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#1 21-07-09 11:10:39

paulcook
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From: Edinburgh
Registered: 13-05-08
Posts: 130
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I.A.R. versus Pupil control v's Preventative instruction: TOTALLY CONFUSED

Geting demoralised. 

The examiner failed me on my last part 3 because I never asked WHY he was making errors, so scored me low on fault analysis.  In addition, he said I controlled him too much and consequently we couldn't see if learning was taking place.   My style is the result of 55+ hours of instruction form my trainer, who's biased far more towards pupil control / preventative instruction than I.A.R.

Actually, it's the examiner's opinion that makes more sense to me, so i felt the penny was finally dropping.  I was ready to focus on that until yesterday's session with my grade 6 trainer.  I tested out my new approach of I.A.R., and scored me low because I allowed my preventative instruction / pupil control to ease off.  I was doing this deliberately, to see whether learning had taken place.  Then I got in with I.A.R. on the faults.   

So can someone shed some light, on where my emphasis should be (for phase 1 pupils) i.e. see the 2 options below: 

1) Heavily biased towards pupil control, full talk through, with lots of preventative instruction. i.e. close as many possibilities as possible for the examiner to commit faults.

or

2) After the pupil makes his/her first couple of attempts at the skill, ease off on the level of control and wait to see if learning has taken place.  Then I.A.R. the pupil on those faults that are made.

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.


Paul Cook, ADI, Grade 5, DIAmond Special Test

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21-07-09 11:10:39

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Re: I.A.R. versus Pupil control v's Preventative instruction: TOTALLY CONFUSED



#2 21-07-09 12:06:47

Cat8t3
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From: Droitwich - Worcestershire
Registered: 28-08-07
Posts: 339

Re: I.A.R. versus Pupil control v's Preventative instruction: TOTALLY CONFUSED

I would say number 2. My trainer had his ordit check test and asked me to be his pupil for it. It was a gtreat experience, but the SE spoke to me aswall after and said that see it say it sort it, should be used more often. It is known that you should do a full talk through on Phase 1, then prmpted practice then idependant practice. Keep control of the lesson, so say for instance you think he should have signalled by now, prompt him, and then ask why it is important to do it at that time.

I dont know wether this is a good examaple, but When i did my Part 3 a few weeks ago, it was PST 6. I did my briefing on Ped crossing explaining about not parking or overtaking on the zig zag lines. Just so happened that on a ped crossing a van was unloading on the zig zag's, so rather than me ditating to the pupil that is why we dont do it, because we cant see if a ped is there and that me they cant see us. I asked the pupil, so by that van being there what do you think he is doing, what cant you see? So if you cant see them, what do you think the ped might not be able to see? So i was really asking the pupil what he understood from my briefing, if he hadnt of known the answer then i could have told him.

If are constantly telling the pupil what to do next, then surely your not giving them oportunity to think for themselves. My opinion of the part 3 is purely to see it say it sort it and talk through, prompted practice, independant, allow the pupil to learn.

I subquently did'nt pass my part 3 but i was close.

Better luck next time, you can do it. smile


1st Check Test 15/09/2010 - Grade 4
2nd Check Test 09/01/2013 - Grade 4

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#3 21-07-09 12:30:27

paulcook
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From: Edinburgh
Registered: 13-05-08
Posts: 130
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Re: I.A.R. versus Pupil control v's Preventative instruction: TOTALLY CONFUSED

Thanks Cat, I agree.  It makes sense, as does your "see it, say it, sort it".  I guess the "analyse" bit comes as part of the "sort it".

Anyway, anyone else agree that option 2 is the best recipe for success at Part 3?   


Paul Cook, ADI, Grade 5, DIAmond Special Test

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#4 21-07-09 13:17:13

mon
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From: Lurgan Co.Armagh
Registered: 08-11-08
Posts: 418
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Re: I.A.R. versus Pupil control v's Preventative instruction: TOTALLY CONFUSED

Hi Paul,I think the analyse bit would be (say it) and a tip I got of my trainer is to simply start your analyse everytime with : Ok the problem with doing it that/this way is blah blah blah.....
I know where your coming from with getting demoralised I am on 50 hours also and know I should be alot more confident,but stick at it,there are some horror stories on these forums about ADIs who have taken 5  or even 6 goes to put this baby to bed.These Instructors are open about the difficulty they once had,and are always approachable for encouragement to keep going.
Mon


From Striving to Driving.....Lurgan Co.Armagh

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#5 21-07-09 14:28:23

venesh
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Registered: 08-06-09
Posts: 23

Re: I.A.R. versus Pupil control v's Preventative instruction: TOTALLY CONFUSED

just ask questions....if he makes a mistake then sort it.......................i noticed you did bla bla.........wats the concequences.........how we gonna fix it next time

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#6 21-07-09 18:03:47

IceWarrior
Member
From: England
Registered: 07-07-09
Posts: 13

Re: I.A.R. versus Pupil control v's Preventative instruction: TOTALLY CONFUSED

Greetings Paul,

Why IAR when you could be PROACTIVE?

IceWarrior

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#7 21-07-09 20:11:05

TDW
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From: Yorkshire
Registered: 08-05-09
Posts: 84

Re: I.A.R. versus Pupil control v's Preventative instruction: TOTALLY CONFUSED

Because pupils make mistakes so the first few times IAR then move onto prompting them with questions etc, once they start doing stuff without prompts ease off them and then praise. But you have to praise the bits that they got right besides IAR faults.

Pupils need to make faults otherwise you won't be able to explain why the fault occured.


Things fall to pieces so that other things can fall into place.

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#8 21-07-09 20:24:55

TDW
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From: Yorkshire
Registered: 08-05-09
Posts: 84

Re: I.A.R. versus Pupil control v's Preventative instruction: TOTALLY CONFUSED

On a side note Paul, it seems to me that your trainer is teaching you how to be a proactive Instructor, which is great but it doesn't help with part 3, the examiner is not a pupil, it's role play and you have to play their game. And you will also have to be reactive as an instructor because pupils do things you don't expect...... you cannot predict everything, but if you can, will you put my lottery numbers on at weekend please? wink


Things fall to pieces so that other things can fall into place.

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#9 21-07-09 20:50:20

jay666
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From: West Midlands
Registered: 15-04-09
Posts: 210
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Re: I.A.R. versus Pupil control v's Preventative instruction: TOTALLY CONFUSED

I would focus on the core comps I.A.R thats how im being taught

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#10 22-07-09 06:54:31

paulcook
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From: Edinburgh
Registered: 13-05-08
Posts: 130
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Re: I.A.R. versus Pupil control v's Preventative instruction: TOTALLY CONFUSED

Phew....I'm really relieved at the general opinion, which seems to be that the part 3 exam is based more on the core comps (IAR) than anything else.  Now I feel I can focus on this and present a slightly different "me" at my next attempt at part 3 in September.

I agree with TDW that my instructor is well intentioned in teaching me to be proactive and preventative - things that I will not forsake all together - but those strengths really shouldn't dominate my efforts in the exam or else I won't get to see whether learning is taking place.  And I'll risk the same criticisms from the examiner.


Paul Cook, ADI, Grade 5, DIAmond Special Test

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#11 25-07-09 21:08:49

Mars
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Registered: 01-06-08
Posts: 42
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Re: I.A.R. versus Pupil control v's Preventative instruction: TOTALLY CONFUSED

I tend to agree with option 2.  Something which I have my PDIs work to is, on seeing a fault then run through:

Why:  (why did the pupil do that or not do it - and dont be afraid to ask them)

Why Comply: (that is why should they comply with what you are telling them)

Remedy: (how are we, instructor and pupil, going to bring about the needed change)

I find this works a treat and is a more explicit version of the See It, Say It ,Sort It saying.

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#12 28-07-09 06:53:05

paulcook
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From: Edinburgh
Registered: 13-05-08
Posts: 130
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Re: I.A.R. versus Pupil control v's Preventative instruction: TOTALLY CONFUSED

Thanks Mars, I like the sound of that.  So far it seems that we all agree the core comps is crucial to passing this exam.   


Paul Cook, ADI, Grade 5, DIAmond Special Test

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#13 29-07-09 19:55:20

Mars
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Registered: 01-06-08
Posts: 42
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Re: I.A.R. versus Pupil control v's Preventative instruction: TOTALLY CONFUSED

The other thing to remember is not to let faults build up - if anything occurs which is not the way 'you would do it' it is worth a mention and possibly analysis.

The examiners (in my experience) are not sneaky, faults are there to be seen and should in the main be within PST so you have a 'heads up' right from the start.

Also teach at the right level - full prompt through on new subject backing off as seems appropriate, on Phase 2,  Q and A  to establish level of knowledge then watch, prompt if you see something going to go wrong but not talk through unless its part of the short remedy to a problem.  If you go to 'talk through' too much you cannot see the faults which would be committed or get to any wrong thinking/understanding on the part of the pupil.

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