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#1 15-01-10 12:48:35

philipt
Member
Registered: 05-01-10
Posts: 2

Too Fast approaching Junction/Roundabout

I would welcome some advice on how to apply the core competencies in a situation where the pupil repeatedly speeds up excessively in between junctions and/or roundabouts and then slows down using firm braking when approaching the junction/roundabout, often coming to a stop at the junction

I am aware of the application of the "You must be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear," but the reply from the pupil may well be that he/she is able to stop in time.

I am also aware that if necessary you can slow them down by saying "Cover the brake" should the need arise but I am struggling to work out an appropriate Q&A to deal with the situation. I need to be able to do more than just tell them, but to get them to understand.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Thank you

Philip

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15-01-10 12:48:35

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Re: Too Fast approaching Junction/Roundabout




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#2 15-01-10 13:08:07

JonnyG
Verified Member
From: Belfast
Registered: 13-01-05
Posts: 742
Website

Re: Too Fast approaching Junction/Roundabout

I would q&a in relation to what traffic they can see, which they may need to give way to.  It hopefully will lead them to realise that in order to make effective observations and judgements at junctions (particularly T-Junctions) they need to reduce speed earlier.

If the problem occurs at roundabouts I have a useful exercise I do with my pupils. I dont have time right now to explain the exercise in detail, but may do it later.

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#3 21-01-10 06:04:08

michelle1970
Verified Member
Registered: 29-09-09
Posts: 32

Re: Too Fast approaching Junction/Roundabout

If a pupil is approaching a junction too fast, are they going to be able to stop in time if someone comes flying up and cuts the corner? What if a child riding a bike comes round the corner and goes straight across the road?

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#4 21-01-10 17:33:08

J450n
Member
From: North London
Registered: 13-01-10
Posts: 25

Re: Too Fast approaching Junction/Roundabout

If your applying core comps then once the fault has been identified (speeding up to much; braking late etc) then the next question I would ask is WHY! That way you can analyse.


There is no such word as can't

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#5 05-02-10 12:30:38

martin Williams
Verified Member
Registered: 26-06-09
Posts: 1,144

Re: Too Fast approaching Junction/Roundabout

When doing Q and A explain that if there is a following car they might not realise that you are going to brake sharply. Then get them to conclude it could end in a rear end shunt. I think thats the main reason of danger approaching to fast also they could overshoot the give way line and it gives you less time to do observations.
I'm sure theres more.

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#6 05-02-10 13:55:52

driver69
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Re: Too Fast approaching Junction/Roundabout

Come on Jonny, spill the beans about the useful excercise at the roundabouts  smile I know you told me a while ago but have forgotten details and might be useful to others as well.


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#7 05-02-10 20:38:55

DH
Member
Registered: 04-01-10
Posts: 154

Re: Too Fast approaching Junction/Roundabout

pupil repeatedly speeds up excessively in between junctions and/or roundabouts and then slows down using firm braking when approaching the junction/roundabout, often coming to a stop at the junction

You've identified the fault(s).

Mention it to the pupil.

Ask them why they speed up so much between hazards/Look for any reasons they might speed up (have they got tailgating traffic/Are they nervous about junctions/Do they think they have to get right up to the speed limit/Has a friend failed a test for lack of progress).

When you've worked out between you WHY they do it the remedy will follow from that.

Realistically, with a bog standard pupil the screaming to a halt fault will come from the speeding up excessively fault. Not always, but most of the time.

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#8 05-02-10 21:20:05

KevB
Verified Member
From: Amesbury
Registered: 06-06-08
Posts: 1,725
Website

Re: Too Fast approaching Junction/Roundabout

demo drive, then explain benifits of engine braking, additional fuel costs associated with wasted gas whenever we brake, so reduce the amount of braking by coming of the gas early.

harsh/late braking by him will invite late braking by the driver behind, who may not have a car that can stop the same as his can.

late braking means his speed is high on the final approach to the hazard or junction, and this may un-nerve other road users in the vicinty, causing them to over react if they think he is going to overshoot.

It's causing your bad back to go into spasm every time he brakes hard. And it REALLY hurts. So much, that you may have to terminate the lesson early..... at his expense.

you don't take kindly to careless or reckless driving, and the late braking IS careless and inconsiderate, so you may have to review your options regarding training him to be a good competant and careful driver.

you dont like your car being abused in that way, so don't accept it. If he persists, you will have no option but to stop him driving your car, because you cannot afford the repair bills when parts wear out earlier than necassary.

the harsher he plans to brake, the less additional braking ability is available if circumstances change.

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#9 05-02-10 21:31:45

DH
Member
Registered: 04-01-10
Posts: 154

Re: Too Fast approaching Junction/Roundabout

Just don't tell him all that at once.  big_smile big_smile

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#10 06-02-10 01:16:02

JonnyG
Verified Member
From: Belfast
Registered: 13-01-05
Posts: 742
Website

Re: Too Fast approaching Junction/Roundabout

Come on Jonny, spill the beans about the useful excercise at the roundabouts  smile I know you told me a while ago but have forgotten details and might be useful to others as well.

ok..I had to look back over my previous posts to find this.


When doing my part 3 training on Hesitancy, the usual conversation about being prepared early on approach to roundabouts is what is generally accepted to be helpful. Ive still found that it doesnt help pupils emerge on roundabouts.

Ive came up with a solution for this problem...  I take about half a lesson where I can find 2 or 3 roundabouts quite close together and play a game with them.
The rules are-
"As we approach these roundabouts, I want you to be prepared for me to ask a question. I'm going to say "Going or Staying?" you then have 3 seconds to give me your answer. Once you have decided then you commit yourself to that answer.
My job is to keep us safe.
I ask the question at about 5 car lengths.
Usually the first couple they stay, mainly because they weren't at the correct speed or gear to be able to decide.
Then eventually they get the idea that they need to give themselves more time to answer,  and 8/10 times they go.
Once they get the hang of it I then I change the rules slightly and get them to ask themselves the question... Job done. 
Also add if they need to stay they have 3 seconds to find a car and follow it.   

How its done...

On the first approach I tell them where they will be going well in advance, then say that I'm gonna ask the question.

I watch them do mirrors and signal, get their lane and speed. (At this point if they are having difficulty on roundabouts they wont be in the correct gear or looking at the traffic.)     

At around 5or6 car lengths from the roundabout I ask them to make their decision then countdown 3.2. 1.   

Now if they cant decide by 3or4 car lengths then the decision has gotta be stay.     

After a couple of tries they realise they need to be in gear and have clutch back up before i ask the question. (This is when the penny drops for them)
Then they find themselves being able to look earlier and even adjust their speed to be able to emerge.   

Sometimes they do get it wrong, but I have found that its usually when they "say" they are staying, but in fact will be able to go. (They usually catch on about the wrong decision about 2 car lengths away, and that's safe enough for them to adjust their speed)   

Its almost like a game of chicken... I dare you to emerge safely onto the roundabout...it gets them in gear early and looking early.     
Ive done this now for a few years and it usually gets them confident in a few lessons.

The same technique can be used at T-Junctions, oly the decision cant be made just as early, because of the lack of visibility.

I maybe should get an in car video system recording the exercise to see it working properly.

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#11 06-02-10 03:18:23

Zipper
Verified Member
From: Darwin, Northern Territory Aus
Registered: 20-08-04
Posts: 2,694
Website

Re: Too Fast approaching Junction/Roundabout

I put a page up on my website and sometimes direct "difficult" students to it, although only the students who are mature in their mind will actually look at it and benefit.

Then on the next lesson I go over the 3 steps and talk them through it.
It often works, but those who don't heed the excellent advice given above probably wouldn't bother with this either.

Although late braking is mainly a judgement thing, driver attitute (often developed from looking at family member's driving styles) will come into it too.
An Occupational Therapist suggested that I hold a "bobble head doll" on the dash so they have an idea how they are doing in regards to smoothness.
I don't want to put a glass of water on the dash like I've been told coach-driver assessers do, so where do buy a bobble-doll?

Interesting post above from JohnnyG

http://www.drivingnt.com/tips/braking.html


Zipper ("G'Day Mate!")
I'm not 65! I'm only $59.95+tax
www.drivingnt.com

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