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#1 03-02-10 08:37:20

judy_83
Member
Registered: 23-11-09
Posts: 23

Not really a question

Why is it when a student is having a brain fart and i've not seen it coming that there is always an adi up the road watching the whole thing!  lol. 

Am sure adi's notice when there is a new car on the road and that it's someone on a pink.  Spill the beans guys, do you all sit in the tc having a chuckle about what we get up to????  Be honest now!!

Judy

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03-02-10 08:37:20

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Re: Not really a question



#2 03-02-10 08:58:45

TDW
Member
From: Yorkshire
Registered: 08-05-09
Posts: 84

Re: Not really a question

Well the funny thing is, we all make slight mistakes, it just happens sometimes when no one is watching. Pupils will always do things that you don't always expect. They all have brain farts and sometimes the worst ones are those nearer to test standard, they become a little complacent and make a mistake. I don't think I have ever stood in a TC and commented on a Pink badge holders' instruction, it wouldn't be right. Remember it is experience for you too. You will see other instructors do some terrible things but you must learn from it.

As I said, we all make mistakes and anyone who says otherwise is either a liar or someone who doesn't let the pupil drive..... It makes you stronger as an instructor because you will remember that and prepare for it next time.

I was out on a lesson a few weeks back and my pupil (quite advanced) stalled in the centre of a small set of traffic lights, while waiting to turn right. The other lights changed and a people carrier Taxi pulled right up to my car door from the left to go straight ahead and he must have gone on the amber....... He beeped at us, flashed his lights and used hand gestures, which does nothing for the pupils nerves. I told the pupil to get on with it as quickly as possible but without rushing to find the bite. We moved off and pulled over for the idiot to pass (pupils was shaken up). A week or so after this, the same taxi driver approached a jnc too fast and crossed a give way line and we had to swerve to avoid him (different pupil) I made sure that he knew he'd done wrong.......what goes around.


Things fall to pieces so that other things can fall into place.

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#3 03-02-10 08:59:46

TDW
Member
From: Yorkshire
Registered: 08-05-09
Posts: 84

Re: Not really a question

By the way Judy, what was the brain fart incident? Maybe we can help.


Things fall to pieces so that other things can fall into place.

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#4 03-02-10 09:02:36

Aspyre
Member
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: Not really a question

Not really (pay much attention to new cars that is).

If we (me and a ppl) get stopped by someone doing a TIR, or if we're parked and there is someone doing a reverse in front of us, then we might analyse what they are doing but we don't give two hoots about whos directing it.

The only time another ADI/learner car becomes the target of annoyance or criticism is if they do something wrong which they could have prevented if the ADI was doing their job (or in fact which they did deliberately or without any thought for other)............ such as stealing (or trying to steal) a corner when you are just talking a ppl through what you want them to do (and especialy when they pull up to reverse when you are just around the corner ready to give it another try), stopping right behind when you want to do a TIR, using the bay right next to you when you are doing bay park, cutting in late in lane merges, breaking the speed limit, etc.......

Theres a school of thought that says you should let ppls make mistakes....... well, if someone lets their ppl pull out in front of cars on roundabouts or on a junction (especialy another ppl), or break the limit causing problems for me or others........ they ARE doing their jobs wrong.

Slight mistakes are one thing....... when they haven't got a clue it is a diffrent matter entirely tongue

I wouldn't worry.. If you're not doing that your doing OK.

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#5 03-02-10 09:06:51

TDW
Member
From: Yorkshire
Registered: 08-05-09
Posts: 84

Re: Not really a question

I think Aspyre has it on the head there, we do have to let them make mistakes but obviously nothing that will endanger other peeps.


Things fall to pieces so that other things can fall into place.

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#6 03-02-10 12:05:59

Luchell
Verified Member
From: Salisbury
Registered: 12-06-07
Posts: 1,661

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#7 03-02-10 16:07:31

TDW
Member
From: Yorkshire
Registered: 08-05-09
Posts: 84

Re: Not really a question

Well Judy, if it's any consolation to you, I hadone of these moments today and I nearly kicked myself for it.

Pupil has test in a couple of weeks so decent driver, we pull up at traffic lights to turn right (not massive clearance on our left so others may have to wait behind us. I ask the pupil, "where are you going to wait when the lights change"? He points out the corrrect position and then the lights change, he moves forward but only very slowly, crosses white line and just as I am reminding him to watch the repeater light.....pffft, he stalls it. Traffic still moving through lights so all is good, he goes to restart and forgets clutch, car chugs forward a little cos it's in gear. pffft stalls again, by which time lights have gone amber but still the cars come through, "get ready to go I say". He stalls again and goes, "Oh @?#*" but doesn't do anything about it...... "RESTART WILL YOU, we NEED to move". "Oh he says, ok". Puts handbrake on and takes it out of gear and restarts........ SO I told him to wait because it's a small but busy set of lights and by this time the other racing drivers have set off, our nose is just peeping past the kerb line....... Who comes past and smirks while shaking his head? One of my mates who is also an instructor. I am gonna have to take a verbal beating for that one in the TC when I bump into him.

So there you go, we do it more than you think, but sometimes the pupil makes a mug of us.


Things fall to pieces so that other things can fall into place.

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#8 03-02-10 16:22:56

judy_83
Member
Registered: 23-11-09
Posts: 23

Re: Not really a question

Thanks guys and girls.

Well TDW, that story was spookily similar to my situation.  Rt lane at tl waiting to turn, traffic clears I prompt to give student a nudge she brings clutch up too fast and stalls it.  Not a problem i say, handbrake on, into neutral, start engine find your bite and before i can say gently with the clutch she yanks her foot off and stalls again.  Third time am trying desperately to keep my cool and talk her through it when I realise the lights have gone red.  There's nothing we can do, stuck in middle of road, lights have changed but we're stopping the other traffic.  Can't go back, had to go!  Well i'll be blowed if when we finally made that right turn there was an adi with pupil at the lights waiting to turn right.  I took look one look at him and he was smiling, shaking his head and wiping his brow.  I could have died, but instead gave him a smile and a wave on the way past!  lol

I swear I aged 5 years that day!

Judy

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#9 03-02-10 16:37:32

TDW
Member
From: Yorkshire
Registered: 08-05-09
Posts: 84

Re: Not really a question

Well, he will have done it too. Mistakes aren't exclusive to Pink badge holders you know. I generally get them to go, because technically you are causing an obstruction but hey ho, these pupils are sent to try us.

In future though with a less experienced pupil, you could always do the clutch for them, I have in the past. However when they get near test standard they need to know what to do on test, although in hindsight today I think that pupils brain didn't just fart, it deficated all over my reputation......!!!!  :angel:


Things fall to pieces so that other things can fall into place.

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#10 03-02-10 17:06:24

c-way
Verified Member
From: Peterborough
Registered: 03-10-06
Posts: 1,170
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Re: Not really a question

I have had a good few those episodes in my time, it's generally a stall at the most inconvenient time and made worse when the restart involves TDW's example of bouncing forward like tigger on a bad day, mine generally happen when an examiner is going past on a test and grins   roll  And no I don't discuss trainees at the tc either, I remember what it was like in the first few months you are learning on the job, mistakes are going to happen but you learn to lessen the effects as you gain experience.

Good luck with your trainee time.

Caroline


ADI, IAM, B+E Training, CAT C & C+E Training www.c-way.co.uk

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#11 03-02-10 17:50:29

scannermanh
Verified Member
Registered: 20-08-08
Posts: 206

Re: Not really a question

A shake of the head from an ADI is one of the best "windups" ever, its amazing the amount of "bo**ocks" and one finger salutes it receives. I know I shouldn't do it, so don't post that I'm a very naughty Boy :evil:, I know, and Yes, I do make mistakes. :angel: big_smile


Scannermanh the Muppet
nils

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#12 03-02-10 17:59:19

scannermanh
Verified Member
Registered: 20-08-08
Posts: 206

Re: Not really a question

Re stalling at junctions, if they stall, I normally push the clutch just above the bite so if they then pull away nicely the second time I release as they start to go, but if they "dump" it I've got it covered and will get it away meself, remainder of the lesson or next one will be stall recovery, fix it.


Scannermanh the Muppet
nils

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#13 04-02-10 08:16:03

judy_83
Member
Registered: 23-11-09
Posts: 23

Re: Not really a question

It all sounds so easy when you guys deal with it.  I do try to make time after each lesson to evaluate the lesson and consider what I could have done better and how.  After this particular one I did wonder if I should have rescued the student with the clutch.  Maybe that would have been a better thing to do or do you think it's less likely that they'll do it again having been in that situation and learnt how to deal with it?  God knows!!! lol

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#14 04-02-10 09:05:04

TDW
Member
From: Yorkshire
Registered: 08-05-09
Posts: 84

Re: Not really a question

Just be ready for next time because someone will do it. wink


Things fall to pieces so that other things can fall into place.

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#15 04-02-10 12:12:09

Luchell
Verified Member
From: Salisbury
Registered: 12-06-07
Posts: 1,661

Re: Not really a question

If you can't talk them through the Stall and/or they are panicking then get the car away on the dual clutch yourself if you see the need to. If the situation you are in involves your learners confidence being shot to bits by another road user if they can't get the car away, or because of the pressure they are finding it more and more diffucult and aren't responding to your talkthrough and/or instructions you may be best off taking over but make sure after you pull your pupil up and explain what you did and why/ when and what they are to do if the situation should arise again. Go get them some practise at that particular weakness without chucking them in to deep unless they are coping of course gradually changing the level of your instruction until they are doing it with 'less help from you' .

Gosh im sure that all sounds confusing but hey i thought i would give it a go  lol

Some may or may not agree but the last thing I want a pupil doing if we have stalled somewhere 'dodgy' is putting the handbrake on, going into neutral, starting the car, setting the gas finding the bit, dropping the handbrake etc etc (all the while hanging out onto a roundabout or stalled blocking the road, stuck at lights that change quickly with half the town queing behind us, esp if good old beeping begins and the pupil gets more and more flustered etc etc etc, clutch down, key turned and you're back where you were unless theres a 'need' to secure the vehicle dependent on where the stall happened and sometimes depending on the reason the stall happened.

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#16 04-02-10 16:25:12

DH
Member
Registered: 04-01-10
Posts: 154

Re: Not really a question

If you can't talk them through the Stall and/or they are panicking then get the car away on the dual clutch yourself if you see the need to.

Good advice.

It's important that they can cope with a stall in heavy traffic but that doesn't mean the instructor has to demoralise the pupil by making them go through the whole textbook routine of starting up and moving off again while they sit there thinking that the world and his wife are looking daggers at them. You wouldn't normally teach any subject in heavy traffic until a reasonable level of competence had been achieved so why expect them to do that with the stall?

A large part of the job is to instil confidence in your pupil. That doesn't mean wrapping them up in cotton wool but neither does it mean letting them end up with a phobia about moving off at junctions.

It depends on the pupil and it depends on the situation. Read the quote again especially the bold part.

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#17 02-03-10 04:00:06

yaris 1.6
Member
Registered: 29-07-09
Posts: 3

Re: Not really a question

Hello

Dont forget if you are sitting in the middle of lights to turn right and  you stall would you really apply parking brake and neutral? or as scan say get on with it and go

I have had several pupils who have failed test for doing parking brake neutral thing on test (not with me tho other instructor) and Driving examiner has said why are you faffing with parking brake?? etc (not on a hill) etc when lights were on red and we were in middle of road blocking other traffic!! had to instruct pupil so as not to cause an accident

If nec help pupil out dont worry about other instructors you are being paid for lesson they are being paid for theirs

Do what you would do and drive as you would ---  not what others think you should do

Yaris

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#18 02-03-10 07:47:45

robcooling
Verified Member
From: Nottingham
Registered: 02-04-09
Posts: 1,451
Website

Re: Not really a question

there is always an adi up the road watching the whole thing!

Very true, one of my pupils was doing a turn in road the other week, they stopped before the kerb - then accidentally lurched us forward lodging the bumper of the car onto the high kerb! eek! On both sides of us waiting and watching were 2 other grinning ADI's i know, soooo embarrassing. Especially as it scraped loudly back off the kerb again. Never again...


Rob

http://www.appledriving.co.uk - Driving Lessons in Nottingham

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#19 02-03-10 21:54:44

Angel
Verified Member
From: Maidstone, Kent
Registered: 23-08-06
Posts: 284
Website

Re: Not really a question

If a pupil stalls but is in the right gear I get them to put the handbrake on but keep it in gear, keep the clutch down when starting the engine (my car required this anyway) and this allows you to get out of the way quicker. I had a pupil get 4th gear instead of 2nd at a mini roundabout and we stopped right in the middle with a car looking at us from each direction by the time we got to move away.  Thinking about it, that same pupil had real trouble straightening up at junctions and each time we were on the verge another teaching car would come past! doh!


I'm teetering on the brink-please push!!

ADI car and Fleet trainer

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#20 03-03-10 00:10:42

Zipper
Verified Member
From: Darwin, Northern Territory Aus
Registered: 20-08-04
Posts: 2,690
Website

Re: Not really a question

If a student has a "brain fart" it's not just ADIs watching, it's the general public too (perhaps even a potential new customer) .

As DH says, if a learner stalls in traffic why demoralise them. I find a dual clutch and dual accelerator* are handy in these situations.
If a learner stalls at lights with other cars around, I say "give me the pedals" (they will have been briefed on how to respond to this in the early part of their training) and get them moving again, they I say "you have the pedals" and they take over again - similar to flight instruction, but in the car the student usually continues to steer.
A nervous student is usually more willing to slow things down and not rush through their moving off technique at the next set of lights, and with "Bruce Public" watching it's less embarrassing for me too .

* For tests, the cable-actuated dual accel in my manual can be disabled by simply removing a pin and it sinks to the floor (all the pedals can be disabled this way, handy when I have passengers).
The dual accel in my Corolla was hinged, it could be kicked upwards out of the way.
The rod-actuated dual accel in my auto can be disabled by sliding a box over it, as can the dual brake. This is not an ideal solution because the boxed controls don't leave much room for passenger's feet.


Zipper ("G'Day Mate!")
I'm not 65! I'm only $59.95+tax
www.drivingnt.com

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#21 03-03-10 01:05:38

DH
Member
Registered: 04-01-10
Posts: 154

Re: Not really a question

Joe Public and I suppose even Bruce Public will never understand.

I had a pupil called Laura who decided along with her Dad to go out and get some private practice in her new car evn though she had only had a few lessons. If I had been asked about it I would have recommended a large car park or maybe an industrial estate since she wasn't yet all that capable.

Her Dad decided to take her out on the roads at a moderately busy time of day. She told me later that she had really enjoyed it but when I asked her Dad about it he said 'You guys are heroes, you earn every !!!!!!!! penny'.  He told me that she didn't see half of what was going on, grinned like an idiot all the way through it and he apologised for not asking me about it first.

'It was like the Wacky Races' he said. I said 'Welcome to my working week'!  big_smile

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