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#1 28-08-09 19:52:27

jamboy25
Member
Registered: 15-08-09
Posts: 25

Part 3 first attempt

I failed my first part 3 test! I got PST 2 (Moving Off & Stopping & Overtake, ADI clearance & anticipation)

OK so leading up to it I was really looking forward & passed all my mock tests & briefings, fault ID & Q&A all good until the examiner walked out & my legs trembled & got really nervy!

On the day! my mind lost it & everything I have been told & learned went out the sun roof!!!!

2/3  :x SCORE WHICH IS VERY POOR CONSIDERING TH ELOWEST MARK I GET IS 4/4.

Next time I will nail it also the examiner was a nightmare & even clipped my left side mirror.

Any advice will be greatfull for next time I really want this big_smile big_smile

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28-08-09 19:52:27

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Re: Part 3 first attempt



#2 28-08-09 20:07:54

colin166
Verified Member
From: Rushden, Northants
Registered: 31-05-09
Posts: 152

Re: Part 3 first attempt

Hard luck mate, I know how you feel, I have had 2 attempts now.
I got ped crossings phase1 last time, I did a really good job of making the SE check the mirrors but the part of my brain that should have told him what to look in them for was missing on the day.
It is all to easy to blame the SE as I did but looking back now he wasn't so bad.
I think next time we have to combat the nerves as well as remember everything we have been taught.
What happened in moving off and stopping with him?
Colin.

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#3 28-08-09 20:53:18

jamboy25
Member
Registered: 15-08-09
Posts: 25

Re: Part 3 first attempt

Well she was all over the road & I had to grab the top of the steering wheel & explain after why I done it! then I done another full talk through & she kept of going over the place she even mounted the kerb. When i finally got her to position the car I said stop & hold the car in that position but as soon as a said stop she slammed on the breaks! yikes I will never say stop again believe me!

I knew I was in for a hard time but by god with the nerves & the examiner acting like a loony it was tough!! I have allot of positives though big_smile

What subjects have you failed on before!

Alex

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#4 28-08-09 22:53:14

Freedom Phil
Verified Member
From: Sunderland, North East UK
Registered: 31-03-09
Posts: 342
Website

Re: Part 3 first attempt

how did the examiner clip the mirror? 

.phil.


DIA diploma in driving instruction.  DSA registered fleet trainer.  ORDIT registered trainer part's 1, 2, 3 & ORDIT premises inspected.  SAFED trainer and assessor.  RoSPA approved tutor.  Diamond registered advanced instructor.  Diamond qualified advanced examiner. City & Guilds 7303 PTLLS teaching certificate.  IAM advanced test, Diamond advanced test, Diamond special test, Cardington special test, RoSPA gold

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#5 29-08-09 08:42:24

jamboy25
Member
Registered: 15-08-09
Posts: 25

Re: Part 3 first attempt

Well at first she was shaving other cars so I pulled her over & advised not to do it & the reason why! I told her to give about 1 metres distance & we set off again. We parked a batch of other cars which was fine so I told her to keep that distance then she passed another few cars & clipped the side mirror. So I pulled her over again & she dropped me a hint I think & said I don't know how to judge a meter.  :cry:

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#6 29-08-09 12:23:57

Luchell
Verified Member
From: Salisbury
Registered: 12-06-07
Posts: 1,661

Re: Part 3 first attempt

That was phase two then? The S.e needed a reference point by the sound of it, did you give the S.e a reference point for when you did the moving off and stopping if thats when they were up the kerb?

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#7 29-08-09 16:38:35

jamboy25
Member
Registered: 15-08-09
Posts: 25

Re: Part 3 first attempt

Yea I started to talk about the ref point but I felt like I was blabering!! & I could not get out what I was trying to say! as for phase 2 I again could not get out of my mouth what ref to use. To be honest I looked at the test sheet today & I should have passed this I know what to do but I suppose nerves in the end got me!

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#8 29-08-09 17:11:48

john55
Verified Member
From: Stirling
Registered: 25-05-06
Posts: 227

Re: Part 3 first attempt

Next time I will nail it also the examiner was a nightmare & even clipped my left side mirror.

no damage done i hope. if there was and i was your trainer i'd be wanting to know why they done that. seems a bit unproffessional to me.


If you can't do it safely don't do it at all

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#9 29-08-09 18:35:42

jamboy25
Member
Registered: 15-08-09
Posts: 25

Re: Part 3 first attempt

No damage was done! I told my trainer when I finished & he said that she would not have done that on purpose! When she done it It took me by surprise!

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#10 30-08-09 16:58:03

Spike
Verified Member
Registered: 26-01-09
Posts: 285

Re: Part 3 first attempt

Sounds like she needs some retraining before she does any more Part 3 tests then. My understanding is that they are not allowed to do anything dangerous or illegal and definitely not anything that could cause any damage. If she's clipping door mirrors accidentally that shows a serious flaw in her own driving ability.

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#11 30-08-09 17:10:04

jamboy25
Member
Registered: 15-08-09
Posts: 25

Re: Part 3 first attempt

Mate I really dont want her again! do they have more than one SE for ADI's at test centres or is it her that does all ADI part 3 tests! yikes

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#12 30-08-09 17:17:35

Luchell
Verified Member
From: Salisbury
Registered: 12-06-07
Posts: 1,661

Re: Part 3 first attempt

IF the reason she was running amuck was down to a lack of control from you it wouldn't have made much difference who marked you. Did the Se give you any feedback on WHY you couldn't get her to do something? I'm mainly referring to the phase one grade 2, WHY was the S.e all over the shot? Why did she mount the kerb? Did your instructions need to be more proactive rather than retrospective within your 'full talkthrough'?

Just to get a better picture, it's hard sometimes to grasp just what happened.

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#13 30-08-09 20:37:25

jamboy25
Member
Registered: 15-08-09
Posts: 25

Re: Part 3 first attempt

Yea it was down to me not giving the SE ref points! I lost control & because I was so nervous I found it hard to grab the lesson by the scruff of the neck! I really wanted to kick myself because I know what to do its just when it came down to it I bottled it!

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#14 30-08-09 21:01:30

colin166
Verified Member
From: Rushden, Northants
Registered: 31-05-09
Posts: 152

Re: Part 3 first attempt

I know how you feel, some people will tell you just to treat the test like a normal driving lesson but if you get really nervous you can't do that because so much depends on it and your mind won't seem to fuction in the way you want it to.
I have got my 3rd attempt in 2 weeks and I am dreading it because its my last attempt and I know I can do it if I can conquer the nerves.

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#15 30-08-09 23:26:31

Spike
Verified Member
Registered: 26-01-09
Posts: 285

Re: Part 3 first attempt

Yea it was down to me not giving the SE ref points! I lost control & because I was so nervous I found it hard to grab the lesson by the scruff of the neck! I really wanted to kick myself because I know what to do its just when it came down to it I bottled it!

Even so, she should not have clipped the mirrors. Sounds like total lack of control on her part, yet she can sit in judgement on how PDIs can control a lesson.

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#16 30-08-09 23:43:57

colin166
Verified Member
From: Rushden, Northants
Registered: 31-05-09
Posts: 152

Re: Part 3 first attempt

I agree.

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#17 30-08-09 23:50:39

Luchell
Verified Member
From: Salisbury
Registered: 12-06-07
Posts: 1,661

Re: Part 3 first attempt

Looking at it from another angle yes she shouldn't have hit the door mirror but then again the instructor sat next to her shouldn't have allowed it to happen in the first place. Im not saying tapping a door mirror is ok I just thought i would offer another side to it  smile

Just to check i am reading it correctly, the poster states he put the S.e into place for giving adequate clearance to parked vehicles she then passed a few more and clipped the mirror? Did the S.e move in closer AFTER being told that was the position they should be in or did they clip the mirror after being put in position ?

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#18 31-08-09 09:11:55

jamboy25
Member
Registered: 15-08-09
Posts: 25

Re: Part 3 first attempt

At first she was shaving a batch of cars so I pulled her over & discussed it & advised why not to do it! I then told her about a ref point but never pointed out what she was to look for! On my debrief the SE said that she was wanting me to show her what to look for not just tell her! when I look back it at she gave me loads of hints but I never used them. I deserved to fail because I did not do what I can do on my training sessions but the only reason why I am so gutted is I practice on my way to work, lunch breaks, shower & even between commercial breaks.

I am 100% sure without being to cocky that I will nail this next time!

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#19 31-08-09 13:22:35

KevB
Verified Member
From: Amesbury
Registered: 06-06-08
Posts: 1,725
Website

Re: Part 3 first attempt

I suspect that when you told her that her position was now good and for her to keep it, you failed to say "from the obstruction/parked cars".

She would assume her ROAD POSITION was correct, and kept to that (perhaps following centre of the road, and neglecting differences in clearance from parked vehicles).  This is pretty much how learners would do it if the CLEARANCE is not addressed when discussing positioning.

She may well also have expected you to grab the wheel as she got closer to the parked cars, afterall, you had already done so on a previous near miss.

I really don't think she intentionally hit the mirror, possibly you flinched as she got close, and she took that as you about to grab the wheel. Supposition on my part.

Some DE's WILL shave too close, but often will do a manic steer away at the last moment, commenting on how close they felt to the parked car. However, as you had already taken physical action ealrier, she may well have been waiting for you to do the same again.
Perhaps a lesson on not taking physical action EXCEPT in emergency situation, and then a clear and precise explaination as to why action was taken, and then addressing the issues that led to it.

All too often instructors, trainees and [part 3 candidates use physical action too eagerly.  The bottom line is, in the vast majority of cases, it is because they are not controlling the driver appropriately leading into the situation.

Although I do not agree with examiners hitting other vehicles or obstructions, I think this one may have made a simple human error, which any driver can do.

I hope you pulled her over and left details on the other car regarding the incident and didn't simply ignore the mirror strike, assuming that no damage was caused to the other vehicle without stopping and checking.

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#20 31-08-09 17:13:44

Spike
Verified Member
Registered: 26-01-09
Posts: 285

Re: Part 3 first attempt

Although I do not agree with examiners hitting other vehicles or obstructions, I think this one may have made a simple human error, which any driver can do.

A simple human error that would cause an ordinary candidate to fail their practical test.

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#21 13-09-09 13:40:10

ceecee
Verified Member
From: Milton Keynes
Registered: 05-01-08
Posts: 34

Re: Part 3 first attempt

Hi there,

I know how you feel. I had the same PST and ended up with a 3/4. I have my second attempt coming up this month and feel so much more prepared for it (not that I wasn't the first time). My aim is to go in there and I.A.R on every fault the SE commits and hopefully I will get the right result.

Good luck for your next attempt, I am sure you will do it


ADI Part 1 passed: 28/03/2008
ADI Part 2 passed: 03/07/2008
ADI Part 3 failed: 28/07/2009
ADI Part 3 failed: 30/09/2009
ADI Part 3 passed:07/10/2009

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#22 14-09-09 13:05:42

Russ_H
Member
Registered: 03-02-09
Posts: 7
Website

Re: Part 3 first attempt

ceecee wrote:

Hi there,

My aim is to go in there and I.A.R on every fault the SE commits and hopefully I will get the right result.

Good luck for your next attempt, I am sure you will do it

Hello,

If a fault occurs, it is correct to use IAR to deal with it, but, much more importantly,
would it not be better to prevent the occurrence of the fault in the first place?

Do this by means of positive instruction on the approach to hazards, rather than
trying to sort things out that have already gone wrong. This means, almost certainly,
that you will be giving full talk through in the early stages of the first phase.

Bear in mind that the examiner is limited in the type of faults that he or she can
commit, or attempt to commit. So, for example, if you were teaching pedestrian
crossings as a first phase, you would have to actively teach the use of mirrors
on approach, and the need for speed control.

When it comes to overtaking on approach, the examiner is not going to do it,
though they might threaten it. Similarly, when dealing with stop when necessary,
the examiner is not going to knock a pedestrian down, nor are they going to
threaten it if it would alarm a pedestrian. In these two cases you will almost
certainly be examined by verbal questioning, rather than any other method.

Do to try to head off faults before they can occur. It is by far the best method
of instruction in the majority of cases.

As an illustration, imagine you are teaching someone to fly. They are attempting
their first landing. You have given your briefing. Their approach to landing is not
going to plan. Would you sit there in silence and wait for them to crash, and
then say "The reason you crashed was..."? Of course you wouldn't. You would
give them detailed instruction on approach. There is no reason why driving
instruction should be any different.

Regards,

Russ

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#23 14-09-09 13:28:15

Russ_H
Member
Registered: 03-02-09
Posts: 7
Website

Re: Part 3 first attempt

Dear All,

Hmmm. :? Not sure how I managed to get my last post looking like a quote.
It wasn't meant to be.

Regards,

Russ

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#24 16-09-09 10:52:58

jay666
Member
From: West Midlands
Registered: 15-04-09
Posts: 210
Website

Re: Part 3 first attempt

Thanks russ for the useful information there. In my debrief for my first part 3 attempt the SE did tell me it was alot better to be proactive and stop the faults before they happ en where possible so feel i am more than ready for my next attempt smile

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#25 27-09-09 06:43:20

ijmoore
Verified Member
From: Staffordshire
Registered: 25-10-06
Posts: 1,077
Website

Re: Part 3 first attempt

All of Iar needs covering fully.

I wonder if your trainer ever played up and did not understand what you were asking?  Playing a pupil can be difficult, but should represent real students, it sounds like the examiner was doing what a student would do, and it shocked you?

For me also finding out WHY someone is doing something is part of your analysis (cause and effect) as soon as the examiner said I don't know how to judge, you knew how to sort it. Use this as a q&a standard, "why do you think that is happening?" to your student?


Fleet Training
Iain Moore ADI Grade A, Fleet, RoSPA Tutor, DIAmond Ad, MSA National B Race License, EST Reg
fleet@learnmooredriving.co.uk 07999 992141

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