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#1 02-08-09 22:36:25

Ttomttom
Member
Registered: 01-08-09
Posts: 56

It would have been easier to stay quiet

A traffic division policeman stopped a van on the most dangerous bit of road for 2000 yds.

He could of stopped early or followed it for 2000 yds but he stopped him exactly where it could not be more dangerous.

Cars were queuing to leap frog around this police car with it's lights on, this was a blind bend and was considerably dangerous.

When i got to the front of the queue I have lifted my arms in exasperation wound the passenger window down and asked "could you make this any more dangerous" now bearing in mind that I am sign written and it is obvious what i am doing.

This copper has screamed at the top of his voice PULLOVER----PULLOVER--PULLOVER
which I did immediately in front of the van thus using it as protection, he has opened my door and as good as shouted at me that I am being arrested for a public order offence, the other copper was laughing at him the bloke they was questioning was laughing at him.

I asked him if he was the driver and asked politely my original question and asked politely my original question and asked politely my original question then i asked him to take his mirror reflective glasses off.

He informed me that if I have a complaint to go to the nearest police stn and make it then he tells me that all he is trying to do is his job and this situation is out of control then he tells me to consider myself lucky and to get back in my car and continue with my lesson.

I really wanted to make my point that he is not above the law and he should have taken everything into consideration before stopping the van THERE. but I didn't I got back in my car and continued with the lesson.

I am still trying to work out who is the bigger buffoon me or him?

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02-08-09 22:36:25

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Re: It would have been easier to stay quiet




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#2 02-08-09 23:09:27

Luchell
Verified Member
From: Salisbury
Registered: 12-06-07
Posts: 1,661

Re: It would have been easier to stay quiet

To be honest hard to say without being able to picture the situation clearly, I probably would have moaned but kept my mouth shut as knowing my luck that would be me getting pulled in like you did.

I had a slightly different incident a few months back whilst driving on my own to a pupils lesson. As always I used to bus lanes (the ones joe public seem oblivious to and harrass us most days winding windows down telling us we're clearly idiots and are in the wrong lane   roll This time it wasn't Joe public, as I drove down the first part of the bus lane the police car behind put it's light on and beckoned me in. Once i had pulled over which was NOT immediately as i would have put people at risk, i stopped quite quickly still but in what i considered to be a 'safe place'. He asked what on earth i was doing driving in the bus lane and that i should know better, what sort of advert was it to my customers that i was clueless??  :x :x

I wasn't about to get taken for a trip to the local cop shop but i advised him that perhaps HE should read his highway code should he get a minute. I said the rest under my breath to be honest i just wanted to get out of the there the embarrassment was awful to say the least, all for doing just what i was supposed to be  :x

I should have made a complaint but in the end once i calmed down decided not to, i did however speak to the chappy in charge and mention it may be a good idea to get his staff to read the highway code before trying to lecture someone for using correct road procedure  :x

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#3 03-08-09 06:08:12

FRANKS
Verified Member
From: WALES
Registered: 05-06-06
Posts: 530

Re: It would have been easier to stay quiet

Question, do you think the police officer intended to pull the driver up on the corner, or do you think the driver just stopped when the police officer put his blues on? Yes he could have asked the van driver to move further on to a safer place.

Question, do you think your attitude helped?? I like you see dangerous things/situations happening on the road all the time. I'd be in the police station every day if I took your attitude. If fact if what you did to the police officer to some member of the public you'd probably land up getting hurt or even worse!!

You need to becareful not to take your frustration out on people, do you think this was  good example to set to your pupil. Some would class it as ROAD RAGE!

Just my thoughts you understand,

And just for the record I'm not ex police


Try always to be honest in everthing you do.
Be an 'HONEST BUSINESS PERSON'
Gain respect in ever thing you do

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#4 03-08-09 08:05:15

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: It would have been easier to stay quiet

Imagine how you could have turned this into a positive situation for your pupil -
'how are we going to handle this hazard'.

Much better than trying to get yourself arrested in front of your pupil.

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#5 03-08-09 14:31:40

Ttomttom
Member
Registered: 01-08-09
Posts: 56

Re: It would have been easier to stay quiet

yikes Hindsight is a wonderful thing lol

On both our parts, I hope that next time he decides to pull someone over he might consider the consequences of stopping legally without having to resort to "I am allowed to stop anywhere in the execution of my duty"

The impression I got was that he was to thick to comprehend what I said but realised that there was not a chance in hell of getting me to accept a ticket.

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#6 03-08-09 20:01:04

Kev D
Verified Member
From: Cheshire
Registered: 25-06-06
Posts: 306

Re: It would have been easier to stay quiet

Again, as others have said, without seeing the incident (The request to stop, the drivers reaction and the location of the stop) it is impossible to comment on the specifics, but some food for thought:

When a Police Officer requests a moving vehicle to stop, it can react in many different ways.  Firstly I would want to look at where was the original request to stop made and was there a suitable place to pull in or pull over at that time.  Then I would want to know how long it took the driver to become aware of the request to stop.  Having become aware of the officers PRESENCE, what was their understanding of the officers intentions; was the officer responding to a 999 call and want to get past? or was he requesting the vehicle to stop? 

Drivers could be categorised into the following groups when requested to stop:
Unaware and non-compliant
Aware and compliant-competent (finds a safe legal place)
Aware and compliant-incompetent (finds an unsuitable place and is prone to panic)
Aware and non-compliant (fail to stop for police and is likely to undertake risk to evade)

From the information provided it is impossible to know how this vehicle stop developed and who fell short of safe standards, it could have been the Officer or the other driver.

Having made the vehicle stop in that location, I am sure the officer would have been aware of its unsuitability as an ideal location to stop, which may have contributed towards him not accepting your feedback freely and openly and caused him to flare up.  Due to operational reasons, the officer may have risk assessed the situation as it was and decided that he did not want to ask the driver to move in case it compromised the integrity of evidence that he may have needed to preserve.

As I said, this is just some food for thought and I am not defending either the officer or the driver, but I doubt your contribution will have shown you at your professional best in the eyes of your student or prospective customers looking on to the incident.

Kev D



Police Driver Trainer
Grade 6 ADI - May 2013

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#7 03-08-09 20:45:35

Ttomttom
Member
Registered: 01-08-09
Posts: 56

Re: It would have been easier to stay quiet

Hi kev, not something I considered to be honest.

The fact that it may have been the driver he stopped that caused the situation.

I will take a wild stab in the dark and this is pure speculation but I think judging from the way this coppers colleague reacted and the way the other driver reacted to what this copper did to me. The other driver was stopped for a minor traffic offence, (maybe a dodgy brake light).

If this was the case then they could of easily told him to move to a safer place instead of questioning him there.

We live and learn, maybe next time I will park round the cnr and walk back to remonstrate with them. big_smile I think I was right to tell them what I thought but maybe did it the wrong way. :oops:

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#8 08-08-09 11:04:39

Doc
Verified Member
Registered: 11-02-06
Posts: 559
Website

Re: It would have been easier to stay quiet

I think it’s fair to say that over the decades the public have found that some officers in the police force are as corrupt -if not more-  than those they  are charged with policing. So to have an unhealthy view of them is understandable. With the situation you describe, there is little evidence to say whether or not the police have been negligent. However! The police are not our role models ( if they were then perhaps there would be less crime) but as driving instructors, we are. Our habits and behaviour on the road should always portray us at our best, as we never can truly tell how our actions are going to affect or influence others. You have openly expressed your lack of regard for the officers in question in front of a learner who can only then either dismiss your actions as wrong or accept them as right and possibly go on to adopt the very same attitude later in their life. None of which are desirable to all parties. The police may have inconvenienced other road users for a spell but you may have planted the seed for a deep rooted resentment in your learner. Is that worth the risk? If the police were in fact wrong that does not give anyone the right to question them in the manner that you did. That in itself is wrong and two wrongs don’t make a right. At that moment you were being paid to teach your learner to drive and though you may have identified the hazard and used it as a teaching opportunity, you also used that time to conduct your own agenda. Even if you gave the time back at the end of the lesson or reduced your rate to compensate for the lost learning time, it is not ideal. I know you have accepted what people are saying so far, with regards to your action but have you considered that perhaps you may have an anger management problem, especially in relation to the police?

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#9 08-08-09 11:51:30

Ttomttom
Member
Registered: 01-08-09
Posts: 56

Re: It would have been easier to stay quiet

big_smile Hello again Doc, xx

If I had not had a pupil with me at that time I deffo, deffo would have insisted this jumped up lil clown in uniform stand by his word and arrest me. I would have had his job if I could, the only thing that stopped me was the fact that I had a pupil in the car and I would not compromise my profession.

The reason for this is I was put off the road for 2 years because of a drunk driver 100 yds from this very spot, the drunk driver was given 1 year ban and an £80 fine with costs. (The police did not offer any evidence to say other people were involved and the cps went for minimum statutory conviction) I still carry injuries to this day. The extra traffic calming measures that cost 10s of £1000s were a direct result of this crash

So coming across this situation where this copper has potentially ignored all the extra road safety measures and is actually causing a situation, it definately did influence the way i acted. :angel:

Be good Doc, xx

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#10 08-08-09 12:17:20

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: It would have been easier to stay quiet

the only thing that stopped me was the fact that I had a pupil in the car and I would not compromise my profession

I think you already have done that by having a go at the copper in front of your pupil.

You  were letting out your anger on a copper doing his job  because you feel let down, not by him, but by the system which deals with offenders. 

If you saw the drunk driver again would you  kick the s*** out of him?

 

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#11 08-08-09 13:35:39

Ttomttom
Member
Registered: 01-08-09
Posts: 56

Re: It would have been easier to stay quiet

the only thing that stopped me was the fact that I had a pupil in the car and I would not compromise my profession

I think you already have done that by having a go at the copper in front of your pupil.

You  were letting out your anger on a copper doing his job  because you feel let down, not by him, but by the system which deals with offenders. 

If you saw the drunk driver again would you  kick the s*** out of him?

Hi Roadmaster, everyone is entitled to cast an opinion, fair play to you.
Compromising my profession or utilising it????
Letting out my anger on the copper because I feel let down????
I am happy to forgive her for what she did to me, but she has got to live with it and what she might have done to her baby. (The baby was in a car seat behind her, and did not suffer any physical harm as far as I know)

I hope I have addressed the issues you have raised, I do hope you are a better instructor than you are a psychiatrist big_smile big_smile big_smile

Please accept this post without malice, I have answered for the sake of humour. It might be a bit sour but it has made me laugh. xx

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