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#1 31-10-09 16:10:03

chriso
Member
Registered: 30-10-09
Posts: 9

biting point

hi iv had 8 hours driving lessons but now i keep going past the biting point and stalling it only happened on my last lesson iv never stalled b 4 even on my 1st lesson
i was on a hill at a junction and stalled 3 times very  :oops:embarrassing my instructor she was grate she never bothered but the cars behind me beep at me

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31-10-09 16:10:03

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Re: biting point




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#2 31-10-09 17:33:18

KevB
Verified Member
From: Amesbury
Registered: 06-06-08
Posts: 1,725
Website

Re: biting point

The car is stalling because the clutch is being raised too high and beyond the biting point, or you are not pausing the clutch just above the biting point to encourage the car to start to creep forwards for a short distance before raising the clutch more to increase car speed, perhaps without sufficient gas being set.

Click the link below for a refresher on how to move off.
http://beechamsdrivingschool.co.uk/Lesson3.aspx

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#3 31-10-09 22:24:05

chriso
Member
Registered: 30-10-09
Posts: 9

Re: biting point

have you any tips on getting the biting point  what revs should i be looking for when on a hill  pulling off

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#4 01-11-09 08:11:21

Lynne
Verified Member
From: Essex
Registered: 05-03-04
Posts: 925

Re: biting point

Don't look for revs you have enough to do with obs without looking at the clocks and dials!  Go by the 'feel' :

When raising clutch try to keep your heel on the floor as a pivot and just raise the top part of your foot s l o w l y.  The first part of the clutch is usually 'freeplay'.  Now you can't keep this position all the way up because your foot won't go back at that angle too far but as you find the bite the bonnet raises slightly and the tone of the engine changes.  Biting points differ on each car.  (The biting point even changed on my car after a clutch change!)  On a hill when you find the bite you will probably need gas to move off.  When mine find the bite we hold it there for a couple of seconds to get used to the feel of the car.  (This is why it's good to go somewhere quiet but we are lucky where I live we have an area that is very hilly.) On hills I tell my lot when the bite is there, we need to compenate lifting the clutch with pushing the gas when we want to move off.

Your best bet if you can is to go to a quiet hilly place and practice with your instructor (sometimes I hold my foot on the clutch pedal and ask pupils to bring their foot up until they feel  mine then we do it together until they get the hang of it).

We practice moving off from handbrake and footbrake too (always good when you are just pausing on a slight gradient and don't have tme to faff around with handbrake missing a chance to go  neutral ).  Then we  practice then moving off back down the hill in 2nd gear and pushng clutch down to roll then bringing up quite quickly without changing gear.  Doing this downhill really gets you to understand how the clutch works with engine braking when the gear is back and engaged and how it freewheels when going downhill.

Then a little lightbulb comes on for those who didn't quite understand about coasting and gear engaged through the clutch.  big_smile

YOu may get it right a dozen times and think you've cracked it then stall again.  Don't get frustrated and don't worry you will find it gradually gets easier with practice  smile

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#5 01-11-09 14:16:40

mouldy
Member
Registered: 10-09-09
Posts: 29

Re: biting point

I stall a lot! Just don't worry about it.

Just take your time over it. Ignore the idiots behind you who are beeping at you they should respect your a learner!!!

Just take your time do it all slowly and listen to the engine the change in sound will tell you when you've found the biting point and then you know your ready to go.

Release the footbrake gradually though so if you start to roll backwards you can stop the car!!!!!

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#6 01-11-09 23:15:49

chriso
Member
Registered: 30-10-09
Posts: 9

Re: biting point

thank for your help am guna try it on my next lesson

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#7 26-11-09 01:38:21

BroomBroom
Member
Registered: 03-03-08
Posts: 10

Re: biting point

Stalling is half the fun of learning. Especially when you're at a sat of traffic lights and someone driving something ostentatiously expensive is behind you, huffing and puffing looking impatient smile

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#8 26-11-09 09:20:13

yasmin
Verified Member
Registered: 02-06-07
Posts: 562

Re: biting point

As Lynne said! I do lots of exercises on hills --- in 1st gear, bring the car to a halt without using the footbrake, catch it on the bite, move off, stop again etc. I do the observations whilst the pupil does the rocking horse impersonations until they're able to do it immediately. It just takes practice and as for stalling---- well even the best drivers can do that! Ignore the numpties behind you! big_smile

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#9 07-12-09 06:03:47

MrBassMan
Verified Member
From: Ceredigion, West Wales
Registered: 10-05-04
Posts: 669
Website

Re: biting point

It is very common - and quite normal - to go backwards on a topic you know once a new topic is introduced.

What has happened is that up till now your brain power has been focused on the task of moving off without stalling. Now a new topic has been introduced -my guess it is extra traffic - and dealing with that is taking brain power away from the moving off task before that task has been properly learned by your muscles.

For a while you need to refocus to give moving off a little more of your brain power until once again it becomes an muscle memory process (needs less brain power) You can then focus your brain back to traffic and let your body do the jobs necessary to move off without stalling.


Learn 2 Pass
Driving lessons in and around Ceredigion in West Wales  http://www.L2P.co.uk

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#10 28-12-09 00:15:27

Zipper
Verified Member
From: Darwin, Northern Territory Aus
Registered: 20-08-04
Posts: 2,695
Website

Re: biting point

...It is very common - and quite normal - to go backwards on a topic you know once a new topic is introduced.

How true!
It's also common to have "bad  hair days" when nothing you do goes right, and the harder you try the worse it gets - most of my students slip back on a topic as MrBassMan says, or just have a bad hair day.
I also know this from when I was learning to fly.


Zipper ("G'Day Mate!")
I'm not 65! I'm only $59.95+tax
www.drivingnt.com

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#11 28-12-09 01:01:30

Evan
Administrator
Registered: 27-12-09
Posts: 2,058

Re: biting point

''Now you can't keep this position all the way up because your foot won't go back at that angle too far but as you find the bite the bonnet raises slightly and the tone of the engine changes.  Biting points differ on each car.  (The biting point even changed on my car after a clutch change!)  On a hill when you find the bite you will probably need gas to move off.  When mine find the bite we hold it there for a couple of seconds to get used to the feel of the car.  (This is why it's good to go somewhere quiet but we are lucky where I live we have an area that is very hilly.) On hills I tell my lot when the bite is there, we need to compenate lifting the clutch with pushing the gas when we want to move off''.

Excellent advice giving a clear instruction of what to do and how to achieve a smooth move off not only on a hill but in all circumstances. This is what good clear instruction is all about. Making the pupil not only see but feel what the car is doing. Ev

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#12 28-12-09 01:42:32

Zipper
Verified Member
From: Darwin, Northern Territory Aus
Registered: 20-08-04
Posts: 2,695
Website

Re: biting point

...Making the pupil not only see but feel what the car is doing. Ev

Exactly, ev!
This is where most of my fellow instructors down here miss out, they don't teach their students to be aware of "feedback" from the car, and wonder why they find it hard to correct problems with the friction* point, braking, steering etc.
(*We use "friction" instead of "biting")

In the early stages I demonstrate a petrol car's feedback using my dual clutch & gas pedals - I find the biting point several times, with & without gas, and bring their attention to each "signal" the car gives i.e.:
LOOK - look for suspension movement (not the tacho). One way of doing this is to look in a mirror - if using the central mirror, watching the scenery moving in relation to the horizontal lines of the demister makes it easier to see the scenery is moving up or down (depending whether you're in reverse or a forward gear). Helps keep your eye on following traffic too.
LISTEN for the engine changing note.
FEEL the suspension movement and feel the engine roughen slightly (too much roughness is a warning of an impending stall).

It helps greatly to keep the heel of your foot on the floor (if you can).
Unfortunately not all cars give a suspension movement, 4WD's often don't.



Zipper ("G'Day Mate!")
I'm not 65! I'm only $59.95+tax
www.drivingnt.com

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#13 28-12-09 09:04:42

drivinginstructortrainer
Member
From: National
Registered: 27-12-09
Posts: 10
Website

Re: biting point

It is very common - and quite normal - to go backwards on a topic you know once a new topic is introduced.

What has happened is that up till now your brain power has been focused on the task of moving off without stalling. Now a new topic has been introduced -my guess it is extra traffic - and dealing with that is taking brain power away from the moving off task before that task has been properly learned by your muscles.

For a while you need to refocus to give moving off a little more of your brain power until once again it becomes an muscle memory process (needs less brain power) You can then focus your brain back to traffic and let your body do the jobs necessary to move off without stalling.

Hi, i totally agree with mrbassman. try not to rely on sub conscious and get too complacent with ability on any particular subject, try make sure you recognise the fault and know how to rectify it before moving into a more demanding situation.

in my experience the most common faults for stalling, once partially trained and aware of where the bite point is, are simply:

1. raising the clutch too fast / too soon:
TRY... slow gradual release of the clutch, not fully released until the car has moved a substantial distance.

2. not having enough pressure on gas / or releasing the pressure off the gas as raising the clutch:
TRY... increasing the pressure on the gas as the clucth is being raised.




Many years of driving instructor training experience.

www.thedrivinginstructortrainer.co.uk

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#14 28-12-09 09:09:08

KevB
Verified Member
From: Amesbury
Registered: 06-06-08
Posts: 1,725
Website

Re: biting point

check how they use the clutch when changing gear. Encourage smooth release through the biting range to develop clutch empathy.

Often, stalling can become an issue once they are changing gears on "autopilot".  They lose clutch empathy not just for gear changing but for moving off (where it is most evident).

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