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#1 15-05-09 11:36:41

Bouncer2005
Verified Member
Registered: 28-01-09
Posts: 81

1st Test Check looming!!!!!

Hi everyone

My 1st check test is looming, just under 3 weeks, and, I have to say, I am feeling VERY nervous!

I am quite a nervous person (remind me again why I am an adi big_smile) and I hate tests, finding part 3 a horrible experience. I feel I am doing well as an instructor, all my pupils seem happy and I have a lot of referalls from pupils etc and i always core comp in my lessons (though maybe, on occasions, not quite as regimented as on part 3 etc), but I feel, overall, I am keeping up with the job.

Reading through the threads on this forum, it is good to see so many positive experiences of the test and all my other adi colleagues say it is not like a part 3, but this is where I need, maybe, other people's thoughts and reassurances. 

Please tell me Why is it not like part 3? (apart from the obvious - ie My pupil, my subject, my route etc). Is the test much more relaxed than part 3?, are SEADI's usually more relaxed and 'on my side' during the test , hoping and expecting that I will do well?  Is it to be feared as much as part 3?  I guess I am looking for reassurance but all thought welcome. Ps I have booked extra training which I think will help somewhat.

Best regards

Bouncer

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15-05-09 11:36:41

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Re: 1st Test Check looming!!!!!




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#2 15-05-09 12:57:25

samds
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Registered: 21-01-08
Posts: 526
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Re: 1st Test Check looming!!!!!

Hi Bouncer

The thing I hate most about this forum is the peer pressure.
From the fear you are suggesting, even in the subject title, I'd say you have those feelings.

What could possibly go wrong? 

The SEADI gives us some pointers on how to improve, that's not so bad, we simply take some training and/or we develop
and practice the weaknesses.  We go back 3 months/2 years/4 years later and show them the improvements.

Good luck


At University studying Humanities with Literature and Music.

http://www.myspace.com/scottmacalister/

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#3 15-05-09 14:16:00

Bouncer2005
Verified Member
Registered: 28-01-09
Posts: 81

Re: 1st Test Check looming!!!!!

Hi smdtr

Thanks for the post.  When you put it like that, it does take some pressure off...think I need to get a grip, sometimes!

Cheers

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#4 15-05-09 15:18:03

smithwold
Verified Member
From: Berkshire
Registered: 18-08-07
Posts: 716
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Re: 1st Test Check looming!!!!!

Had my 1st C/t yesterday and was sad enough to actually look forward to it!!
First appraisal of my skills since passing pt3.

A bit similar to pt3 in someways but not others. (Unless doing role play)

Had a very sleepless night before, late change of student  (my choice) and just felt totally in control. My choice of subject matter, student, route and somebody in the back enjoying the ride.

Just be yourself. Make sure you have a student that has something to learn, doesn't matter what as long as they can progress or improve.

ADI examiner was incredibly relaxed and put me at ease, asked my student to go to the car and get herself ready while we chatted about her driving history and progress, asked what subject and pointed out to not be afraid of deviating should the need arise.

Chose meeting traffic. Student kept stalling car through nerves on emerging, so dealt with that at every junction whilst keeping meeting theme going at same time.  1 hr later, back to test centre.
Excellent debrief, all lighthearted and with some humour.

I survived and so will you too.

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#5 15-05-09 19:26:49

Lewinpeter1
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From: Morpeth,Northumberland
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 803
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Re: 1st Test Check looming!!!!!

Hi Bouncer
You specifically asked about the difference between part3 and a check test.
Part 3 is a pre set test,you know the faults the Ex will put in,sort them and problem sorted.
Check test with real pupil;you have a plan for their lesson;ie,sort out 'challenges' they have during turning right at light controlled junctions.
Briefing etc.done;off you go and at the 1st r/about ,they try to kill you!
What do you do now?
Sort out roundabouts.
It is not a part 3.
Hope this helps as it has taken me 7 years to grasp the difference and i think i am quite intelligent!!!!!!!!!!! big_smile big_smile big_smile
Peter


Dont press that,oh @@##!

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#6 17-05-09 12:23:56

ijmoore
Verified Member
From: Staffordshire
Registered: 25-10-06
Posts: 1,077
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Re: 1st Test Check looming!!!!!

Hi bouncer,

First off good luck!  The posts here are great!

I would get some training, if your not sure how the check test is conducted; this should have been covered during your training.

Analyse your own training and grade your self for all the items on the check test marking sheet.  e.g. Core comps, level of instruction,  planning, control, etc...

Look at the areas you could improve and work on them.  Practice the subject you think your going to cover.

Subject wise be careful, choose one you are confident with, but also preferably a "phase 2" subject - i.e. something delbt with on the move.  This is better than a "phase 1" subject because the examiner sees phase 1 all day long, and wants to mark your instructional skills, not your briefing and basic talk through skills generally.  I think i would recommend something like - Planning and Anticipation, Eco Driving, a more difficult manoevre already introduced that needs work, Mirror development, Progress........

Your mark should match your lowest grade in the level of instruction/core competencies, so if these are weak, work on them.

Finally make sure you structure your lesson correctly; use ROMPS

Recap - ensure you discuss last lesson and discuss how that will affect todays lesson

Objectives - Set a clear aim.  (e.g. to improve Planning ahead) Set clear objectives (e.g. by using Looking futher ahead (Far mid near and rear), Anticipating what is next, and using MSPSL)

Main Points - discuss objectives to check understanding, give some examples, and perhaps demonstrate what is expected?

Practice - leave LOTS of time to practice and develop driving- this is where most of your top grades will come in if you are good with core comps!

Summarise - Don't forget to leave time through the lesson to praise and feedback positive and negative points, but especially in the last 3-5 mins to check if you've met the aim and objectives?  Set some targets for next lesson if you have time!


Fleet Training
Iain Moore ADI Grade A, Fleet, RoSPA Tutor, DIAmond Ad, MSA National B Race License, EST Reg
fleet@learnmooredriving.co.uk 07999 992141

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#7 17-05-09 14:18:21

Doc
Verified Member
Registered: 11-02-06
Posts: 559
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Re: 1st Test Check looming!!!!!

Don't base your selection on what you think the examiner wants, base it on your pupil's needs. If that is a new topic, then so be it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that and anyone who believes the examiner will mark you negatively for it should supply good reason for believing that. The examiner will be able to gauge your skills either way.

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#8 17-05-09 17:08:37

ijmoore
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From: Staffordshire
Registered: 25-10-06
Posts: 1,077
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Re: 1st Test Check looming!!!!!

I agree, don't base the selection on what the examiner wants, BUT there are good subjects to do, and not so good subjects!

Of course, I am a great believer in that we should teach the same for a check test the same as normal, ie not change our teaching methods JUST for check test; to do it properly all the time!

I do however understand that sometimes this is not relevant for the student on a day to day basis, but generally it shouldn't be necessary to deviate too much!


Fleet Training
Iain Moore ADI Grade A, Fleet, RoSPA Tutor, DIAmond Ad, MSA National B Race License, EST Reg
fleet@learnmooredriving.co.uk 07999 992141

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#9 17-05-09 18:24:09

jonnmedds
Verified Member
From: Staffordshire
Registered: 25-02-04
Posts: 154

Re: 1st Test Check looming!!!!!

Of course, I am a great believer in that we should teach the same for a check test the same as normal, ie not change our teaching methods JUST for check test; to do it properly all the time!

Not sure I quite agree with what you've said there Ian. Is that what you did on your last check test?
Personally I think that if you want a decent grade you have to do it DSA way which lets be honest isn't always the best way is it?

Me personally i'd always go for role play.

Jon

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#10 17-05-09 18:28:29

smithwold
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From: Berkshire
Registered: 18-08-07
Posts: 716
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Re: 1st Test Check looming!!!!!

I was amazed that SE was so laid back.
As it was my first check test he ran through what it was all about.
Told me not to worry too much about over or under running as long it wasn't excessively.

He did ask me if I had any questions and "Can I go home now?" wasn't apparently acceptable!
He did however have a good memory and after the debrief, said that "Now you can go home".  All very lighthearted - unlike Pt 3.

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#11 17-05-09 18:46:22

ijmoore
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From: Staffordshire
Registered: 25-10-06
Posts: 1,077
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Re: 1st Test Check looming!!!!!

I understand what you are saying about it not been entirely the same as a normal lesson.  I should explain more clearly, I try and anaylise my own tution frequenty and try and do it the way I believe it should be done, most of which is DSA methodology.

Although some of my techniques are roadcraft style (limit points, progress at times, signalling) as apposed to DSA all the way the actual teaching side of things is DSA, teaching and coaching techniques the best I possibly can.  If I was doing a check test I would do it the same as I do any lesson I delivered this week.


Fleet Training
Iain Moore ADI Grade A, Fleet, RoSPA Tutor, DIAmond Ad, MSA National B Race License, EST Reg
fleet@learnmooredriving.co.uk 07999 992141

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#12 17-05-09 19:21:20

jonnmedds
Verified Member
From: Staffordshire
Registered: 25-02-04
Posts: 154

Re: 1st Test Check looming!!!!!

Ian I understand what you're saying and if it worked on your ct great, though sometimes DSA don't recognise differing ways of teaching such as when teaching those with learning disabilities.

Nice to see you're adding roadcraft techniques to your learners toolkit and contrary to what others sometimes say roadcraft principles can be a great help to learners. You mentioned teaching them roadcraft style signalling, what do you mean by that?

Jon

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#13 17-05-09 19:23:45

ijmoore
Verified Member
From: Staffordshire
Registered: 25-10-06
Posts: 1,077
Website

Re: 1st Test Check looming!!!!!

Not signalling unless necessary.  It improves mirrors before signalling!


Fleet Training
Iain Moore ADI Grade A, Fleet, RoSPA Tutor, DIAmond Ad, MSA National B Race License, EST Reg
fleet@learnmooredriving.co.uk 07999 992141

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#14 17-05-09 19:25:17

Bouncer2005
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Registered: 28-01-09
Posts: 81

Re: 1st Test Check looming!!!!!

Sorry to butt in, but thanks to everyone for the replies...lots of good advice and much appreciated!

Bouncer

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#15 17-05-09 19:36:41

jonnmedds
Verified Member
From: Staffordshire
Registered: 25-02-04
Posts: 154

Re: 1st Test Check looming!!!!!

Not signalling unless necessary.  It improves mirrors before signalling!

I understand what Roadcraft say's (just had to do an exam on it) as that's what i teach on advanced driving courses.
I've always been led to understand that DSA don't like to see unecessary signals but I also thought they were insisting that Learners were to signal when negotiating all junctions(contradicts itself I know). Which goes against what Roadcraft recommends.

Jon

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#16 18-05-09 06:40:33

ijmoore
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From: Staffordshire
Registered: 25-10-06
Posts: 1,077
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Re: 1st Test Check looming!!!!!

Dsa make it simple by saying signal everywhere. I think this is easier, but makes mirror checks poor. By putting the emphasis on mirrors before signalling in a couple of lessons helps no end.

My students generally signal at every junction on test, however I have had a couple of students who only signalled where necessary on test, and have not had a problem! It depends on examiner!


Fleet Training
Iain Moore ADI Grade A, Fleet, RoSPA Tutor, DIAmond Ad, MSA National B Race License, EST Reg
fleet@learnmooredriving.co.uk 07999 992141

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#17 18-05-09 14:00:46

Aspyre
Member
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: 1st Test Check looming!!!!!

"Dsa make it simple by saying signal everywhere"

Isnt that just a cynical adi opinion??

Essential Skills says "A signal might not be necesary where there is no one to benefit from it or where it could confuse others... consider signalling before moving off, pulling up, passing stationary vehicles when you can position early...... dont signal carelessly"

Not quite advising people to signal evry where as i read it.

As far as jcts goes, it may well depend on the examiner but it also depends on the ppl and the situation.. Probavly also important to remember that even if the adi is sat in just because he has a diffrent opinion to the de doesnt make him right.

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#18 18-05-09 14:24:03

jonnmedds
Verified Member
From: Staffordshire
Registered: 25-02-04
Posts: 154

Re: 1st Test Check looming!!!!!

Dsa make it simple by saying signal everywhere. I think this is easier, but makes mirror checks poor. By putting the emphasis on mirrors before signalling in a couple of lessons helps no end.

My students generally signal at every junction on test, however I have had a couple of students who only signalled where necessary on test, and have not had a problem! It depends on examiner!

I notice you offer ADI training Ian, would you recommend to your part 3 students that they teach  the SE during role play what it says in your last post.

Jon

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#19 18-05-09 19:36:01

ijmoore
Verified Member
From: Staffordshire
Registered: 25-10-06
Posts: 1,077
Website

Re: 1st Test Check looming!!!!!

When necessary, yes. 

Of course what was said in Essential Skills is correct, don't signal carelessly, consider it!

In covering signalling of course covering types, MSM, timing, where necessary etc.....


Fleet Training
Iain Moore ADI Grade A, Fleet, RoSPA Tutor, DIAmond Ad, MSA National B Race License, EST Reg
fleet@learnmooredriving.co.uk 07999 992141

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#20 18-05-09 19:49:39

jonnmedds
Verified Member
From: Staffordshire
Registered: 25-02-04
Posts: 154

Re: 1st Test Check looming!!!!!

Though in the section of Essential skills that talks about unnecessary signals it only mentions omitting one before, moving off, pulling up and passing stationary vehicles. As far as i'm aware it doesn't talk about omitting them when approaching junctions.

To be fair though i'm not sure that DSA examiners are totally sure where DSA stand on the matter. A couple of years ago I did a course to gain my fleet badge. Whilst there the course was being acreditted by a DSA ACDE.
He said that DSA expect signals to be used on the approach to all junctions. Personally I agree with the Roadcraft method of signalling, as, like you said Ian it does improve mirror use, it also encourages drivers to be more attentive and aware of whats around them. I put my thoughts to the ACDE and he said that DSA's rational behind always signalling for juctions is that learners are not experienced enough to decide if a signal is needed and if the situation changes and they suddenly do need a signal then they might forget to put one on:?

Jon

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#21 18-05-09 20:45:04

Aspyre
Member
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: 1st Test Check looming!!!!!

No it just mentions those as examples jon.. the key point is that a signal isnt always necesary **for example** when moving off under the section about signalling.. it doesnt say you MUST signal when turning it just says use MSMPSL and we all know the whole point of that is to decide if the signal IS necesary.

there are lots of times where there isnt an official stance and DEs do there own thing.

For a learner it isnt unreasonable to expecta signal every time when turning.. I explain to mine that if they can see it is absolutely clear then technically it isnt needed but that there arent that many times when you can be so sure so better safe than sorry.

I also point out it isnt wrong to signal in that case (on a turn) if it turns out theres no one there... but not signalling when there is is potentialy hazardous.

So basically what you said (or rather the DE)... that leaerners or new drivers arent skilled enough to make a tight call like that so dont confuse them.

I teach mine not to indicate to overtake or pull over except in certain situations (which we go through).. I cant stop some of them signalling every time they pull over and I know they do it on test but they are never faulted for it.. but Id never try and get them to not indicate for a right or left turn for the reasons you gave  smile

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#22 19-05-09 06:15:06

may
Verified Member
From: co.durham
Registered: 30-11-07
Posts: 199

Re: 1st Test Check looming!!!!!

I have my first check test in 3 weeks.

I did some training last week and as my part 3 struggled with role play. I thought my trainer was moving too quickly and also i don't teach in the area i was training in so it really was back to part 3. I couldn't keep control, i got flustered on my anylsis and completly forgot remedial. He is sitting in on my lesson tonight so he can see what i'm like with a pupil.
after that training session it knocked my confidence, wasn't sure if i was cut out for the job. I then went and did a lesson and thought no i can do this job just have a problem with role play!

I am very nervous, its the word test that does it. hate tests.

Still unsure of which pupil, as one would like to do it but not sure if she is available. Another one is to use one of my disabled and more challenging pupils, only problem with him is that he likes to say why he did something wrong then i have to go through it all.

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#23 19-05-09 06:43:27

ijmoore
Verified Member
From: Staffordshire
Registered: 25-10-06
Posts: 1,077
Website

Re: 1st Test Check looming!!!!!

Don't worry! You said you did not know the area! Well that makes a difference even if your trainer is directing.

Also you knew you missed out the remedial action. It sounds like you were struggling to keep up, put a pull up in! Don't rush!

Use the time to summarise and explain things, set new targets with your "pupil" for the next 10mins....

You have time to practice with other pupils, and good knowledge too. If it is your first check test-it is just to help you develop!

Good lucks


Fleet Training
Iain Moore ADI Grade A, Fleet, RoSPA Tutor, DIAmond Ad, MSA National B Race License, EST Reg
fleet@learnmooredriving.co.uk 07999 992141

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#24 19-05-09 08:00:44

samds
Verified Member
Registered: 21-01-08
Posts: 526
Website

Re: 1st Test Check looming!!!!!

I have my first check test in 3 weeks.

I did some training last week and as my part 3 struggled with role play. I thought my trainer was moving too quickly and also i don't teach in the area i was training in so it really was back to part 3. I couldn't keep control, i got flustered on my anylsis and completly forgot remedial. He is sitting in on my lesson tonight so he can see what i'm like with a pupil.
after that training session it knocked my confidence, wasn't sure if i was cut out for the job. I then went and did a lesson and thought no i can do this job just have a problem with role play!

I am very nervous, its the word test that does it. hate tests.

Still unsure of which pupil, as one would like to do it but not sure if she is available. Another one is to use one of my disabled and more challenging pupils, only problem with him is that he likes to say why he did something wrong then i have to go through it all.


Hi May

John Farlam has an ebook on his website www.smartdriving.co.uk called The Instructor Guide which might help.
It's not focused on CT but has some quick fixes.  I'd say to use it to develop as an instructor to better prepare yourself.


At University studying Humanities with Literature and Music.

http://www.myspace.com/scottmacalister/

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#25 19-05-09 08:01:07

smithwold
Verified Member
From: Berkshire
Registered: 18-08-07
Posts: 716
Website

Re: 1st Test Check looming!!!!!

I am very nervous, its the word test that does it. hate tests.

Don't think of it as a test, it's not. It is an assessment and the feedback given after will help you to improve.

It sounds like you were struggling to keep up, put a pull up in! Don't rush!

Use the time to summarise and explain things, set new targets with your "pupil" for the next 10mins....

Biggest mistake I ever made on Pt3 was not pulling up enough.  It also gives you a mini timeout to regain your thoughts and control.

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