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#1 09-01-10 03:05:13

chriso
Member
Registered: 30-10-09
Posts: 9

bay park in new fiesta

hi am struggling with bay parking i keep ending up in middle of two bays and keep forgeting my ref point is the ref point in middle of car door  the car is a fiesta my instructor is helping me but with this wether iv not practised with her much lately thanks for your help

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09-01-10 03:05:13

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Re: bay park in new fiesta




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#2 09-01-10 20:17:02

Madhatter
Verified Member
Registered: 19-12-08
Posts: 132

Re: bay park in new fiesta

Hi Chriso,
buy a dry wipe marker (the kind you use to write on whiteboards - not the permanent kind!! wink) and draw your line on the window or where I have my seat the line of the bay I have as my initial ref. point is in line with my seatbelt clip.

If you use the same system I teach and it sounds like you do...Chances are you are steering at the wrong rate, the rate of your steering is related to the distance you will travel down the bays - too quick and you'll end up too high, too slow and you'll end up too far down.

Also, pause as your rear wheels enter the bay this is the point at which you should be able to see the line in the left mirror and that will tell you whether you are on track or not.

Good luck.
Tim


Tim Moran - ADI Cornwall - www.timmoranschoolofmotoring.co.uk

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#3 10-01-10 13:00:01

Disky
Verified Member
From: Central Scotland
Registered: 10-03-05
Posts: 1,333
Website

Re: bay park in new fiesta

i have the same car, most of mine find their own way to do it, but some use the speaker on the door when it lines up with the white line. but i haste,,, only some find that useful/.

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#4 10-01-10 13:47:42

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: bay park in new fiesta

As soon as you realise it's going wrong, pull forward & correct it - it doesn't have to be done in one go!

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#5 07-06-10 12:41:41

peakdrivertraining
Member
Registered: 06-06-10
Posts: 17
Website

Re: bay park in new fiesta

dont use reference points use your mirrors its what they are there for, if you are going right use the right mirror to ensure the right rear wheel is in once you know this is in check the left mirror to make sure the left rear wheel is in, if not adjust your steering to get both in, once in straighten car up in bay and finish

www.peakdrivertraining.co.uk

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#6 07-06-10 15:38:38

KevB
Verified Member
From: Amesbury
Registered: 06-06-08
Posts: 1,725
Website

Re: bay park in new fiesta

dont use reference points use your mirrors its what they are there for, if you are going right use the right mirror to ensure the right rear wheel is in once you know this is in check the left mirror to make sure the left rear wheel is in, if not adjust your steering to get both in, once in straighten car up in bay and finish

www.peakdrivertraining.co.uk

I'm guessing you don't drive a fiesta smile

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#7 07-06-10 15:42:37

KevB
Verified Member
From: Amesbury
Registered: 06-06-08
Posts: 1,725
Website

Re: bay park in new fiesta

hi am struggling with bay parking i keep ending up in middle of two bays and keep forgeting my ref point is the ref point in middle of car door  the car is a fiesta my instructor is helping me but with this wether iv not practised with her much lately thanks for your help

Hi Chriso.
Before doing any reversing. PAUSE. Run through it in your mind first. Talk yourself through doing it if you like, that way your instructor will also spot if you are missing something out.

When you are happy you can do it in your mind, prepare the car and do it. smile

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#8 07-06-10 17:39:02

peakdrivertraining
Member
Registered: 06-06-10
Posts: 17
Website

Re: bay park in new fiesta

I'm guessing you don't drive a fiesta smile
[/quote]

yes i do drive a new fiesta and still its a moot point reference points are a waste of time how many students do we ever have who go out and buy the exact same car and park into the same bays they practice in? arent we teaching studnets how to drive not how to reverse our car into the test centre car parks only? if they use reference points in our car they only know how to park in our car in those car parks betting this contributes to why a hell of a lot of qualified drivers cant park to save their lives.

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#9 07-06-10 19:29:28

bellydancer
Member
Registered: 06-09-09
Posts: 43

Re: bay park in new fiesta

I am a newly qualified driver and would agree with Peakdriver training that I can't baypark to save my life sad
what was learnt in lesson was fine, but normally in empty carparks.....

in real life, you have to park in a crowded supermarket or work carpark , or in a narrow street, jammed with a whole row of cars and there is just that one space which looks like one can just about squeeze the car in ...... and then I will have thoughts like will I be able to do a parallelpark before another car comes through  neutral and what if the other car waits the whole day and I still can'tget my car in that space  :oops:    and what if after that I can't get it out because I lack the skill with just a couple of inches of space between the front and back of my car and the ones in front and back of mine......

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#10 07-06-10 20:52:46

KevB
Verified Member
From: Amesbury
Registered: 06-06-08
Posts: 1,725
Website

Re: bay park in new fiesta

Hi Bellydancer.

What you describe is sadly all too familiar to many of the experienced and consciencous instructors that frequent this forum.

With full and due respect to you, but it appears you were the product of a lesser skilled instructor.

My clients are fully confident to be face forward in a space in any car park, and reverse into any other space anywhere in the car park, around obstacles, corners, trees anything, before I allow them anywhere near a test centre.

Of course, it's not appropriate to reverse around car parks like that under normal circumstances, but all my clients do get tasked to be able to reverse into very small spaces and from all angles and distances, including around obstacles.

How? because they understand how the car will react to changes in control, can identify when the car is not doing what they want and how to correct it and do not rely on a fixed method.

It is true that many instructors teach how to bay park by a set routine. Stop here, turn here, straighten here etc. and if the learner can park like that, the instructor moves the lesson on.
That doesn't mean the learner can reverse and park, or understands what they are doing.
This appears to be how you were taught.

However, the more able and conscientious instructors do try to teach reversing and not just a way to do each of the manouevres on the test.

Finally, be wary of following just one persons guidance on forums. They may be totally bogus, or as in Peakdrivertrainings case, come with an unproven record and relatively new to the industry.

To help you gain confidence with your reversing, invest in a couple of sessions with another instructor that is willing to show you how to reverse from any location into any other location with the confidence of being able to do so in the tightest of spaces.

Congratulations on passing your test, and I hope you enjoy your new found freedom and learning how to drive better and safer all the time smile

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#11 07-06-10 21:15:31

peakdrivertraining
Member
Registered: 06-06-10
Posts: 17
Website

Re: bay park in new fiesta

''It is true that many instructors teach how to bay park by a set routine. Stop here, turn here, straighten here etc. and if the learner can park like that, the instructor moves the lesson on.
That doesn't mean the learner can reverse and park, or understands what they are doing.
This appears to be how you were taught.''

cheers for the slating, but the section i have quoted is exactly what i what i was saying about not using reference points and not teaching to do bay park perfectly in one car in one car parking space in an empty car park.
and yes i am new to driving instruction however if i am teaching on the same principles you state above surely you should approve of new instructors trying to raise the standard of driving and instruction.

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#12 07-06-10 21:48:23

KevB
Verified Member
From: Amesbury
Registered: 06-06-08
Posts: 1,725
Website

Re: bay park in new fiesta

Hi Sam.
The part in red was my concern.

dont use reference points use your mirrors its what they are there for, if you are going right use the right mirror to ensure the right rear wheel is in once you know this is in check the left mirror to make sure the left rear wheel is in, if not adjust your steering to get both in, once in straighten car up in bay and finish

With many cars, including the fiesta, depending on the approach angle/turning circle applied, checking wether the wheels are going to enter the bay space is required earlier than when 1 or the other has already actually entered it.

for arguments sake, entering a typical sized bay from an approach of lets say 50 degrees and only applying steering when the wheel enters the bay may well result in the vehicle finsishing too close or over the opposite bay line, due to the turning circle of the vehicle.

Regards, Kev.

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#13 07-06-10 21:54:36

peakdrivertraining
Member
Registered: 06-06-10
Posts: 17
Website

Re: bay park in new fiesta

sorry my mistake i am not very good at explaining a point in writing, i was trying to get across learning how to judge whether the back wheels were going to end up inside, rather than what i actually wrote.

i strongly believe that teaching students not only how to park they must understand how they have done it and why the car has ended up there and what they need to be looking for to ensure it can be done anywhere in any car

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#14 07-06-10 22:15:17

KevB
Verified Member
From: Amesbury
Registered: 06-06-08
Posts: 1,725
Website

Re: bay park in new fiesta

You'll not see me disagreeing with that sentiment smile

But it is important to consider that this part of the forum is open to all to view, and the original question was posed by a learner.

Accuracy in guidance is of great benift to them, especially in the written word, which can easily be interpreted in a way the writer didn't intend.

Red means stop -V's- Red means "must not proceed beyond the stopline".

Green means go -V's- Green means "may proceed beyond the stopline if safe and clear to do so"

Change up the gears when the engine "tells you"  -V's- change up the gears if  the engine "tells you" and you are not being overtaken and you can see far enough ahead and know you won't need to reduce your speed shortly.

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#15 08-06-10 06:21:25

may
Verified Member
From: co.durham
Registered: 30-11-07
Posts: 199

Re: bay park in new fiesta

For bay park at the start I always do it to the right first so that my pupils can see exactly where the wheels are going. I like to use the reference point, when mirrors are in line with the white line full lock. It helps my pupils LOOK for things that will help them and also helps them get their judgement.

reference points are really helpful in the early stages, it allows pupils to get their own judgement. some won't some will become focused on them others won't need them.

At the moment my husband is on late shift so his car is parked at the bottom of the car park so I have been using that to help them understand bay parking and what its like to do real life parking. Its a shame I can't do it all the time but people are really fussy about us parking next to their cars.

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#16 16-12-10 21:13:31

email@passwithjohn.co.uk
Verified Member
From: Macclesfield
Registered: 15-02-08
Posts: 26
Website

Re: bay park in new fiesta

There is so many way's to do a bay park.........could someone tell me why it is wrong to teach someone to reverse to pass a test from the start........... why would we need to show them a diffrant way as long as they can do it...........??


If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!

Approved Driving Instructor
www.passwithjohn.co.uk/drivinglessonsstockport.html
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#17 16-12-10 21:46:10

peakdrivertraining
Member
Registered: 06-06-10
Posts: 17
Website

Re: bay park in new fiesta

Yes there are so many ways the point I was making is teach them HOW to park the car and what they are looking for to know that it will work and how to correct and adjust not to learn how to park using the 'when your hand is in line with that White line or when that hedge in the test centre car park is in your back mirror etc steer etc' because thats all well and good in my fiesta but if I did it in my personal car I would end up parked on top of the car in the next bay! It's the difference between teaching the student how to realise by looking at wheels on the floor etc where the back end is going to end up and adjust before it gets there, rather than a set routine for your car! After all aren't we teaching driving skills for life not for 38 minutes!

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#18 16-12-10 22:12:03

email@passwithjohn.co.uk
Verified Member
From: Macclesfield
Registered: 15-02-08
Posts: 26
Website

Re: bay park in new fiesta

Then you should teach them how to do it in any car the refrence point on any car is the same for bay park using rear wheele arch when it sit's on the line or when it sit on the side of the car your reversing too.......


If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!

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#19 17-12-10 19:24:53

Aspyre
Member
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: bay park in new fiesta

That's not strictly true.

However you teach them, they will have to adjust it for the car they are driving if it is different to the one they learned and took their test in.

If someone is taught to park using a specific reference point, all they have to do is work out what the new reference point is in any car they subsequently drive.

If someone is taught to guide the car in between the lines then they need to learn the new handling characteristics of any car they do it in subsequently.

The reason is - as I've said before - EVERYONE uses reference points. Learners just have to concentrate on them in a little more detail.

You try reversing into a bay with your eyes shut. Then you'll learn how important it is to be able to reference your position with the lines.

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#20 17-12-10 19:40:51

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: bay park in new fiesta

I am not an ADI but I have taught those who found it virtually impossible to do a reverse bay park with this method -

For this we will assume the bay is on the left and there are bays on the right

Keep car close to left and stop car when centre pillar is about in the middle of the empty bay in which the driver intends to go

That stops anyone else getting into the bay

Move forward and steer hard right at the same time but not so the car goes into or too near anyy of the bays on the right

Now reverse and steer hard left at the same time

Every time the car ends up with the back wheels nicely going into the bay

Just got to get the front wheels lined up in time is all that is left to do


Dunno if this is acceptable for DSA or not?


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#21 17-12-10 20:57:42

Aspyre
Member
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: bay park in new fiesta

The DSA don't give two hoots how it or any other manoeuvre is done as long as it is safe and in control (just look at the driving test report sheet to see what they are looking for).

You just have to make sure that if you use a fixed point method you explain that it will perhaps be a different fixed point in a different model of car, although it isn't as different as some people might think in many modern cars.

Well, you don't have to explain that... but if an ADI is doing their job properly they really ought to lol

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#22 19-12-10 09:45:31

email@passwithjohn.co.uk
Verified Member
From: Macclesfield
Registered: 15-02-08
Posts: 26
Website

Re: bay park in new fiesta

I've been a ADI for over 8 years i teach all my manoeuvres and i tell them to use the same reference points in there car (i drive a Mini) the only problem i find is if they dont have power steering i can't remember the last time i lost a test though there manoeuvre


If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!

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www.passwithjohn.co.uk/drivinglessonsstockport.html
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#23 18-01-11 21:25:25

HewittsDriving
Member
Registered: 16-01-11
Posts: 24
Website

Re: bay park in new fiesta

Hi, I used to teach people to find a reference point somewhere along the door, then use a dry wipe marker to Mark their point. This is a bad idea because not only do you end up with more lines on your door than a zebra convention, but your pupils may still use other pupils markers.
A pupil needs to have an idea when to turn, I get them to turn slightly earlier so that they can start taking the steer off and learning to judge how much steer to use, remember to steer the same way that you want your back end to go.


Driving lessons in Leeds, Wakefield, Dewsbury and Batley.
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