that Kev......I think........boy that's not the greatest bed time read I've ever had  big_smile

I never really doubted that advanced driver training could be measured to show a tangable improvement, however the question still remains as to why this improvement does not translate in to a lower accident risk ?


As for the DSA's " consultation " the opening line under improved tests reads as follows:

"The driving test, which checks if a learner is ready to drive alone, is only as good as the learning and training that leads up to it" 

Personally, I would disagree right there, as in the real world I find the opposite to be  more the case, the training and learning is only as good as the standard required to pass the test.


However, let's go with their premise for a moment and skip forward to the " Better Information" paragraph

" we also want to give instructors a greater stake in their pupils performance, for example, learners acquiring a signed 'test ready certificate' before they can go go for their practical test, this might be provided by an instructor, or a parent if they are teaching their children to drive"

So whilst their opening statement to me is tacitly implying that poor standards of driving amongst newly qualified drivers is really down to below parr instructing technique and that we instructors need to pull are collective socks up, it will also be OK for a completely unqualified person to declare their little angel as test ready.........DUH????????

I have only been in the instructing game for two and a bit years so wouldn't claim to be any sort of sage like  expert but, if the DSA want to  press ahead with making radical improvements to the teaching and learning process, ( something I am whole heartedly behind ) I think an element of compulsory professional tuition  and evaluation is a must.

We could discuss the various merits of different formats for the new test but to me that's only half the problem we are facing.

There needs to be a much more punitive system in place to stop the atrocious driving on display by a large part of the driving public.

No political party is about to cut their own throats by "grasping the nettle" so any changes made to the test whilst very well intentioned will I fear not really improve the situation to any great extent, and young impressionable drivers will follow the example of the aggressive, macho, tossers  all instructors have to endure on a daily basis.

Have to go out and star work now, sorry if this has been a bit of a rant   roll

Carlos



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#14 21-06-08 10:46:06

kev elliott
Verified Member
Registered: 01-04-08
Posts: 53

Re: Advanced driver...cheaper insurance??

Carlos,
The whole concepts of tests leads to meeting a predetermined standard - particularly if it is scored by tick boxes which is a quantitative measure as in how many times did you do XY or Z . The problem as I see it that it would be impossible to maintain a level of consistency across the country that is expected if this was changed significantly towards a more qualitative judgement of looking at the whole drive giving the examiner the freedom to explore the candidates strong points and weak points as they see fit. For example if someone drives to a generally excellent standard but for some reason they foul up on a manoeuvre and fail to complete it successfully BUT DO IT SAFELY, should this result in a fail?

The other option is with the increasing complexity of the driving task perhaps a better approach than having a fixed target then perhaps a Continuous improvement should be adopted so over time the test standard changes to reflect the changing needs of drivers and improvements in technology.

Just thinking off the cuff there is cruise control, traction control, EBA, automatic parking brakes, flappy paddle gear boxes, zip merging, motorway driving and variable speed limits, foreign drivers, Sat Navs  and not least improvements in car performance.   

I am not saying that all pupils need to have access to these as this is not practical but if the opportunity presents itself then these should be incorporated - Some instructors already cover these already before any one says they already do.

If the DSA is committed to improving standards then a static test is not the answer, yes it will make our jobs harder maybe, but the advantage will be that each generation of drivers has to reach a higher standard. When the drivers who for whatever reason lose their license, then there has to be an automatic retest with no exceptions   meaning that they have to modify their driving to meet the higher standards, and each time they are banned it gets harder and harder to pass.

This may make the unlicensed driver more attractive so the penalties for that also need to be more severe, Confiscation of vehicle unless stolen with a minimum fine collected via the tax system would be one approach. 

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#15 21-06-08 14:16:36

Carlos Fandango
Verified Member
Registered: 18-10-06
Posts: 29

Re: Advanced driver...cheaper insurance??

Kev,

I whole heartedly agree with you.

Carlos

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#16 07-06-10 09:52:44

asroxx@yahoo.com
Member
Registered: 03-06-10
Posts: 49
Website

Re: Advanced driver...cheaper insurance??

Adrian Flux is one of th companies who give discounts for young drivers

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#17 07-06-10 12:08:20

on board training
Guest

Re: Advanced driver...cheaper insurance??

Hi,

IAM Surety for 19yr olds upwards
Adrian Flux for any age.

I think it may be questionable how much the discount is actually worth although advanced driving should be looked on for the overall benefits and the financial should come way down the list - can you put a price on it if it saves a serious or fatal accident?
Brian


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#18 07-07-10 20:43:31

Leprechaun
Member
Registered: 19-03-06
Posts: 264

Re: Advanced driver...cheaper insurance??

IA minsurance is now provided by Adlaide Insurance not IAM Select

Link to IAM Surety
http://www.iamsurety.com/iam-surety-n-ireland.php

This gives limited details of why they can offer discounts to IAM members based on reseach concluded in 2007.

I stopped being an active member of my IAM group a few years ago but i have kept up my subscriptions to HQ cos for the last 2 years i've found IAM surety to be the cheapest for me - after shopping round lots of companies. In fact this year i had got a cheaper quote but when i told IAM Surety they were able to better their originsl quote so they were cheaper again smile

I just hope when everything's sorted out with my crash that they are still the cheapest next year. The crash WASN'T my fault but i had a claim in progress to repair some previous vandalism damage - the work hadn't been done and i've got GAP insurance so i've now got 3 different insurance companies fighting between themselves!!

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