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#51 02-05-09 09:08:04

angleson
Verified Member
Registered: 26-04-09
Posts: 55

Re: ADI Gradings

Like everything in life some things are down to luck. I really don't think it's that difficult to get that 6 after all I have it big_smile and I don't know ANYTHING. tongue
What can be easier then an exam where you choose your subject and your victim..err sorry pupil.
It's those choices that we had made gave us the grade, and that luck on the day.

I definitely won't sit on my behind and wallow in the grade I've got because there's always something new to learn and achieve. I have "ants in my pants" when I don't. 

I went out to a pub with a group of instructors last week...must be something wrong with me 'cause I won't be going again...why? I rather have a glass of wine and read a good book then listen to arguments that we have done on this forum 3 years ago, concluding that everyone has their own choice in how they do things in their business but it's up to the DSA to verify and tell us what they think about us as professionals.
I'm sure that if the Grading were to be publicly known more instructors would try to achieve the higher grade.

If you show, that you trying to do different things, you open yourself up to the scrutiny of masses, who rather then improve their standing will only laugh and criticize the achievements of others. So if you stand out from the crowd all fingers will be pointing at you.

Playground tactics and pack mentality comes to mind.

Thanks, la.monikita. Seems to be quite a balanced view on things!

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02-05-09 09:08:04

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Re: ADI Gradings




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#52 02-05-09 09:14:47

angleson
Verified Member
Registered: 26-04-09
Posts: 55

Re: ADI Gradings

YES They are better at all the instructional techniques, and for that are better ADI's. Simple.

Forgive my ignorance, but I thought the instructional techniques didn't form part of your grade?

I was under the impression that it is your lowest grade in the core competencies that dictates your grade and nothing else? ie your ability to identify analyse and remedy faults.

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#53 02-05-09 10:02:56

samds
Verified Member
Registered: 21-01-08
Posts: 526
Website

Re: ADI Gradings

big_smile



At University studying Humanities with Literature and Music.

http://www.myspace.com/scottmacalister/

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#54 02-05-09 10:43:05

jonnmedds
Verified Member
From: Staffordshire
Registered: 25-02-04
Posts: 154

Re: ADI Gradings

Am I as a grade 6 better than Joe Bloggs who's a grade 4, I don't honestly know.

What I do know is that when I took my 1st c/t 3 years after part 3 and got a grade 5 I was a better ADI than when I qualified. At my last c/t, last year I got a 6, I know that i'm a better ADI than when I was given the 5.

As my skills as an ADI have improved so has my grade, was I lucky at my last c/t, was I Bo****ks. I've worked hard and studied hard to improve myself in this job and for me my grade reflects my skill.

Did I deserve my 6, damn right I did.

Am I better than those on this forum who have a 4, I dunno.

Will I stop improving, NO. The moment I stop thinking I need to improve my skills, it'll be time to quit.

Jon

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#55 02-05-09 11:25:30

hector
Verified Member
From: Manchester
Registered: 04-04-06
Posts: 2,097
Website

Re: ADI Gradings

was I lucky at my last c/t, was I Bo****ks.

Well said. Lucky grade 6 my ****


EXCELSIOR TRAINING 
James Dawson Grade 6 ADI (Ordit Registered) Ba (Hons) Driver Education
ADI qualification/Check test training/Excelsior DSA Ordit/fleet courses
Johnny boy United 20 its coming son

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#56 02-05-09 11:34:48

johnnyfr
Verified Member
Registered: 06-01-07
Posts: 228
Website

Re: ADI Gradings

Angleson et al, if you don't care about your c/t grades - that's your decision and fine by me.

I happen to care about mine and worked hard for it.
However, it's not the be all and end all - I also work hard on my presentation skills, my Q&A, my pass rate, my instructional and coaching techniques etc, etc, etc. The c/t is the only one they'll give me a score for.

If the system is out of date, please update it and I'll still strive for a high score.

As for your grade not meaning anything to anyone but the DSA, I refer you back to the fact they are encouraging pupils to ask.


DSA ADI (car) -- DSA Fleet Driver Trainer [URL=http://www.prontopass.co.uk/grade6adi.php]Grade 6[/URL] -- ORDIT Registered Trainer
Level 4 PTLLS, Rospa Gold, NVQ Level 3 Driving Instruction, A1 Assessors Award, [URL=http://www.brake.org.uk]Brake[/URL] Road Safety Ambassador, DIA Taxi Trainer.
Visit us for [URL=http://www.prontopass.co.uk]Driving Lessons[/URL] or [URL=http://www.accufleet.co.uk]Fleet Driver Training[/URL]

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#57 02-05-09 13:35:27

angleson
Verified Member
Registered: 26-04-09
Posts: 55

Re: ADI Gradings

I care for my ability as a competent ADI and constantly strive to improve my game. I have a waiting list so I must be doing something right. As someone has already mentioned, most of us have improved since passing P3.

I'm not sure if moving up to Grade 6 will make me a better instructor. If I was convinced that it would then of course I'd be daft not to take further training specifically to get a better grade. Having been part of the system as a qualified ADI for 7 years, I'm not convinced that I would be any better. That's not to say that I'm right but the facts as they appear to me don't convince me. You can argue that the DSA regulate the whole process and therefore are the experts, but are they though? To me, it's like saying "You're a top notch instructor at grade six. You should be amongst the best instructors in the land" but that isn't evaluated in any way.

I reluctantly took over a learner who had received about 30 lessons from a grade 6. She told me she was so nervous the day before each lesson with him that she was taking medication the night before so that she could sleep. She would constantly think of excuses so as to cancel her lessons with him. The stress was too much. Now I do know that he is a grade 6 and he advertises as such. He can perform to perfection on the check-test because he can choose his own pupil and even practice the lesson in advance. He never presents the type of pupil referred to above for the check-test because the first 15 minutes (or more) would be taken up just calming her down. Is there a box on the form for that?

It took me a while to get her to relax behind the steering wheel before any real learning took place. That involved getting into her world and trying to work out what was the root of her problem.

If the examiners presented that type of pupil for us at check-test, I think the grades awarded might be different.

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#58 02-05-09 16:18:09

Aspyre
Member
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: ADI Gradings

YES They are better at all the instructional techniques, and for that are better ADI's. Simple.

So sayeth Hector.

only problem is the stats... actual measured data.... dont say that at all.

The fact of the matter is there are some pdis who are better than some grade 6s.. so ratteling on about grade 6 being better is pointless and rubbing peoples noses in it is not going to endear anybody to the majority.

the point i always find funny is you can have a poxey grade 4 one day who efectively wins the lottery and gets a grade 6 on CT the next day and beore you know it he or she will be on a soap box telling every one how only grade 6s matter.. are they better than they were the day before?? no they arent... andf theyre still capable of posting massive bloopers on here when they start trying to push there opinions as facts.

there will always be grade 4s 5s and 6s.. so having smart alicks keep boasting and rubbing other peoples noses in it contrary to facts gets tiresome after a while.

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#59 02-05-09 16:25:18

jonnmedds
Verified Member
From: Staffordshire
Registered: 25-02-04
Posts: 154

Re: ADI Gradings

Well off to cook some meat on the BBQ, something us 6's are much better at than 4's. :evil:

I know i am because my wife say's so.

Jon

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#60 02-05-09 16:27:40

Aspyre
Member
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: ADI Gradings

all bbq cooks like to boast.... you know that  8-)

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#61 02-05-09 16:54:07

angleson
Verified Member
Registered: 26-04-09
Posts: 55

Re: ADI Gradings

Well off to cook some meat on the BBQ, something us 6's are much better at than 4's. :evil:

I know i am because my wife say's so.

Jon

I think you may have a point there......... tongue

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#62 02-05-09 18:12:01

evanadi
Guest

Re: ADI Gradings

All chefs know that the greatest accolade you can get is from those you cook for.

Stop worrying about other people's grade's they have no relevance to you at all, just do your best by your pupils, with experience and constant re-invention, lesson evaluation and perhaps training, you will get the grade you want, then you will need something else to strive for, keeping your teaching at that standard.

Complacency, and being self-assured is the downfall of many a person.

In the words of Bob Marley ''The greatest man I ever met was once just a baby''. We live, we learn, we die, simple as that.
Ev wink

#63 02-05-09 19:36:22

hector
Verified Member
From: Manchester
Registered: 04-04-06
Posts: 2,097
Website

Re: ADI Gradings

Aspyre i dont know who you are because you choose to hide your identity, who are you? If I said black was black you would disagree very very childish.
Pity youve nothing better to do I have..


EXCELSIOR TRAINING 
James Dawson Grade 6 ADI (Ordit Registered) Ba (Hons) Driver Education
ADI qualification/Check test training/Excelsior DSA Ordit/fleet courses
Johnny boy United 20 its coming son

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#64 02-05-09 20:05:12

angleson
Verified Member
Registered: 26-04-09
Posts: 55

Re: ADI Gradings

I don't know about that, Hector. Can anyone disagree with you? neutral

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#65 02-05-09 20:33:29

hector
Verified Member
From: Manchester
Registered: 04-04-06
Posts: 2,097
Website

Re: ADI Gradings

Cause they can


EXCELSIOR TRAINING 
James Dawson Grade 6 ADI (Ordit Registered) Ba (Hons) Driver Education
ADI qualification/Check test training/Excelsior DSA Ordit/fleet courses
Johnny boy United 20 its coming son

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#66 02-05-09 20:47:36

Aspyre
Member
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: ADI Gradings

but they get lambasted when they do wink

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#67 02-05-09 21:05:48

The Saint
Verified Member
From: Languedoc
Registered: 09-07-07
Posts: 370

Re: ADI Gradings

Ladies and Gents.

Please find it in yourself to respect other points of view. It's not reasonable to expect us all to agree on everything but please do not be rude.

Thanks


Did you think you didn't have to choose it?
That I alone could win or lose it?
In all the places we were hiding love
What was it we were thinking of?

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#68 02-05-09 21:07:32

VandADI
Administrator
From: Coulsdon, Surrey
Registered: 29-02-04
Posts: 7,592

Re: ADI Gradings

The Saint, what do you expect? boys and their toys -throwing them out of pram, as usual   roll
Common courtesy would not go amiss, so please, lets all play nice  and stop this one-upmanship.  In my opinion, Evanadi has summed it up quite nicely

Stop worrying about other people's grade's they have no relevance to you at all, just do your best by your pupils, with experience and constant re-invention, lesson evaluation and perhaps training, you will get the grade you want, then you will need something else to strive for, keeping your teaching at that standard.

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#69 02-05-09 22:49:56

empyell
Verified Member
Registered: 30-12-06
Posts: 232

Re: ADI Gradings

A long time ago, on another forum, it was pointed out to me that you can tell the quality of the person by the length of their footer.

Never truer than on here, sadly.

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#70 02-05-09 23:52:46

evanadi
Guest

Re: ADI Gradings

''quality of the person by the length of their footer.''

I am afraid only the females can answer that one....................  :evil: big_smile yikes  roll 





:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
:cry: :cry: :cry: lucky ######  :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:


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#71 03-05-09 08:46:02

DampDog
Verified Member
From: Staffordshire.
Registered: 04-02-06
Posts: 1,538

Re: ADI Gradings

It's shocking to see that the highest percentage of ADI's are grade 4, the last report I saw a few years ago said that most ADI's were grade 5. Either standards are slipping or the ct is getting harder.

[quote author=Aspyre]
yes and of those its worrying to see how many are proud or releived to be a 4.

[quote author=Aspyre]to be fair a 4 is a 4 and nothing to be ashamed of as such.. but i agree about those who say they "got away with" a 4.. They shoulf d certainly aim higher.

Aspyre wrote:

I'm not sure.. Saying bernie is a grade 6 so is better than fred who is only a 4 is definitely wrong.. Fred *could* easily be a better adi than bernie.. SO I agree in that sense.

But when people are relieved to scrape a 4 time after time (or even first time) then i think the grades mean something.

So overall a grade 6 *is* better than a 4 when you look at the big picture esp if some one gets it and keeps it.. Likewise some one who gets a 4 and keeps getting it.

Aspyre wrote:

the point i always find funny is you can have a poxey grade 4 one day who efectively wins the lottery and gets a grade 6 on CT the next day and beore you know it he or she will be on a soap box telling every one how only grade 6s matter.. are they better than they were the day before?? no they arent... andf theyre still capable of posting massive bloopers on here when they start trying to push there opinions as facts.

there will always be grade 4s 5s and 6s.. so having smart alicks keep boasting and rubbing other peoples noses in it contrary to facts gets tiresome after a while.

Incredible post, have you actually made your mind up what your opinion is? It seems to be changing post on post. You start of saying how shocked you are at the number of grade 4's then go to berate those who have worked hard to get a 6, smacks of jelousy to me.

I've just had my first CT at pretty much bang on 12 months, and came away with a to quote the examiner "A good solid 5" and it wasn't a fluke i worked hard for it. And to get a 6 I *will* have to be better than I am now, so the system works as it's the same measure for all of us. Pass rate aren't, that depends on too many variables on the day.. You telling me instructors don't pick and choose test centres to give their pupil the best chance of passing? Or run their pupils in circles round and round the test routes?

Would I be happy with anything less than a 5 next time? I think not, I'd like to think there's a 6 in me, if I dropped to a 4 I'd be gutted.


ADI (car)
1st CT (5)

I used to be a compleat idiot, until some bits fell off...

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#72 03-05-09 08:58:16

Aspyre
Member
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: ADI Gradings

yes those proud of a 4 are not the same as those who are a 4.. getting a 4 for legit reasons is nothing to be ashamed of especialy as there is a degree of luck involved in many CTs.

i am berating no one about working to be a 6.. i am berating any one who sets out to put them selves above any one else.. the words i used in those above posts actually say that if you read AND understand them

grade 4 5 or 6 is acceptable for being an adi.. until grade 4 is no longer acceptable then it should not be put down by people.

any one looking down on some one else because of any test or exam pass is unacceptable but at least if they do it prvately it is a character fault they can mask.. shouting it out loud all the time and rubbing peoples noses in it .... whether deliberately or not.... is rude and insensitive.

the problem we have is grades 5s and 6s hinting at least that grade 4 is not good.. may be not deliberate but doing it none the less.. this thread was resurected for some starnge reason and it imediately got peoples backs up.. i just happen to sympathise with them.

You dont know what grade i am but your obvious desire to make it personal.... just like the thing i'm getting at... ilustartes my point about the atitudes i am making.

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#73 03-05-09 09:21:29

DampDog
Verified Member
From: Staffordshire.
Registered: 04-02-06
Posts: 1,538

Re: ADI Gradings

''quality of the person by the length of their footer.''

Wise words indeed, I neither know your grade or your online status as you choose not to show either. The only person in the whole thread who's made any obvious personal comment is yourself, "so sayeth Hector" for one. So I think we're in the realms of "Teapot calling kettle blackarse" there. I wouldn't judge anyone by there grade, unless that grade had been the same for ever and a day.

Are grades 4,5,6 acceptable, the very fact that there are  3 acceptable grades not a single grade for a pass, would perhaps make you think the DSA are looking for an improvement over time?


ADI (car)
1st CT (5)

I used to be a compleat idiot, until some bits fell off...

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#74 03-05-09 10:36:11

angleson
Verified Member
Registered: 26-04-09
Posts: 55

Re: ADI Gradings

Is it not possible to have a debate on this forum then?

It seems to me that everyone seems to dictate answers as opposed to entering into a civilised debate.

One member has said that we shouldn't be bothered by the grade of other ADIs and I think that is good advice.

My concern is about the whole DSA system and history that has brought it to the point in time where we see it today. Call it what you like - teaching, training, coaching etc. It's all about Education and Life long Learning but how come we are governed, regulated and tested by a quango of the DfT?

Do the people who decide our fate come from a background that knows anything about teaching, training or coaching?

I know I go on about it but John P Brown's book "Driving is more about psychology than systems" is an excellent read. In it he talks about the evolution of the DSA, and quite frankly, it's rather worrying. He talks about the development of the testing system from 1935 and of how people from driving backgrounds have come to regulate the process and how it forms the foundation of what we have today.

In a nutshell, what I have been going on about is whether the DSA are qualified to conduct the check-tests?

My suggestion is that they're not as they're not equipped to distinguish between good teachers and those who can follow a strict regime as dictated by THEM!

This is not aimed at having a go at those of you on grade 5 and 6. You have proved that you can both teach and adhere to the DSA's regime. You're still in business as well at this difficult time, so you're made! I'm just concerned that it may be missing excellent teachers who can't follow such regimes but still are as effective.

Remember that teacher in school who didn't hold a degree but got you through your O'levels? The one who did hold a 1st class honours - he could only teach the cream of the crop!

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#75 03-05-09 11:39:19

Aspyre
Member
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: ADI Gradings

A very good post angleson.. i think a lot of the problem is when  people can only see one side of the black tea pot and kettle and forget it has many sides.

people may inadvertently talk them selves up without realsing there putting others down.. others know full well they are doing it and are even proud of it (you can see it when they never talk *to* any one just *at* them).. such is the broadness of our proffession.


what i find especialy a shame is when a disagreement spills into other topics so once some one gets a bee in there bonnett about another poster they carry it into other threads and theres no need for that.

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