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#26 08-02-09 22:26:21

Luchell
Verified Member
From: Salisbury
Registered: 12-06-07
Posts: 1,661

Re: Solid White Lines

Ha, Asprye. I blame dancing on ice, I was distracted whilst posting  lol lol wink

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08-02-09 22:26:21

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Re: Solid White Lines




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#27 08-02-09 22:55:23

KevB
Verified Member
From: Amesbury
Registered: 06-06-08
Posts: 1,725
Website

Re: Solid White Lines

Hi Tony,

On the M60 at certain junctions all 3 running lanes have solid white line lane dividers extending from, before the onslip or dedicated slip to LH lane starts, to about 400/600 yds past the entry slip etc.

Seperate carriageways?

I can name a dozen or so locations where solid white line lane dividers are used but where the seperation of carriageways as denoted in regulations occur at marker posts anything upto 3 km's away from the location of the beginning of the solid white line laner dividers.

There are also many examples where solid white line lane dividers are used on the normal carriageway as in the example given by Pegasus.

smile

I can't be arsed to argue regarding this issue, there seems to be a lot of heated discussion surrounding what regulations apply to what.
It seems each has their own interpretation as to what such markings constitute, and what regualtion(s) do or should apply.

Irrespective of which regualtion is used, the main thrust of such a marking is normally that a driver should not permit his vehicle to cross the white line, except in certain circumstances.

Sadly, the OP is likely to feel even more frustrated, seeing as he already applied that meaning, but was looking for the regulation(s) that expressed it.

I maintain that there is no single answer, as many such uses are prescribed in a Local Road Law.
Others may quote MT(!!)R or TSRGD regulations.
Whichever regulation we believe applies, the common meaning is usually the prohibition of crossing or straddling, except in certain circumstances.

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#28 08-02-09 23:01:56

Aspyre
Member
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: Solid White Lines

IAM also suggests that the more paint on it the more you shouldn't cross it suggesting specific rules are not always availble !! Thats why I like that one on the map that's about as wide as a car.. youd get snow blindness driving on that smile

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#29 08-02-09 23:25:04

Luchell
Verified Member
From: Salisbury
Registered: 12-06-07
Posts: 1,661

Re: Solid White Lines

I always loved P.j's saying of 'The more white, the more *****'    ( s h i t e for the benefit of the swear word sensor jobby)  regarding paint on the road  lol Strangely pupils find that one easy to remember  lol

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#30 08-02-09 23:40:07

Aspyre
Member
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: Solid White Lines

it is funny though isnt it ?? There you have a solid white line 10 times wider than usual and usally about an inch thick and you have this mentalimage of a local commitee poring over mountains of regulations arguing over whether legally ok to cross it or not or wether it is 20cm longer than it shold be !!  big_smile

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#31 09-02-09 00:14:01

Makem Drive
Verified Member
Registered: 27-06-08
Posts: 197

Re: Solid White Lines

Tony ADI

Gordon bennett!!!!!

They are not lane dividers they are carriageway dividers. If the white line is on your right it is also on the left of the traffic in the other carriageway. It denotes the edge of that carriageway

If you are driving along in lane 1 of a 2 lane onslip and the broken white line (between lanes 1 & 2 of the slip) changes to a single solid white line before you get to the merge section & continues like this for some distance before reverting back to broken at the point you should join the main carridgeway (lane 2 has ended) then it IS a lane divider. If you follow the link provided by Luchell you will see that on the RBT the line is a double enclosing. The situation I was referring to is laid out just like that except the line is a SINGLE solid one.


My thanks to Kevin Beecham ADI.

Both of your posts have hit the nail on the head. You have (for me anyway) settled the matter. I have been treating them correctly for years before my ADI training but was never sure on the legality issue. Now I am teaching pupils to drive I can now explain what could be the consequences of crossing the line could be (apart from the safety aspect) as well as teaching my pupils the correct way to deal with them.

We teach pupils not to cross double solid lines, speed etc., explain how it's unsafe to do so. We tell them the risks to their pocket & licence, we also need to do so for this and many other situations.

I have seen these line on the road for many years now because I use effective all round observations when driving (and have for 40+years, not just since training for the ADI badge). I am please that many other have seen them as well proving I'm not just seeing things.


I thank (almost) all for their contribution with special thanks to both Kevin Beecham & Luchell for their extra effort & support (you know what I mean Luchell).

The normal width line is 100mm the double width one is therefore 200mm height appears to be the same. It's not the short section of very wide 500mm os so refered to by Aspye. That often starts or ends the double line enclosing chevrons and often tapered.

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#32 09-02-09 00:55:03

tony adi
Verified Member
From: Selby
Registered: 12-05-08
Posts: 1,233
Website

Re: Solid White Lines

If you are driving along in lane 1 of a 2 lane onslip and the broken white line (between lanes 1 & 2 of the slip) changes to a single solid white line before you get to the merge section & continues like this for some distance before reverting back to broken at the point you should join the main carridgeway (lane 2 has ended) then it IS a lane divider.

If you are driving up a slip road, in lane 2, where the centre line between the two lanes is broken, and then becomes a solid white line, this means that lane 2 has ended AT THIS POINT, you should not then cross back into the lane on your left. If you are still in lane 1 at this point then you have a solid line on your right and your left. This means you are on a seperate carriageway, you should then stay on this carriageway until the line on your right becomes broken again.

If you look at the r/b link at the 3 o'clock entrance where there is a solid white line as you approach this seperates traffic turning left from traffic turning right. As traffic moves onto the roundabout in the right hand lane, anybody who has got into the wrong lane on approach is still given an opportunity to go left, on a seperate section of carriageway, and then merge back in further down when the line becomes broken. This system is used to prevent traffic (wanting to go left but approaching in the wrong lane) from cutting back in on the roundabout. It allows seperation of the traffic by using an edge of carriageway marking. This is a safer alternative than using a broken line system.

Your original post made no mention of the chevrons and white lines shown on the other section of the roundabout, it simply said single solid white line. The rules on chevrons bordered by solid white lines have already been given.

Lane dividers are broken white lines.
Double white lines or single white line bordered by broken white line (already covered)
Solid white line with hatch markings or chevrons (already covered)
Single solid white line is edge of carriageway. It has no other meaning.


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#33 09-02-09 01:34:37

Makem Drive
Verified Member
Registered: 27-06-08
Posts: 197

Re: Solid White Lines

If you are driving up a slip road, in lane 2, where the centre line between the two lanes is broken, and then becomes a solid white line, this means that lane 2 has ended AT THIS POINT, you should not then cross back into the lane on your left. If you are still in lane 1 at this point then you have a solid line on your right and your left. This means you are on a separate carriageway, you should then stay on this carriageway until the line on your right becomes broken again.

I can see where you are coming from on this. You are classing it as 2 carriageways on one physical road whereas I was calling it a lane divider as at that point you could well be up to 1/2 mile before the merge point. I have never heard of that situation classed as 2 carriageways. Can you point me to anywhere in the HC or other official site that confirm what you are saying? Can anyone else confirm this?

As it has already been pointed out I know the rules but if a driver crosses that line to move into the other lane/carriageways, can they be fined for 'crossing the line' as you could if it were a double line or would it be another offence (or just a rollicking).

If you look at the r/b link at the 3 o'clock entrance where there is a solid white line as you approach this separates traffic turning left from traffic turning right

A line as wide as that one is usually quite high (similar to a painted mini-RBT) & not the 100mm (standard width/height) line I am referring to although it does exactly the same job. I had not commented on that line but in hindsight I should have. I had concentrated on the normal width lines on the left that has the chevrons between. Rub out the chevrons & 1 line for what I was saying. Again can you be fined for 'crossing the line' as you could if it were a double line or would it be another offence (or just a rollicking).

I have never intentionally (and to my knowledge, actually) crossed these lines as I have always known what they were for but in my time seen many other drivers doing just that. I will continue to teach pupils correctly but it's nice to know the legalities as well so I can pass that knowledge on.

Thanks for a much more constructive post Tony.


Ps.

I understand from Kevins post that depending on the regs. that allows those lines fines may or may not by applied so it is a 'don't cross, you may get fined' answer rather than a cut & dried 'yes or No' one.

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#34 09-02-09 08:04:47

tony adi
Verified Member
From: Selby
Registered: 12-05-08
Posts: 1,233
Website

Re: Solid White Lines

The only legal use of single solid white line is to show edge of carriageway. Variations on width are permitted.

I have absolutely no idea why kevin thinks that a local road act can override RTA and TSRGD. Not sure if he's saying that local authoraties can put what they like on road, but they can't.

The reason why nobody can find you any other answer is none exists.


There is no need to get into complicated legislation if you look at road markings from H/C here http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTr … /index.htm
it shows quite clearly single white line is edge of carriageway (simplified as edge line in h/c) Sometimes you have two edge lines one on the right of one carriageway and one on the left of the other. In between these lines you sometimes get chevrons. There is legislation that makes it an offence to cross the chevrons. Any other markings (hatchings etc) are should not cross.

Drive down any road and you have two edge lines one on your left and one on your right, usually with a centre line in between.

All double white lines do is create two carriageways, both carriageways have a solid line on the left and right. The law says you can't cross these lines (simplified I know there are exceptions)

There are specific rules on chevrons and double white lines. At all other times the use of single white line is to show edge of carriageway. There is no law that says you cannot cross the edge of carriageway line. Whether or not you should? that debate will go on for ever.


www.selbydriving.co.uk

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“Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same
function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy
state of things.”
~ Winston Churchill

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#35 09-02-09 12:48:40

hector
Verified Member
From: Manchester
Registered: 04-04-06
Posts: 2,097
Website

Re: Solid White Lines

Excellent post above, just to add further any white line that shouldnt be crossed specifically must be preceded by a white throwback arrow. Otherwise it can!


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