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#1 23-11-09 23:19:51

JonnyG
Verified Member
From: Belfast
Registered: 13-01-05
Posts: 742
Website

New Pupil for check test

Just wanted to bring a thought to everyone.
Im still waiting for my first check test, but quite often when on lessons, think about what I could do when the time comes.  I know examiners sometimes like to see ADIs doing something different than a manoeuver or roundabout improvement.

I have always enjoyed the lessons where I am meeting a new pupil for the first time, and find these lessons to be very successful, whether they are partly trained, or starting off from scratch.

What are your thoughts about doing this on a check test, and what do you think the examiners will think about a lesson like this?

I would imagine choosing a partly trained pupil would be my choice.  I would try and arrange a meeting with the pupil to hear their own story of areas they want to improve on, or if they have failed a test, I would ask to see their Test report.

From this, I could maybe construct a lesson plan to improve one or two areas of their driving. 

As I said, Im just posting this to get some interesting comments.

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23-11-09 23:19:51

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Re: New Pupil for check test



#2 24-11-09 15:40:58

graemeg
Verified Member
From: Johnstone
Registered: 02-10-09
Posts: 40
Website

Re: New Pupil for check test

On my last check test I took a pupil who had done around 5 lessons with me about 6 months before and had given up due to being made redundant.

I took him into test centre to meet SE(dont know why people leave them in the car).

Subject for the lessons was a recap on controls of the car(as I now had a new car big_smile) then recap on moving off and stopping.
We managed to move off and stop several times including on a slight incline (great chance to explain the difference when stopping and moving away on a hill big_smile).

I found this a great way to do a check test, as it is exactly what the pupil needs, they will quickly learn and show an improvement and you do not need to worry about them being 'not as good as normal'. Also doing it like this the time passed so quick it was all over very quick and I was always in control of the lesson.


SE must have liked it he gave me a overall 5 but lots of 6s in many boxes and said I should be aiming for a 6 next time.

If I could give any advice for a CT I would say to do what the pupil needs that day and be yourself, once you get into your flow you should not even notice the Se is there.

Graeme

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#3 24-11-09 21:05:39

Aspyre
Member
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: New Pupil for check test

Not sure if its the same in NI Jonny but when they send the CT letter through here it specifically says not to take a beginner..... or words very much to that effect.. They want someone who is partly trained like the one graeme took.

I'm sure there are some who would advice you to do it just to be contrary to the DSA....... but be careful.. Its YOUR CT after all.

Lecturing on controls for half an hour isnt really showing your ability to teach or identify and fix faults unless you have a very unique way of doing it.. Risky.

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#4 24-11-09 21:29:24

graemeg
Verified Member
From: Johnstone
Registered: 02-10-09
Posts: 40
Website

Re: New Pupil for check test

If you get a pupil who has had any training before then they are not a beginer but may need to go back to basics to begin with.

They might have done any/some/lots of lessons but will not be familair with your car. The whole controls part can be done interactive with Q&A just to check there knowledge. Then go over moving/stopping with Q&A and let them show you how good they are. Then go over MSPSL and approaching left turns and if time let them do that to. Then on way back to T/C tell them what you will be doing next time!!

Graeme

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#5 24-11-09 22:10:16

Aspyre
Member
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: New Pupil for check test

Jonny appears to be talking about possibly taking a total beginner on his CT.

I have always enjoyed the lessons where I am meeting a new pupil for the first time, and find these lessons to be very successful, whether they are partly trained, or starting off from scratch.

What are your thoughts about doing this on a check test, and what do you think the examiners will think about a lesson like this?

The SE wants to see your instructional abilites mostly and not just how good you are at meeting people.. It's an interesting idea but a risky one..... especially if the NI invite letter says not to take a beginner like the mainland one does.

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#6 24-11-09 22:48:55

graemeg
Verified Member
From: Johnstone
Registered: 02-10-09
Posts: 40
Website

Re: New Pupil for check test

I agree, if the letter says dont take a beginner then dont take a beginner. I cant remember if my invite stated that I honestly dont know.

However if the pupil is only new to Jonny but not new to learning to drive then it is a great chance to show what you would do in this situation.
Plenty of scope for a beginning a middle and an end to the lesson, showing off your skills and the pupil should show an improvement by the end big_smile
And if you plan your route correctly nothing too much can go wrong.

Graeme

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#7 26-11-09 13:00:50

Luchell
Verified Member
From: Salisbury
Registered: 12-06-07
Posts: 1,661

Re: New Pupil for check test

I cannot find anything suggesting a complete novice is unacceptable or not recommended in the Dsa ADI1 guidelines, nor can i see any reference that could be taken to be hinting at not taking a novice on my invite letter. (Chapter 4 from the left hand list takes you to check test info)

http://www.dsa.gov.uk/Documents/publica … a_adi1.pdf

For Northern Ireland the DVTA lists the subjects that are acceptable, the first being controls.

http://www.dvtani.gov.uk/adi/checktest.asp

MY personal opinion would be that i would prefer a pupil who is not a complete novice but wanted to put the info here that i was aware of  smile


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#8 26-11-09 15:32:15

Aspyre
Member
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: New Pupil for check test

If you look at the letter they send in the mainland luchell i think you will find it refers to a partly trained person..... which I interpreted as meaning not a beginner when I did my last one nearly 3 years ago.

Even if it says no such thing the reasons for it being a risk must be fairly obvious.. The SE doesnt want to listen to someone rattling on about controls for half an hour then just about getting them moving.. Maybe it is different in NI as I said to start with..  A large problem with CTs is ADIs are so full of themselves they forget who they are supposed to be training and think that doing a lot of talking is automatically good.. It isn't.

For the sake of argument lets assume that there is absolutely no hint of wheterh to take a beginner or not........ it comes back to the OPs actual query "is it a good idea?"

The SE wants to see your instructional abilitites..... as many of them as possible.. This includes identification and analysis/remedy of faults..

If you dont have to identify and remedy many faults then I cant see how anyone could hope to get anything even close to a 6.. Even a 4 might be a long shot if its some ones first CT.. Just a look at the marking sheet suggests a beginner/controls lesson is going to leave gaps unless you force the issue, and that may not fit in with the REAL lesson you are trying to give.

My opinion is that it is a risky strategy in the mainland UK.. It might work.. But it might go pear shaped so is risky.

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#9 26-11-09 20:09:02

Luchell
Verified Member
From: Salisbury
Registered: 12-06-07
Posts: 1,661

Re: New Pupil for check test

Hey Aspyre  smile

I know exactly where you are coming from, my post is only for the sake of explaining i couldnt find anything that says you cannot take a 'beginner'.or that implied that Personally as said above its not something i would want to do personally. When i did my first check test 3 ish years ago perhaps it did mention what you have above. It didn't suggest anything on the recent invite so maybe it was on there in the past perhaps.

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#10 27-11-09 23:20:45

Nissanman
Member
Registered: 30-09-09
Posts: 98

Re: New Pupil for check test

Use the David Blaine videos she is good?

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#11 28-11-09 00:56:25

Luchell
Verified Member
From: Salisbury
Registered: 12-06-07
Posts: 1,661

Re: New Pupil for check test

It might be a good idea for me to remind you Nissanman you're not posting under the name 'Fatamaadi' just incase you hadn't realised where your posting 'techinique' had completely swapped over but you'd forgotten your username.   roll

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#12 28-11-09 08:18:00

flipper
Verified Member
Registered: 28-03-08
Posts: 11

Re: New Pupil for check test

Why would you want to take a new pupil on a ct. It seems some instructors are trying to bluff there way through the ct by talking. Whats up with you are you not capable of doing your job properly, so just get on with it and show them what you can do.

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#13 28-11-09 09:56:15

KevB
Verified Member
From: Amesbury
Registered: 06-06-08
Posts: 1,725
Website

Re: New Pupil for check test

I certainly wouldn't want to do a Controls lesson on a check test , but.......

An instructor can and should still apply the core comps even on that subject. And so I see no reason why it couldnt be the subject on a check test.
The Controls is afterall included on part 3 PST1.

I did however do part trained-moving off + stopping on my last check test. (Not through choice, I might add,  It's the one subject I actually least enjoy covering on lessons, let alone for a check test). It just so happened that that is what the pupil needed at the time.

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#14 30-11-09 01:31:37

Tony
Verified Member
Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 72
Website

Re: New Pupil for check test

Jonny appears to be talking about possibly taking a total beginner on his CT.

Just a thought - What if it were a total beginner being used on a check test? We all know how nervous and excited most new pupils are when meeting an instructor for the first time... What state would they be in if they got to meet an examiner also on their very first lesson?  yikes yikes yikes   big_smile

Tony.

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#15 30-11-09 10:06:20

Nissanman
Member
Registered: 30-09-09
Posts: 98

Re: New Pupil for check test

It would not matter as they have never had a lesson before?  Would not know any difference?  When they have further lessons and will get used to the next pupil in the back they will get used to driving passengers so will do well?

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#16 30-11-09 13:46:21

Target
Verified Member
From: Winchmore Hill North London
Registered: 17-01-05
Posts: 5,695
Website

Re: New Pupil for check test

My advice would be that a beginner ( controls - moving off/stopping ) if not an ideal candidate for a CT.

Alot could depend on the logistics of the TC....MPTC are not well placed, others could need a lenghtly drive before starting.

However. If you do not have a choice then your pupil will need to fit the CT, its difficult finding someone free at the time specified.

In all honesty I think the best lessons are those you struggle with...Some will argue, but at least it gives you a chance to have some feedback afterwards.....You could go down the pan thou and get graded lower than a 4 :oops:

Choose a subject that allows you to show your teaching ability in a wider area.


Approved Driving Instructor ADI(car)
Cardington Grade (A) Diamond Special DIA MSA IAM ROSPA (Silver)
QEF Mobility Qualified
Taxi Driver Training DATT
BTEC Qualified Assessor
www.targettuition.co.uk
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#17 30-11-09 15:17:14

JonnyG
Verified Member
From: Belfast
Registered: 13-01-05
Posts: 742
Website

Re: New Pupil for check test

Ah good a bit of discussion.  Ive been away from the forum lately, so only just logging in to read the replys now. 

Just to clear up something...I most likely wouldnt chose to do controls/moving and stopping even if it was permissible, because of the fact that a suitable area is a bit of a drive from the test centre where Id be meeting the examiner, also a 1 hour lesson isn't long enough with a drive to and from location anyway.

My thoughts would be mainly on a new client who has had a fair bit of previous driving, possibly even failed a test before. 

I was thinking that if I go into the CT with no prior knowledge of seeing their driving, then I wont be wondering why on earth they make faults which are uncharacteristic to their normal, which I would imagine would tend to happen with the presence of an extra passenger.

The only problem I can forsee is when doing the necessary licence and eyesight checks beforehand....what if they are not up to scratch, then Im snookered. 

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