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#1 18-05-09 20:05:39

jlo31
Verified Member
Registered: 17-02-09
Posts: 194
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Signs with yellow background? Does it mean accident blackspot?

Hi,

Just wondered if anyone could answer this question.

I often see warning signs eg crossroads, junction on a bend etc etc with a yellow surrounding and these tend to be where hazardous junctions etc appear to be. A few years ago a fleet trainer told me that when a certain amount of accidents had happened at the location then they would put a yellow boarder on the sign to make it stand out more.

However I have googled this fact and searched the highway code and I see no mention of this. Is this true?

Cheers

Jlo31


RoSPA Diploma in Advanced Driving Instruction
IAM Motorcycle
DSA ADI (Car)
DSA Fleet registered trainer (Grade 5)
www.PrecisionDriverTraining.co.

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Re: Signs with yellow background? Does it mean accident blackspot?



#2 18-05-09 20:23:24

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Signs with yellow background? Does it mean accident blackspot?

Basically councils tend to plant roadsigns in areas where there have already been accidents (costs).  If drivers continue to have accidents after a sign has been planted they will then plant one with a yellow background.  The next option is one of teh interactive signs and or maybe a camera.  Other options would include changes to the road layout.

Have a look at some of the staggered junctions locally - did they used to be straight across crossroads that have been staggered to slow down the traffic?

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#3 18-05-09 20:51:33

jlo31
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Registered: 17-02-09
Posts: 194
Website

Re: Signs with yellow background? Does it mean accident blackspot?

Thanks for the answer Nigel. Those interactive signs are very effective. Have a few of them around Worcestershire. They are even self powered as well!

I know when I drive I of course use all road signs for information but when ever I see a yellow background or interactive sign it always makes me think 'so what has gone wrong here then in the past' and usually when you see the road layout its obvious.

Thanks again.

Jlo31


RoSPA Diploma in Advanced Driving Instruction
IAM Motorcycle
DSA ADI (Car)
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#4 18-05-09 22:07:16

oldcodger
Verified Member
Registered: 25-04-09
Posts: 106

Re: Signs with yellow background? Does it mean accident blackspot?

Those lovely self powered signs cost £80,000 each! Yes, you read correctly. My late Husband was a councillor and he shared these little facts with me from time to time.

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#5 18-05-09 22:27:11

la.monikita
Verified Member
From: SE LONDON / KENT
Registered: 12-03-05
Posts: 3,064

Re: Signs with yellow background? Does it mean accident blackspot?

Those lovely self powered signs cost £80,000 each! Yes, you read correctly. My late Husband was a councillor and he shared these little facts with me from time to time.

...and the camera partnership had told me that they are being paid for by the fines collected from the speeding fines...but the truth might be different, who knows neutral


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#6 19-05-09 16:37:03

Kev D
Verified Member
From: Cheshire
Registered: 25-06-06
Posts: 306

Re: Signs with yellow background? Does it mean accident blackspot?

If you select the correct pupil with the right sense of humour, you can use a different name for these signs which will often raise a giggle (sometimes offend if its the wrong pupil so obviously caution is advised) but the added bonus is that they will want to look for them in future to avoid being tagged by the new name.

DB Signs - Dumb B*st**d Signs. 

As others have pointed out these signs cost extra than your normal warning or regulatory signs and are therefore often placed where there is a history of accidents so it can be used as an extra warning that other people may have made errors leading to collisions in relation to that hazard or regulation.  More money spent = more cars bent!

Oh I do hope the readers take this post within the spirit which it is intended!!!
:evil:  wink tongue


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#7 19-05-09 18:44:49

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Signs with yellow background? Does it mean accident blackspot?

....DB Signs - Dumb B*st**d Signs.  ....

Absolutely love it!  Brill.

Must try and remember this one for the right pupil.

Nigel big_smile


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#8 19-05-09 19:52:15

hector
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From: Manchester
Registered: 04-04-06
Posts: 2,097
Website

Re: Signs with yellow background? Does it mean accident blackspot?

Hi jlo31,

As above plus

Yellow background against sky (Most highlited signs)
Grey background against fields, for example steep downhill with rural background


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#9 19-05-09 20:38:20

jlo31
Verified Member
Registered: 17-02-09
Posts: 194
Website

Re: Signs with yellow background? Does it mean accident blackspot?

That is somthing I did not know. Thanks Nigel.
Best wishes

Jlo31


RoSPA Diploma in Advanced Driving Instruction
IAM Motorcycle
DSA ADI (Car)
DSA Fleet registered trainer (Grade 5)
www.PrecisionDriverTraining.co.

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#10 19-05-09 21:03:14

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Signs with yellow background? Does it mean accident blackspot?

Hi jlo31,

As above plus

Yellow background against sky (Most highlited signs)....

Which can become a problem when some councils to that to Give Way signs - you then see a square sillhouette against the sky rather than an upturned triangle! :x

Nigel


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#11 19-05-09 21:49:11

pegasus
Verified Member
From: north west
Registered: 25-02-05
Posts: 3,297

Re: Signs with yellow background? Does it mean accident blackspot?

Hi Nigel
2 signs which really shouldn't have square backgrounds.
STOP and GIVEWAY

Unique shapes which can be recognised even when obscured by snow.

Was one of the Theory Test questions at one time, might still be I haven't bought a book or disc for a few years.

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#12 19-05-09 22:55:12

Kev D
Verified Member
From: Cheshire
Registered: 25-06-06
Posts: 306

Re: Signs with yellow background? Does it mean accident blackspot?

Hi Nigel
2 signs which really shouldn't have square backgrounds.
STOP and GIVEWAY

Unique shapes which can be recognised even when obscured by snow.

Was one of the Theory Test questions at one time, might still be I haven't bought a book or disc for a few years.

I agree with the above, however in my humble opinion I do think it is ok to highlight these signs when they are placed prior to the junction with a distance displayed underneath but the signs at the junction should retain their original shape as per reasons stated above.


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Grade 6 ADI - May 2013

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#13 20-05-09 05:28:43

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Signs with yellow background? Does it mean accident blackspot?

gloucestershire county council seem to be quite active in putting he yellow square around Give Way signs and Wiltshire have done with one or two.  Haven't made time to visit some of these signs with my camera at teh right time of day (ie sun behind them) to show the 'error of their ways'!

Nigel


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#14 20-05-09 17:45:30

sipin
Verified Member
Registered: 26-03-06
Posts: 232

Re: Signs with yellow background? Does it mean accident blackspot?

You might find the following taken from Chapter 7 of the Road Signs Bible, otherwise known as 'Traffic Signs Manual' interesting, although a lot of time the councils will put up the yellow backing where there have been problems some councils have been pro-active (like Gloucestershire and Warwickshire) and used the yellow backing to prevent the hazard becoming an accident black spot.

Anyway Chapter 7 say's

14.19 To improve conspicuity against a complex or dark background, a sign may be mounted on either a grey or a yellow backing board (direction 42(5)). This board must not be provided with an additional black border. White backing boards are not permitted. No legend may be applied directly to a backing board. Under no circumstances must striped or chequered backing boards be used. Not only are these unsightly, but they tend to camouflage the sign by breaking up its outline. They are also unlawful. Where a yellow board is used, this should not have the appearance of an additional sign border. The minimum width of any yellow area on a single rectangular sign should therefore be 6 sw. In the case of the chevron sign shown in diagram 515, the width of the yellow area should not be less than half the horizontal width of the white chevron. Triangular yellow borders and circular backing boards producing a bullseye effect are not permitted (direction 42(6)).

14.20 Yellow backing boards, particularly if they use fluorescent material, can be very effective in drawing attention to signs mounted in deep shadow, for example below overhanging trees.

14.21 There are, however, potential disadvantages to the use of backing boards. A grey board can deprive triangular and circular signs of a primary recognition aid, their distinctive silhouettes. Yellow backing boards can be environmentally intrusive, and their over-use could eventually devalue their attention-attracting benefits. A less garish way of increasing a sign’s conspicuity may be simply to provide a standard sign of larger size. Not only will this be more noticeable than a smaller sign, but it will also improve legibility and hence reading distance, which a yellow backing board cannot.



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#15 20-05-09 20:38:46

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Signs with yellow background? Does it mean accident blackspot?

I hardly think putting a rectangular yellow background around a give way sign )which is what Gloucestershire council appear to have done a lot of) can be classed as pro-active.  Insane and dangerous?  Yes!  Pro-active? No!

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#16 22-06-09 13:55:36

nigel
Verified Member
From: surrey
Registered: 01-12-06
Posts: 183

Re: Signs with yellow background? Does it mean accident blackspot?

maybe they could try cutting the hedges so i can see the sign in the first place.


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#17 28-06-09 14:58:34

ralge
Verified Member
From: Sheffield
Registered: 10-01-07
Posts: 320

Re: Signs with yellow background? Does it mean accident blackspot?

As stated above, Councils spend money reactively, generally.
You will know junctions where the council has put one sign up, then two, then backed it in yellow, then painted the road to narrow it or make it look narrow, put in kerbs to produce a chicane, painted a hatched area in the centre, drawn bike lanes where no bikers have ever been  etc. etc.

The yellow backing costs £68 per sq. metre, I'm told.


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#18 28-07-09 21:08:44

barrykenward
Verified Member
From: Portchester Nr Fareham
Registered: 26-07-09
Posts: 53

Re: Signs with yellow background? Does it mean accident blackspot?

Hi folks,

Sipin - good post - saved me looking it up - I think it is Chapter 8 (as opposed to 7) - at least it was in my day.

I also used to be one of 6 trainers for speed cameras in the Hampshire Group and all signage was paid for from fines, once it had paid for the equipment - we had 3 vans intially - one of which I operated for 7 years in the South East Hampshire area. The Ethos has changed a bit since HMG realised they could take a big whack of the money raised - hence we have so many trees need cutting back that cover signs.

The Yellow reflective backing I tell all clients (Learners and Fleet alike) "this is your WAKE UP CALL" - because the next hazard needs extra attention - there is a HISTORY in this area/junction/zone call it what you will.

You will also not that many now use ESSO GRIP at these junctions to assist in added friction when stopping after they have got it wrong.  Usually beige in colour.

Now if you see the Esso grip in Red that generally means there have been fatalities. You may also see the word SLOW written on the road - SPEED SLOW OBSERVE WARNING - if there is RED esso grip front and back the injury was life threatening or critical and if the SLOW is on top of a RED ESSO GRIP that means the area has had a fatality.

Sadly this information is not generally known - something I have picked up with my association with my county council (as a Traffic Officer) who are very proactive . They are now putting up YELLOW REFLECTIVE POSTS either side of junctions to hightlight that junction and one opposite the junction so any traffic approaching the junction can see (at night) where it is more clearly.

Snippets of info which I hope you all find useful.

Regards,

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#19 28-07-09 22:13:55

jlo31
Verified Member
Registered: 17-02-09
Posts: 194
Website

Re: Signs with yellow background? Does it mean accident blackspot?

That is really interesting info. Many thanks for posting that.

Best wishes

Jlo31


RoSPA Diploma in Advanced Driving Instruction
IAM Motorcycle
DSA ADI (Car)
DSA Fleet registered trainer (Grade 5)
www.PrecisionDriverTraining.co.

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#20 28-07-09 22:23:25

ralge
Verified Member
From: Sheffield
Registered: 10-01-07
Posts: 320

Re: Signs with yellow background? Does it mean accident blackspot?

Hi folks,

Sipin - good post - saved me looking it up - I think it is Chapter 8 (as opposed to 7) - at least it was in my day.

I also used to be one of 6 trainers for speed cameras in the Hampshire Group and all signage was paid for from fines, once it had paid for the equipment - we had 3 vans intially - one of which I operated for 7 years in the South East Hampshire area. The Ethos has changed a bit since HMG realised they could take a big whack of the money raised - hence we have so many trees need cutting back that cover signs.

The Yellow reflective backing I tell all clients (Learners and Fleet alike) "this is your WAKE UP CALL" - because the next hazard needs extra attention - there is a HISTORY in this area/junction/zone call it what you will.

You will also not that many now use ESSO GRIP at these junctions to assist in added friction when stopping after they have got it wrong.  Usually beige in colour.

Now if you see the Esso grip in Red that generally means there have been fatalities. You may also see the word SLOW written on the road - SPEED SLOW OBSERVE WARNING - if there is RED esso grip front and back the injury was life threatening or critical and if the SLOW is on top of a RED ESSO GRIP that means the area has had a fatality.

Sadly this information is not generally known - something I have picked up with my association with my county council (as a Traffic Officer) who are very proactive . They are now putting up YELLOW REFLECTIVE POSTS either side of junctions to hightlight that junction and one opposite the junction so any traffic approaching the junction can see (at night) where it is more clearly.

Snippets of info which I hope you all find useful.

Regards,

Very useful as it backs up what I already pass on to delegates - my way of getting their attention?
A question: What's the red paint for?
To cover the blood!


DSA Fleet Trainer, RoSPA Dip, PTLLS, Safed for Vans, NDAC/Speed Awareness on-road trainer, RoSPA RoAD Test Examiner.

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#21 28-07-09 23:23:00

barrykenward
Verified Member
From: Portchester Nr Fareham
Registered: 26-07-09
Posts: 53

Re: Signs with yellow background? Does it mean accident blackspot?

Hi Folks,

Strangely enough - during the Napoleonic wars - Royal Navy ships had the medical centre floor painted RED for that very reason. The medical centre was a deck aft to midships where the movement was the least so the surgeon could cut away to his hearts content -  yikes

I make this connection and assumption that a similar or same thought process was applied for the RED Esso grip.

Regards,

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#22 29-07-09 05:59:06

pegasus
Verified Member
From: north west
Registered: 25-02-05
Posts: 3,297

Re: Signs with yellow background? Does it mean accident blackspot?

Hi
Strange, beige tarmac I have seen and understood to be skid resistant, one brand of which is called ShellGrip.

The position of virtually all the red tarmac in my area suggests that it is no more than a highlight to make the white lines show up better, (cycle lanes and advanced stop positions, between the whitelines of hatch markings etc)  the same sorts of places that other authorities have been observed to use Blue or Green.

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#23 29-07-09 07:36:10

barrykenward
Verified Member
From: Portchester Nr Fareham
Registered: 26-07-09
Posts: 53

Re: Signs with yellow background? Does it mean accident blackspot?

Morning Pegasus,

Precisely the job of work it does - highlight areas of potential danger.

When you and I were just boys and cycle lanes were just starting to be paid for by EU money, and the only colour used was Red, these were the only areas (to begin with) that warranted this pretty colour change of road surface. Now it appears the colour is a by product - just to make it different from the main road surface colour - we too have green for cycle lanes in Hampshire - but mostly still red.  The count Council tend to use red for junction work as a result of serious history problems - but it certainly makes people think when one talks about the reasons for accentuating the road colour at these locations.

Even back in the early 1980's when change of road surface colour to determine one road from another, the different colours were only grey or black.

I think now there are so many trade names for this surface it is difficult to keep up with it. Can't remember who invented it - I might be wrong but I believe is was SHELL. Maybe you can throw light on the subject?

Cheers,
Regards,

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#24 29-07-09 22:00:33

Madiggy
Verified Member
From: UK
Registered: 07-06-05
Posts: 364

Re: Signs with yellow background? Does it mean accident blackspot?

All of these additions cost us the tax payer money, and because of that those spending our money must have a system to openly justify any additional expenditure hence the more money spent the greater the danger.

What seems to be emerging is a scattering of different county councils basic criteria for spending the extra cash. Remember it will be associated with proven results.
So what ever explanation is given you can be assured that the level of risk has risen in that area.

Ian Green


CONFIDENTIAL CHECK TEST TRAINING
http://www.centraladitraining.co.uk/
Life & Executive Coaching
http://www.aicoachingsolutions.com

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#25 30-07-09 07:32:42

barrykenward
Verified Member
From: Portchester Nr Fareham
Registered: 26-07-09
Posts: 53

Re: Signs with yellow background? Does it mean accident blackspot?

Precicely Ian,

When you consider the cost of a Class I sign (in my time) that is fully reflective would cost many hundreds of pounds for something like a primary speed sign. (E.g. A 40mph of 900mm Dia.)

Motorway signs are tens of thousands of pounds - all of which no doubt have gone up expotentially in the last 7 years.

Regards,

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