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#26 03-06-09 13:56:34

bezzaboy1978
Verified Member
Registered: 28-05-09
Posts: 22

Re: Anyone training with the A.A.

and before you went out on your own I would want to be mentoring you for the first few months of your teaching career, you will not get this if you simply pass the part three and then go on to teach with a large franchise, despite their promises!!

The quote above indicates that I wouldn't be out on my own, that is what I would find demoralising!! Apologies if I am taking this out of context!!

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03-06-09 13:56:34

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Re: Anyone training with the A.A.



#27 03-06-09 18:02:33

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Anyone training with the A.A.

I'm sorry, but if you expect to know everything once you have passed your part 3 then you have a huge shock coming your way.  I have been in this profession now for 6 years and I am still learning.  I still attend courses and I glean a lot of information from this and other forums.

The idea of mentoring someone is simply being available to give help when and where it may be needed.

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#28 03-06-09 20:44:04

Woodyloon
Verified Member
From: North East Scotland
Registered: 26-04-09
Posts: 64

Re: Anyone training with the A.A.

I'm sorry, but if you expect to know everything once you have passed your part 3 then you have a huge shock coming your way.  I have been in this profession now for 6 years and I am still learning.  I still attend courses and I glean a lot of information from this and other forums.

The idea of mentoring someone is simply being available to give help when and where it may be needed.

Nigel

Hi Nigel

In your experience what does the franchise company that you work for offer after passing your part 3 if they take a take a franchise on? Is it just a coach or is it feasible to say for example sit in on your DIT Trainer day to day lessons to get a grasp of how they turn all that is learnt into a teaching lesson.

Thanks

John


Part 1   30/10/09   100/67
Part 2   29/9/10     2 d/f

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#29 03-06-09 21:12:12

evanadi
Guest

Re: Anyone training with the A.A.

I see your point on that Martyn but I have a different view on that. I have worked very very hard on training and HOPEFULLY becoming an ADI. Once qualified, this is where you get the feeling of pride that all of your hard work has paid off, all 3 exams passed and the opportunity to start your own business which is what a lot of people strive for. I feel that after all that time studying and practising and passing the exams, only to be mentored further for a few months would be quite demoralising, almost as if you are still not trusted to be able to teach pupils.Surely if you were not up to the standard of being able to teach, you would fail part 3?   roll

Interesting post, try reading some of Johnp's posts and his ideas, then see how much you have learned doing your part 3, (hope you don't mind me mentioning your name John). Totally agree with Nigel, this (like and other job), is a constant learning curve. There are and always will be people you can learn from (don't discount the pupils in that equation either). The part 3 pass is a basic skeleton to hang your meat on, how you do it is up to you, but for goodness sake be open to suggestion, criticism, and education from those with more experience and more knowledge. In amongst the bowels of this forum you will find pearls of wisdom, nuggets of help that are very useful from people who give of their time freely and have decided that they would like to share their knowledge.

Ev
wink


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#30 03-06-09 21:52:05

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Anyone training with the A.A.

....Hi Nigel

In your experience what does the franchise company that you work for offer after passing your part 3 if they take a take a franchise on? Is it just a coach or is it feasible to say for example sit in on your DIT Trainer day to day lessons to get a grasp of how they turn all that is learnt into a teaching lesson.

Thanks

John

If you take on a franchise with teh AA you will be allocated a coach.  You will, initially have a 2 hour meeting with the coach and you may get 1 or 2 further meetings, though these may be phone meetings rather than face to face.  As with a lot of things, a lot will depend on the individuals concerned.

While you are training, it will depend on the DIT trainer concerned as to whether you will be able to sit in on any lessons your trainer gives to learners.

I probably wouldn't be a good example as I don't tend to plan and structure a learner lesson in a way the DSA would expect.

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#31 04-06-09 06:21:04

Martyn Bryan
Verified Member
Registered: 19-02-09
Posts: 38

Re: Anyone training with the A.A.

The truth is that you will only get what you are prepared to pay for, the minimum coaching levels given by the AAds are NOT designed to help you improve as an ADI but to RETAIN you as a franchisee, why would the AAds want to help you improve? It is cost effective to have you just good enough, cos if you decide to leave they lose money, and as people become more confident they TEND to leave the larger franchises. This is NOT always the case, but a natural drifting away from these franchises does happen.

The AAds are now charging a lot of money for upskilling courses that used to be free of charge, ask why. It must be in their best interests to have a highly skilled workforce?

Not at all, it again leads to people getting their own ideas and leaving!!!

So a coaches role is not to help you improve, but to keep you for the company, even some of the coaches don't get this, they think  what they do is to help you improve, and bless some of them, they do that if they can, but at their own cost.

Large franchises make a good deal of money from the pockets of their franchisees. I cannot see why an ADI would want to give a middle man so many thousands of pounds a year just to belong to a brand.

I see some of the good points of a franchise with the AA or BSM etc, as some of you will know I have had franchises with both of these, I found them strangling and expensive, at a few points in my life they have come to the rescue, but then they quickly became a real pain and drag on my income.

I offered the AAds a way of providing training to their ADIs in terms of check Tests, ADI Part 2 and 3, but all fell on deaf ears, too expensive, not for them etc etc, narrow minded I thought, but then i looked at it, and education is a dangerous thing for this business that relies upon people believing that they are not going to do OK on their own.

So just to sum up, RETENTION  not EDUCATION....

Martyn Bryan


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#32 04-06-09 20:33:40

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Anyone training with the A.A.

What an interesting pile of bullsh1t Martyn!

Lin (Webb), did you only ever work to retain teh franchisees you were coach to?  No, I didn't think so.  and nor do I.  The time I spend with the franchisees I am coach to is paid for by the AA.  I am not, however, restricted in what I can do to help the franchisee, so I will cover whatever the franchisee would like me to cover.

Martyn, you obviously have issues with teh AA but don't tar everyone on an AA franchise with teh same brush - it takes away the objectivity that can often be typical of your posts and can be quite insulting/offensive.

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#33 05-06-09 11:03:22

Martyn Bryan
Verified Member
Registered: 19-02-09
Posts: 38

Re: Anyone training with the A.A.

Nigel taking that personally was completely off the mark, I include you in the group of people who work hard to help the franchisees you support, the issues I have with the AAds are long and arduous, and I firmly believe that from their point of view the use of coaches IS to retain rather than educate.

Had you been in the meeting I was in with angela Yates in 2007 the retention issue would be foremost in your mind too.

Instructor churn in the AAds is an issue with them.  Why?  Because profit comes before skills, the business model of any franchise is to make money from the francisees who trade under the name. That money is found (and maximised) by giving as little as possible for as much as possible.

Any business is the same..... or is it?  A training institution, a forward looking business realises that investment in training is investment in the future.  Nigel, how much is the fleet course now?  cos a few years ago it was free.

how much is a pupil costing the franchisee? Cos a few years ago, guess what? they were free too.

We have spent a few years now debating the issues with large franchises, the AAds are no different from the rest, and to put a figure on it, 40% of ADIs with the AAds leave each year,

Angela Yates was given a target when she began with the AAds, to achieve 2000 vehicles. she attained that target, through the coaches. I am well aware that AA coaches operate to help others, that is why they take on the role, but be under no illusions, the driving school don't give a damn about standards, otherwise why would they allow so many new ADIs, so many people doing ADI training with no qualification, (other than passing a half hearted attempt at a "course" why do they not even monitor check testing??

The real deal is that I have respect for those that try to help others Nigel, but NOT the establishment that does not.

The Bullsh1t bit in your post was offensive, but I guess I can take that on the chin.

Martyn Bryan   roll

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#34 05-06-09 16:19:57

Aspyre
Member
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: Anyone training with the A.A.

instructor churn is an issue with ANY franchise.... franchisees are always being urged to go independant by the majority of other adis any way.

who was it who said "i can't see why any one would want to pay some one else..."?

and yet each one of those would give there right arm to build up a business making as much money as a large franchise does.

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#35 05-06-09 22:13:05

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Anyone training with the A.A.

....Nigel, how much is the fleet course now?  cos a few years ago it was free.

It was free when the AA needed more CDT trainers.  Should they have simply withdrawn the course when they had reached teh number of trainers required?  I think they did the right thing in making the course available to those that want to become fleet registered.  Personally I think the RoSPA Diploma is more widely respected and so would be more useful.

how much is a pupil costing the franchisee? Cos a few years ago, guess what? they were free too.

But how much was the franchise?

The Bullsh1t bit in your post was offensive, but I guess I can take that on the chin.

As were your comments!

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#36 06-06-09 09:30:58

Martyn Bryan
Verified Member
Registered: 19-02-09
Posts: 38

Re: Anyone training with the A.A.

Nigel i am not going to have a war of words with you, I respect you far more than you think!

Aspyre, some of us do not want to build a huge business, we are more concerned woith building an ethical business, and that is my issue with the AAds, sorry if that is offensive to some but there you go, I will not back off my principles,

I am not going to post any more on this thread as it is clearly upsetting for some people that I have a healthy respect for,


sad neutral

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#37 16-06-09 09:33:53

bezzaboy1978
Verified Member
Registered: 28-05-09
Posts: 22

Re: Anyone training with the A.A.

GUYS, CHILL OUT!!! I thought forums were to help and support each other, not start WW3!! It seems to me that quite a few people take things out of context!!  yikes

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#38 16-06-09 14:56:44

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Anyone training with the A.A.

Previous post to this was 10 days ago.  Why the need to give it a little stir?

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#39 17-06-09 07:30:55

bezzaboy1978
Verified Member
Registered: 28-05-09
Posts: 22

Re: Anyone training with the A.A.

Been on holiday, not stirring at all, you need to maybe be aware of how your comments come across and affect others?? Just a suggestion!!   roll

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#40 17-06-09 08:32:57

Martyn Bryan
Verified Member
Registered: 19-02-09
Posts: 38

Re: Anyone training with the A.A.

Chaps, internet forums are sometimes difficult to read and understand because we lose nearly 80% of effective communication.  no eye contact, no body language, so interpreting the written word is often not as simple as it looks.

Posting on these forums can be knee jerk reaction to a phrase or "out of context" comment, and other times be clear and meaningful.

i would be misleading you if I said I always consider what i write before i start typing, I don't, but maybe I should, as there are people who have differing points of view that need to be listened to rather than talked over.......

So can we put the "offensive comments" bit down to experience??

I suggest that personal comments re other members should be discontinued, writing in a way that says what you believe, rather than saying where someone else is wrong would be a great start........

Martyn Bryan

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#41 17-06-09 12:33:30

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Anyone training with the A.A.

Been on holiday, not stirring at all, you need to maybe be aware of how your comments come across and affect others?? Just a suggestion!!   roll

Do I really?

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#42 17-06-09 14:30:55

bezzaboy1978
Verified Member
Registered: 28-05-09
Posts: 22

Re: Anyone training with the A.A.

I agree with Martyn, this is not the place for silly arguments, this all started because I misunderstood what someone said, thats all, then my commebts were taken out of context. I will say nothing else on the matter as this appears to be getting way too personal and seems to be diverting away from the actual driving topic!!! I apologise if I offended anybody!! Keep smiling and the world smiles with you!!!  big_smile

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#43 25-07-09 20:41:58

Mars
Verified Member
Registered: 01-06-08
Posts: 42
Website

Re: Anyone training with the A.A.

Hi, I am a trainer with AADS and would like to make the following clear :

   a)  Further training over and above the 60hrs paid for is easily arranged.

   b)  Any ADI can take on a pink licence holder and I do just that (not under the AADS banner).

   c)  The quality of training you get (in my opinion) is almost entirely dependent on the individual quality of your trainer........it doesnt (again in my opinion) have much to do with which school you go to.

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