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#1 14-07-09 09:22:43

paulcook
Verified Member
From: Edinburgh
Registered: 13-05-08
Posts: 130
Website

Roundabouts: Taking an intermediate exit (i.e. not the first or last exit).

I was in the back of my instructor's car the other day, watching him with a learner.  He allowed the pupil to do something yesterday at a roundabout that I thought was wrong...

Roundabout, 4 possible exits.  My view is that there is only 1 left (1st exit) and only 1 right (last exit).  The rest I would call "intermediate" exits.

When asking the pupil to take the 3rd exit, i.e. one of the intermediate ones, he allowed the pupil to signal to the right on the approach and choose the right hand lane. 

I felt this was wrong on the basis that, in the absence of direction signs painted on the road, I would have chosen the left lane on approach, and not signalled on approach. (Of course, I'd signal just prior to my exit, as normal).

When quizzed, my grade six tutor explained that the pupil was correct on the basis that the 3rd exit was "to the right", i.e. at around 2 o'clock on the roundabout. 

He's a grade 6, so I guess he's right and I'm wrong.  Do we all agree?   


Paul Cook, ADI, Grade 5, DIAmond Special Test

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14-07-09 09:22:43

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Re: Roundabouts: Taking an intermediate exit (i.e. not the first or last exit).



#2 14-07-09 11:27:19

reddragonbus
Verified Member
From: Edinburgh
Registered: 05-02-06
Posts: 1,653

Re: Roundabouts: Taking an intermediate exit (i.e. not the first or last exit).

Anything beyond 12 o'clock (straight ahead) is a right turn and should be treated as a right turn. Signal right on approach, position right lane.


LGV PCV Instructor DVSA ADI Fleet

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#3 14-07-09 11:33:06

paulcook
Verified Member
From: Edinburgh
Registered: 13-05-08
Posts: 130
Website

Re: Roundabouts: Taking an intermediate exit (i.e. not the first or last exit).

Thanks for that.  Bit worrying that I still have a knowledge gap at this stage of my training......

You live and learn I guess.   


Paul Cook, ADI, Grade 5, DIAmond Special Test

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#4 14-07-09 14:11:18

GrahamADI
Verified Member
From: Wisbech, Cambs
Registered: 20-06-07
Posts: 150

Re: Roundabouts: Taking an intermediate exit (i.e. not the first or last exit).

Just bear in mind that every situation is different (thought I'd get in there first!)

For bog standard, every road is equal size, same number of lanes, the angle of the exit roads etc etc then normally I agree that anything beyond 12 is classed as a right turn. If the road layout etc is not normal then it could easily be classed as straight eg around my way there's a roundabout with 2 exits (not counting the entry road you're on). First exit is at 2 o'clock and the second is at 4 o'clock, so in this instance you don't signal and approach in the left lane.

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#5 17-07-09 11:33:40

Aspyre
Member
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: Roundabouts: Taking an intermediate exit (i.e. not the first or last exit).

should just point out that there is a r/b near here where 3rd exit from one entry road is waaaaay after 12 o clock and you can use either lane...... so you cannot say you MUST go in right lane or that you MUST indicate in all circumstances with out knowing the individual r/b and how it works at a local level.

you indicate if it helps other people (i know we all know that)........ it may also be that some times you indicate and some times you dont when using the exact same route.

Had a ppl yesetrday trying to go in the left lane of a big r/b trying to go straight ahead (but the lane was left turn only).... he said "but you said to go into the left lane when going ahead"..... he then admitted I also said "unless road markings indicate other wise, then follow those".. Theres no single way to do almost anything

which r/b is it Paul..... have you go a Google link??

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#6 17-07-09 12:15:27

paulcook
Verified Member
From: Edinburgh
Registered: 13-05-08
Posts: 130
Website

Re: Roundabouts: Taking an intermediate exit (i.e. not the first or last exit).

Hi Aspyre.  It's called Boghall roundabout in West Lothian.   I don't have anything as sophisticated as a google link but I think the exit in question was at the 2 o'clock position.

Based on the replies so far, it seems there's an unofficial "12 o'clock" rule, where anything beyond 12 is classed as a right turn.  It's encouraging to see however, that most replies seem to support common sense.  That's why I like this job - driving is basically common sense.


Paul Cook, ADI, Grade 5, DIAmond Special Test

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#7 17-07-09 12:53:39

Aspyre
Member
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: Roundabouts: Taking an intermediate exit (i.e. not the first or last exit).

is it this one?? if you zoom in and use the aerial view are those markings up to date?? which roads were you using??

if it isnt this one can you locate the one it is?? it must be quite close to this one..... i just picked the first one from that name you gave.

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#8 17-07-09 19:56:51

robcooling
Verified Member
From: Nottingham
Registered: 02-04-09
Posts: 1,451
Website

Re: Roundabouts: Taking an intermediate exit (i.e. not the first or last exit).

At the start of the Chalfont Drive test centre in Nottingham we first arrive at the roundabout shown in the link below:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source= … 06.44,,0,5

There are no arrows instructing which way is which, and I teach 'if it is past 12 o clock it is right turn'. So surely we have one left and two rights? Our examiners can't decide, when sitting in the back I've noticed most say 'continue ahead to the 2nd exit' but I would say it is 'turn right taking the 2nd exit off the roundabout'. Mine all indicate right even when the examiner says 'ahead' as they are used to it and it makes no difference.


Rob

http://www.appledriving.co.uk - Driving Lessons in Nottingham

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#9 17-07-09 20:05:00

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: Roundabouts: Taking an intermediate exit (i.e. not the first or last exit).

A right signal would tell me that you are turning into the road next to the petrol station.

I would give the same instruction as the examiners, i.e.  go ahead at the roundabout.

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#10 17-07-09 20:08:40

robcooling
Verified Member
From: Nottingham
Registered: 02-04-09
Posts: 1,451
Website

Re: Roundabouts: Taking an intermediate exit (i.e. not the first or last exit).

But some of the examiners do say the same as me, 'turn right taking the 2nd exit off the roundabout'.

I might start changing my instruction though, to what the majority of examiners say 'continue ahead to the 2nd exit'. But I know my pupils will say "what about the 12 o clock rule??" then it all gets confusing!


Rob

http://www.appledriving.co.uk - Driving Lessons in Nottingham

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#11 17-07-09 20:49:53

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: Roundabouts: Taking an intermediate exit (i.e. not the first or last exit).

There are lots of roundabouts where the 12 o clock rule is not appropriate.  Tell your pupils that and they won't get as confused.

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#12 17-07-09 20:57:46

Aspyre
Member
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: Roundabouts: Taking an intermediate exit (i.e. not the first or last exit).

if you indicate right then left after the 1st exit your not confusing any one.

if you just indicate left after the 1st exit your not confusing any one.

that will be why the examiners dont mind.... if it is clear and safe it dont matter.

a lot of things arent black or white.... but it is worth a look at the HC and rule 186 which says "when taking any intermediate exit you should not normally need to signal....." as some times using that 12 o clock rule could backfire.

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#13 18-07-09 05:51:21

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: Roundabouts: Taking an intermediate exit (i.e. not the first or last exit).

if you indicate right then left after the 1st exit your not confusing any one.

Depends what lane you approach in.  If you are in the left lane with a right signal on, that would confuse others.

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#14 18-07-09 06:03:06

Aspyre
Member
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: Roundabouts: Taking an intermediate exit (i.e. not the first or last exit).

that r/b has no left or right lane on that entry.

thats why i said indicating right is not confusing any body.. thats why the des dont pull people up one way or the other.

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#15 18-07-09 06:47:51

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: Roundabouts: Taking an intermediate exit (i.e. not the first or last exit).

that r/b has no left or right lane on that entry.

According to PaulCook it does.  His  first message  says

he allowed the pupil to signal to the right on the approach and choose the right hand lane. 
I felt this was wrong on the basis that, in the absence of direction signs painted on the road, I would have chosen the left lane on approach, and not signalled on approach. (Of course, I'd signal just prior to my exit, as normal).

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#16 18-07-09 11:23:08

Aspyre
Member
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: Roundabouts: Taking an intermediate exit (i.e. not the first or last exit).

im referring to rob coolings r/b and trust me..... i know.... that lane entry point from the TC is barely one car wide.. almost a chicane width.. you can see it from the google earth photo.

the fact remains that the 12 o clock rule doesnt work all the time so it doesnt work at all... and you indiate if it helps some one else.. we all know that.

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