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#26 10-03-09 17:38:55

Luchell
Verified Member
From: Salisbury
Registered: 12-06-07
Posts: 1,661

Re: ADI Gradings

I had my first after 3 months  lol

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10-03-09 17:38:55

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Re: ADI Gradings



#27 10-03-09 20:11:21

Aspyre
Member
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: ADI Gradings

I'm not sure.. Saying bernie is a grade 6 so is better than fred who is only a 4 is definitely wrong.. Fred *could* easily be a better adi than bernie.. SO I agree in that sense.

But when people are relieved to scrape a 4 time after time (or even first time) then i think the grades mean something.

when you look at the kind of people being atracted to this job you know theyre not all top notch adi material.. Even if they have ability the atitude is wrong.. the 30k adverts got them not the desire to be adis.. The same applies to people who go to pieces on tests.. You have to do them so live with it though many would like to see dumbing down and tests removed so they dont upset people.

So overall a grade 6 *is* better than a 4 when you look at the big picture esp if some one gets it and keeps it.. Likewise some one who gets a 4 and keeps getting it.

I notice that big agreement has come from one grade 6 over another recent grade 6s  comments re grade 6 being best ect......... need to be careful not to look down on others too far though.. Not all grade 4s are bad.. And getting a grade 6 on CT is similar to getting a clean sheet with a pupil in some respects.. A little luck involved.

I guess We'e talkign about those who are only interested in keeping the badge at any cost to earn money.

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#28 10-03-09 21:33:41

samds
Verified Member
Registered: 21-01-08
Posts: 526
Website

Re: ADI Gradings

Can I ask a question?

If an ADI is graded 6 and is in the elite.  Why would their charge out rate be low?


At University studying Humanities with Literature and Music.

http://www.myspace.com/scottmacalister/

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#29 10-03-09 21:37:24

empyell
Verified Member
Registered: 30-12-06
Posts: 232

Re: ADI Gradings

need to be careful not to look down on others too far though

Indeed. I'd like to think that when the day comes that I get a 6 in a check test, I'll carry it with a little more dignity than some people on here are doing.

Then again, if that's what getting a 6 turns you into, I think I can live without it.

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#30 10-03-09 22:32:32

johnnyfr
Verified Member
Registered: 06-01-07
Posts: 228
Website

Re: ADI Gradings

Can I ask a question?

If an ADI is graded 6 and is in the elite.  Why would their charge out rate be low?




Some people have nothing better to do with their time, it seems, than to make themselves look silly.
If you have something to say, say it.



There's no direct correlation between grade and price, is there?
Do BSM charge out their ADIs at different rates according to their grade or qualifications?
Or the AA, Bill Plant, LDC etc ?



DSA ADI (car) -- DSA Fleet Driver Trainer [URL=http://www.prontopass.co.uk/grade6adi.php]Grade 6[/URL] -- ORDIT Registered Trainer
Level 4 PTLLS, Rospa Gold, NVQ Level 3 Driving Instruction, A1 Assessors Award, [URL=http://www.brake.org.uk]Brake[/URL] Road Safety Ambassador, DIA Taxi Trainer.
Visit us for [URL=http://www.prontopass.co.uk]Driving Lessons[/URL] or [URL=http://www.accufleet.co.uk]Fleet Driver Training[/URL]

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#31 10-03-09 22:33:04

binty1968
Verified Member
From: Hants/Surrey border
Registered: 22-02-06
Posts: 1,691
Website

Re: ADI Gradings

need to be careful not to look down on others too far though

Indeed. I'd like to think that when the day comes that I get a 6 in a check test, I'll carry it with a little more dignity than some people on here are doing.

Then again, if that's what getting a 6 turns you into, I think I can live without it.

Agree 110% with that!!!

Aslong as im doing my job to my best ability and i enjoy it thats more than enough for me...Im afraid i have not time for anyone in any walk of life who shouts about whats in their bank, what A levels they got or how many badges when they were in the girl guides!

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#32 10-03-09 22:44:12

samds
Verified Member
Registered: 21-01-08
Posts: 526
Website

Re: ADI Gradings

smdtr wrote:

Can I ask a question?

If an ADI is graded 6 and is in the elite.  Why would their charge out rate be low?

Some people have nothing better to do with their time, it seems, than to make themselves look silly.
If you have something to say, say it.

There's no direct correlation between grade and price, is there?
Do BSM charge out their ADIs at different rates according to their grade or qualifications?
Or the AA, Bill Plant, LDC etc ?


I thought that was a very good question? Didn't mean to upset you in anyway.


At University studying Humanities with Literature and Music.

http://www.myspace.com/scottmacalister/

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#33 10-03-09 22:52:30

johnnyfr
Verified Member
Registered: 06-01-07
Posts: 228
Website

Re: ADI Gradings

Upset? I honestly couldn't be happier after this evening.



Still don't see the connection though.
Perhaps you'd like to expand......?


DSA ADI (car) -- DSA Fleet Driver Trainer [URL=http://www.prontopass.co.uk/grade6adi.php]Grade 6[/URL] -- ORDIT Registered Trainer
Level 4 PTLLS, Rospa Gold, NVQ Level 3 Driving Instruction, A1 Assessors Award, [URL=http://www.brake.org.uk]Brake[/URL] Road Safety Ambassador, DIA Taxi Trainer.
Visit us for [URL=http://www.prontopass.co.uk]Driving Lessons[/URL] or [URL=http://www.accufleet.co.uk]Fleet Driver Training[/URL]

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#34 10-03-09 22:53:18

KevB
Verified Member
From: Amesbury
Registered: 06-06-08
Posts: 1,725
Website

Re: ADI Gradings

Does anyone know anyone that got a 4 on a Fleet Check Test ?

(Genuinely interested, no inferences intended).

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#35 10-03-09 23:17:44

timmanwaringadi
Verified Member
From: Devon
Registered: 29-08-06
Posts: 2,406
Website

Re: ADI Gradings

The highest proportion of ADIs have fallen into the grade 4 section for over a decade.

It is possible to give yourself a very very good chance at a grade 6 to the extent that it would actually take bad luck to get less.

Personally I take very little notice though - the DSA grading is so strict that very few of my customers would benefit from me working in a way in which I would gain a grade 6. Many of them would actually find it detrimental.

Of the 4 ADIs who I know personally who have given up over the last year, 2 were grade 6.

What brings money in is your business ability, of which customer service is a big part, but excellent customer service may not get you a grade 6, as some phenomenal ADIs have found. Much more likely to pay the bills is good marketting and conversion.

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#36 11-03-09 10:17:49

whodareswins
Verified Member
From: S.E.England
Registered: 12-04-06
Posts: 550

Re: ADI Gradings

Does anyone know anyone that got a 4 on a Fleet Check Test ?

(Genuinely interested, no inferences intended).

Yep,

One of my fleet colleagues got a 4 in November.

The reason that Fleet Trainers are motivated to attain a high grade is that (unlike regular ADIs) their grading has a direct impact upon whether (or not) they get any offers of work from the larger fleet training companies. None of these companies are likely to offer fleet work unless they are Grade 5 or above.

percy


Grade 6 ADI/Fleet Trainer, SAFED Registered Trainer, Qualified BTEC Assessor

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#37 11-03-09 10:37:37

KevB
Verified Member
From: Amesbury
Registered: 06-06-08
Posts: 1,725
Website

Re: ADI Gradings

Thanks Percy smile

Offline

#38 01-05-09 20:35:03

johnnyfr
Verified Member
Registered: 06-01-07
Posts: 228
Website

Re: ADI Gradings

I finally got asked what my grade was this week.

Doing a road safety workshop in a school, one of the pupils asked me afterwards.
I was obviously delighted to tell them I got a 6 but asked them how they knew to ask.
Their reply?
The DSA were here a few months ago and they told us to ask our ADIs for our grades.

Add that little snippet to the proposed star rating system and what do you get, I wonder.......?

I'm still proud of my grade 6 - in fact, I'm more proud this week now I've been asked.


DSA ADI (car) -- DSA Fleet Driver Trainer [URL=http://www.prontopass.co.uk/grade6adi.php]Grade 6[/URL] -- ORDIT Registered Trainer
Level 4 PTLLS, Rospa Gold, NVQ Level 3 Driving Instruction, A1 Assessors Award, [URL=http://www.brake.org.uk]Brake[/URL] Road Safety Ambassador, DIA Taxi Trainer.
Visit us for [URL=http://www.prontopass.co.uk]Driving Lessons[/URL] or [URL=http://www.accufleet.co.uk]Fleet Driver Training[/URL]

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#39 01-05-09 20:59:10

Laura Harris
Guest

Re: ADI Gradings

I finally got asked what my grade was this week.

Doing a road safety workshop in a school, one of the pupils asked me afterwards.
I was obviously delighted to tell them I got a 6 but asked them how they knew to ask.
Their reply?
The DSA were here a few months ago and they told us to ask our ADIs for our grades.

Add that little snippet to the proposed star rating system and what do you get, I wonder.......?

I'm still proud of my grade 6 - in fact, I'm more proud this week now I've been asked.

Hi, any chance of telling us what grade you are?  It's just that it's difficult to grasp it from your posts.  You seem to be beating round the bush with it a bit.

Jeez!

#40 01-05-09 21:00:53

johnnyfr
Verified Member
Registered: 06-01-07
Posts: 228
Website

Re: ADI Gradings

Sorry big_smile


DSA ADI (car) -- DSA Fleet Driver Trainer [URL=http://www.prontopass.co.uk/grade6adi.php]Grade 6[/URL] -- ORDIT Registered Trainer
Level 4 PTLLS, Rospa Gold, NVQ Level 3 Driving Instruction, A1 Assessors Award, [URL=http://www.brake.org.uk]Brake[/URL] Road Safety Ambassador, DIA Taxi Trainer.
Visit us for [URL=http://www.prontopass.co.uk]Driving Lessons[/URL] or [URL=http://www.accufleet.co.uk]Fleet Driver Training[/URL]

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#41 01-05-09 21:03:44

Aspyre
Member
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: ADI Gradings

not bad when you can get up the noses of 94% of the adi population with out trying wink

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#42 01-05-09 22:24:30

samds
Verified Member
Registered: 21-01-08
Posts: 526
Website

Re: ADI Gradings

not bad when you can get up the noses of 94% of the adi population with out trying wink

LOL


At University studying Humanities with Literature and Music.

http://www.myspace.com/scottmacalister/

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#43 02-05-09 00:25:19

angleson
Verified Member
Registered: 26-04-09
Posts: 55

Re: ADI Gradings

Until I joined this forum I wasn't aware of just how sensitive the whole ADI grading appears to be!

Those on grade 6 seem to be shouting about it from the rooftops and those who aren't, myself included on 4, are hell bent on fighting their corner in arguing that it is only part of the bigger picture. That of course is human nature. Those who believe in the grading system and have spent a lot of time and money gaining that higher grade will defend the system whilst the likes of me believe that my reputation speaks for itself. I am able to say that most of the learners I have taught have passed first time after an average of 25 hours coaching by me. On the PR side of the job I can honestly say that I never use the piggy-backing system, I never have the mobile phone switched on or wear a silly earpiece whilst coaching, I am always on time and never give less time than what's been paid for.

When I see the stats on one of the earlier posts on this thread I find that only 6% of all ADIs are grade 6 so that's about 2600 for the whole of the UK. One thing's certain, more than 6% of the ADIs I know profess to being grade 6 - more like 25% - so I know now that either there are a few liars in this area or I live in an area where there is a disproportionately high number of grade 6's! The latter is unlikely, I fear, as we would only have about 10 grade 6's if the total number of driving instructors was around 166 for the area! I only know about 15-20 of them well enough to discuss their grade and about 5 of them tell me they are grade 6!!

I've raised this point on another thread - does a grade 6 mean that you are a better instructor or does it mean that you are better trained at getting a grade 6 and that it bears little or no relevance to the success of your pupils? It only shows how good the SEADI thinks you have dealt with the Identifying, Analysing and Remedying of faults or am I mistaken? I've been quoted some stats there as well and a survey conducted by the DSA seems to show that grade 5 & 6 have a mean pass rate of about 50% and grade 4s have 46%. If mine is 51%, then what grade should I be or does the fact that I am a grade 4 mean that I cannot get a mean pass rate of more than 50%?

The link for the report is:
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/re … 751?page=9


So can we deduce from the report that there's not much difference between grades 5 & 6 and that they are 4% better than grade 4s? I personally believe that statistically the results may be inconclusive because of the small sample. However one member comments that it does prove there is correlation between grade and success and maybe he has a point, but is it significant with it only being 4%?

An interesting read is John P Brown's book called "Driving is more about psychology than systems" (ISBN 978-0-9558282-0-1). He asks if the whole system itself is the reason why we as an industry are not achieving the overall improved results by higher pass rates and lower accident rates. He goes on to explain how the "system" has evolved since 1935 resulting in it being possible for ADIs to be tested by those who hold no formal teaching qualification!

During my last check-test the SEADI told me at the end that I hadn't used the phrase MSPSL once during the hour.

I was in fact teaching him the way he learns because I've found that he can't learn the way the DSA wants me to teach! Maybe I should've used another pupil?



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#44 02-05-09 06:57:50

johnnyfr
Verified Member
Registered: 06-01-07
Posts: 228
Website

Re: ADI Gradings

Ok. I'll try to make my point again shall I?

The DSA are telling
YOUR FUTURE PUPILS
to ask what your CHECK TEST GRADE IS
before deciding who to go with.


Forget about me. How do you feel about that?


DSA ADI (car) -- DSA Fleet Driver Trainer [URL=http://www.prontopass.co.uk/grade6adi.php]Grade 6[/URL] -- ORDIT Registered Trainer
Level 4 PTLLS, Rospa Gold, NVQ Level 3 Driving Instruction, A1 Assessors Award, [URL=http://www.brake.org.uk]Brake[/URL] Road Safety Ambassador, DIA Taxi Trainer.
Visit us for [URL=http://www.prontopass.co.uk]Driving Lessons[/URL] or [URL=http://www.accufleet.co.uk]Fleet Driver Training[/URL]

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#45 02-05-09 07:16:24

daz6215
Verified Member
Registered: 07-06-08
Posts: 449

Re: ADI Gradings

Until I joined this forum I wasn't aware of just how sensitive the whole ADI grading appears to be!

Those on grade 6 seem to be shouting about it from the rooftops and those who aren't, myself included on 4, are hell bent on fighting their corner in arguing that it is only part of the bigger picture. That of course is human nature. Those who believe in the grading system and have spent a lot of time and money gaining that higher grade will defend the system whilst the likes of me believe that my reputation speaks for itself. I am able to say that most of the learners I have taught have passed first time after an average of 25 hours coaching by me. On the PR side of the job I can honestly say that I never use the piggy-backing system, I never have the mobile phone switched on or wear a silly earpiece whilst coaching, I am always on time and never give less time than what's been paid for.

When I see the stats on one of the earlier posts on this thread I find that only 6% of all ADIs are grade 6 so that's about 2600 for the whole of the UK. One thing's certain, more than 6% of the ADIs I know profess to being grade 6 - more like 25% - so I know now that either there are a few liars in this area or I live in an area where there is a disproportionately high number of grade 6's! The latter is unlikely, I fear, as we would only have about 10 grade 6's if the total number of driving instructors was around 166 for the area! I only know about 15-20 of them well enough to discuss their grade and about 5 of them tell me they are grade 6!!

I've raised this point on another thread - does a grade 6 mean that you are a better instructor or does it mean that you are better trained at getting a grade 6 and that it bears little or no relevance to the success of your pupils? It only shows how good the SEADI thinks you have dealt with the Identifying, Analysing and Remedying of faults or am I mistaken? I've been quoted some stats there as well and a survey conducted by the DSA seems to show that grade 5 & 6 have a mean pass rate of about 50% and grade 4s have 46%. If mine is 51%, then what grade should I be or does the fact that I am a grade 4 mean that I cannot get a mean pass rate of more than 50%?

The link for the report is:
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/re … 751?page=9


So can we deduce from the report that there's not much difference between grades 5 & 6 and that they are 4% better than grade 4s? I personally believe that statistically the results may be inconclusive because of the small sample. However one member comments that it does prove there is correlation between grade and success and maybe he has a point, but is it significant with it only being 4%?

An interesting read is John P Brown's book called "Driving is more about psychology than systems" (ISBN 978-0-9558282-0-1). He asks if the whole system itself is the reason why we as an industry are not achieving the overall improved results by higher pass rates and lower accident rates. He goes on to explain how the "system" has evolved since 1935 resulting in it being possible for ADIs to be tested by those who hold no formal teaching qualification!

During my last check-test the SEADI told me at the end that I hadn't used the phrase MSPSL once during the hour.

I was in fact teaching him the way he learns because I've found that he can't learn the way the DSA wants me to teach! Maybe I should've used another pupil?

Good post smile

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#46 02-05-09 07:41:48

Laura Harris
Guest

Re: ADI Gradings

angleson wrote:

Until I joined this forum I wasn't aware of just how sensitive the whole ADI grading appears to be!

Those on grade 6 seem to be shouting about it from the rooftops and those who aren't, myself included on 4, are hell bent on fighting their corner in arguing that it is only part of the bigger picture. That of course is human nature. Those who believe in the grading system and have spent a lot of time and money gaining that higher grade will defend the system whilst the likes of me believe that my reputation speaks for itself. I am able to say that most of the learners I have taught have passed first time after an average of 25 hours coaching by me. On the PR side of the job I can honestly say that I never use the piggy-backing system, I never have the mobile phone switched on or wear a silly earpiece whilst coaching, I am always on time and never give less time than what's been paid for.

When I see the stats on one of the earlier posts on this thread I find that only 6% of all ADIs are grade 6 so that's about 2600 for the whole of the UK. One thing's certain, more than 6% of the ADIs I know profess to being grade 6 - more like 25% - so I know now that either there are a few liars in this area or I live in an area where there is a disproportionately high number of grade 6's! The latter is unlikely, I fear, as we would only have about 10 grade 6's if the total number of driving instructors was around 166 for the area! I only know about 15-20 of them well enough to discuss their grade and about 5 of them tell me they are grade 6!!

I've raised this point on another thread - does a grade 6 mean that you are a better instructor or does it mean that you are better trained at getting a grade 6 and that it bears little or no relevance to the success of your pupils? It only shows how good the SEADI thinks you have dealt with the Identifying, Analysing and Remedying of faults or am I mistaken? I've been quoted some stats there as well and a survey conducted by the DSA seems to show that grade 5 & 6 have a mean pass rate of about 50% and grade 4s have 46%. If mine is 51%, then what grade should I be or does the fact that I am a grade 4 mean that I cannot get a mean pass rate of more than 50%?

The link for the report is:
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/re … 751?page=9


So can we deduce from the report that there's not much difference between grades 5 & 6 and that they are 4% better than grade 4s? I personally believe that statistically the results may be inconclusive because of the small sample. However one member comments that it does prove there is correlation between grade and success and maybe he has a point, but is it significant with it only being 4%?

An interesting read is John P Brown's book called "Driving is more about psychology than systems" (ISBN 978-0-9558282-0-1). He asks if the whole system itself is the reason why we as an industry are not achieving the overall improved results by higher pass rates and lower accident rates. He goes on to explain how the "system" has evolved since 1935 resulting in it being possible for ADIs to be tested by those who hold no formal teaching qualification!

During my last check-test the SEADI told me at the end that I hadn't used the phrase MSPSL once during the hour.

I was in fact teaching him the way he learns because I've found that he can't learn the way the DSA wants me to teach! Maybe I should've used another pupil?

Good post smile

Nice one!

#47 02-05-09 07:57:38

hector
Verified Member
From: Manchester
Registered: 04-04-06
Posts: 2,097
Website

Re: ADI Gradings

Four pages of the normal tosh on this forum, are grade 6's better than grade 4's?

YES They are better at all the instructional techniques, and for that are better ADI's. Simple.

They are better teachers and THEY HAVE PROVED IT! THIS WHOLE INDUSTRY IS FULL OF PEOPLE CLAIMING A COMPLETE LOAD OF RUBBISH ABOUT WHAT THEY HAVE DONE AND HOW GOOD THEY ARE, THE REAL ONES ARE ABLE TO PROVE IT AND IF THEY WANT TO SHOUT ABOUT IT, WHY SHOULDNT THEY

Ill put my tin helmet on for the flack, but its simply the truth. Having observed many the only bit of truth is 5 and 6 are very close.
Are grade 4's happy with that grade? NO and if they are, they shouldnt be ADI's.

Time and time again pass rates are mentioned, no correlation whatsoever, too many variables and nothing whatsoever to do with grades.


EXCELSIOR TRAINING 
James Dawson Grade 6 ADI (Ordit Registered) Ba (Hons) Driver Education
ADI qualification/Check test training/Excelsior DSA Ordit/fleet courses
Johnny boy United 20 its coming son

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#48 02-05-09 07:59:35

la.monikita
Verified Member
From: SE LONDON / KENT
Registered: 12-03-05
Posts: 3,064

Re: ADI Gradings

Like everything in life some things are down to luck. I really don't think it's that difficult to get that 6 after all I have it big_smile and I don't know ANYTHING. tongue
What can be easier then an exam where you choose your subject and your victim..err sorry pupil.
It's those choices that we had made gave us the grade, and that luck on the day.

I definitely won't sit on my behind and wallow in the grade I've got because there's always something new to learn and achieve. I have "ants in my pants" when I don't. 

I went out to a pub with a group of instructors last week...must be something wrong with me 'cause I won't be going again...why? I rather have a glass of wine and read a good book then listen to arguments that we have done on this forum 3 years ago, concluding that everyone has their own choice in how they do things in their business but it's up to the DSA to verify and tell us what they think about us as professionals.
I'm sure that if the Grading were to be publicly known more instructors would try to achieve the higher grade.

If you show, that you trying to do different things, you open yourself up to the scrutiny of masses, who rather then improve their standing will only laugh and criticize the achievements of others. So if you stand out from the crowd all fingers will be pointing at you.

Playground tactics and pack mentality comes to mind.


"What is necessary to change a person is to change his awareness of himself."
Abraham Maslow

21st Century Women http://www.loisontheloose.com/my-advent … /the-team/

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#49 02-05-09 08:47:04

angleson
Verified Member
Registered: 26-04-09
Posts: 55

Re: ADI Gradings

Ok. I'll try to make my point again shall I?

The DSA are telling
YOUR FUTURE PUPILS
to ask what your CHECK TEST GRADE IS
before deciding who to go with.


Forget about me. How do you feel about that?

Thanks, Johnnyfr.

Unfortunately, whether it's a strength or a weakness on my behalf, but if I don't believe that it'll make me a better instructor, then I'm not that bothered who knows my grade. To use your phrase, let me make my point again shall I - I'm not asking what the DSA and the general public feel about the grade, and I was trying to open up the DEBATE about the significance of the grading of ADIs. If you've read my post I was saying that my success rate is not reflected in my grade and let me ask you a question in return.

What if the DSA's grading system is out-of-date and that it means nothing to anyone except the DSA, how do you feel about that?

The star rating system was slated on the learning to drive forum. At least that might have given us a chance to sell ourselves with something more than a number given by a regulatory body which knows very little about teaching.

I would like to see the whole grading system analysed by a body that understands teaching methods. The check-test and P3 are so rigidly prescribed that it suffocates a coach that shows a bit of flair. It's the output that counts, not the method.

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#50 02-05-09 08:49:42

angleson
Verified Member
Registered: 26-04-09
Posts: 55

Re: ADI Gradings

Four pages of the normal tosh on this forum, are grade 6's better than grade 4's?

YES They are better at all the instructional techniques, and for that are better ADI's. Simple.

They are better teachers and THEY HAVE PROVED IT! THIS WHOLE INDUSTRY IS FULL OF PEOPLE CLAIMING A COMPLETE LOAD OF RUBBISH ABOUT WHAT THEY HAVE DONE AND HOW GOOD THEY ARE, THE REAL ONES ARE ABLE TO PROVE IT AND IF THEY WANT TO SHOUT ABOUT IT, WHY SHOULDNT THEY

Ill put my tin helmet on for the flack, but its simply the truth. Having observed many the only bit of truth is 5 and 6 are very close.
Are grade 4's happy with that grade? NO and if they are, they shouldnt be ADI's.

Time and time again pass rates are mentioned, no correlation whatsoever, too many variables and nothing whatsoever to do with grades.

So does that make the grading system fair then, Hector?

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